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God, as We Know it, Debunked or Not?

CrabCake said:
This:


Remains untrue.

Lazarus has nothing to do with where "bible people" get "born again".
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How do you know? Being brought back to life by Jesus sure sounds like being born again to me.
 
calamity said:
How do you know? Being brought back to life by Jesus sure sounds like being born again to me.
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1. I know the bible
2. I can read
3. I know Church history

It comes from here:
John 3:3-8
Jesus replied, “I tell you the truth, unless you are born again, you cannot see the Kingdom of God.”
“What do you mean?” exclaimed Nicodemus. “How can an old man go back into his mother’s womb and be born again?”
Jesus replied, “I assure you, no one can enter the Kingdom of God without being born of water and the Spirit.Humans can reproduce only human life, but the Holy Spirit gives birth to spiritual life. So don’t be surprised when I say, ‘You must be born again.’ The wind blows wherever it wants. Just as you can hear the wind but can’t tell where it comes from or where it is going, so you can’t explain how people are born of the Spirit.”

This isn't a matter of opinion. It is a fact that this is where the term born again comes from. This isn't something for which there is great debate. We can trace the origins of the term to the beginning of the evangelical movement and see its roots clearly spelled out in the scripture above. It has nothing to do with Lazarus. If you disagree with where the term comes from, you don't have a difference of opinion, you are just wrong about the facts.

Claiming that the term born again comes from Lazarus' resurrection betrays a profound ignorance of Christianity.
 
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CrabCake said:
Huh?

The term born again has nothing to do with Lazarus. It comes from here:
John 3:2-8
This man came to Jesus by night and said to him, “Rabbi, we know that you are a teacher come from God, for no one can do these signs that you do unless God is with him.”*Jesus answered him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.” Nicodemus said to him, “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother's womb and be born?” Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear its sound, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit.”
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There are a number of people who claim that is a mistranslated, and the actual translation is 'born from above'.
 
RAMOSS said:
There are a number of people who claim that is a mistranslated, and the actual translation is 'born from above'.
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I think I actually like that term better. However, "born again" seems to fit better with Nicodemus' follow-up question "How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother's womb and be born?".

Nevertheless, I think the bigger myth with this passage is the idea that "see the kingdom of God" means "go to heaven". But that's for another time...
 
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