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The big hole in the cosmological argument

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Masterhawk

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many creationists say that there's no way that the universe could have brought itself into existence so the christian God did it (they don't even say other possibilities such as the force, Brahma, or even other gods). This argument can be destroyed with this question:


If everything needs a beginning, what created God?

Now I don't say this to completely rule out the supernatural or a hidden designer but if you want to prove that a god exists, please don't argue from the lack of proof against you. When a scientific hypothesis lacks real evidence, it is placed on a shelf until either A. it receives enough proof to be promoted to a scientific theory or B. it is debunked and is thrown out.
 
Masterhawk said:
many creationists say that there's no way that the universe could have brought itself into existence so the christian God did it (they don't even say other possibilities such as the force, Brahma, or even other gods). This argument can be destroyed with this question:


If everything needs a beginning, what created God?

Now I don't say this to completely rule out the supernatural or a hidden designer but if you want to prove that a god exists, please don't argue from the lack of proof against you. When a scientific hypothesis lacks real evidence, it is placed on a shelf until either A. it receives enough proof to be promoted to a scientific theory or B. it is debunked and is thrown out.
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No one knows.

God has revealed where we came from but he hasn't told anyone where He came from

So your guess is as good as any
 
Mac77 said:
God has revealed where we came from but he hasn't told anyone where He came from
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Strange he'd leave out an important detail like that but make sure his position on two dudes being together was crystal clear.

But hey, as a Omnipotent, omnipresent and omniscient being capable of creating infinity itself... You gotta have priorities.
 
Jetboogieman said:
Strange he'd leave out an important detail like that but make sure his position on two dudes being together was crystal clear.

But hey, as a Omnipotent, omnipresent and omniscient being capable of creating infinity itself... You gotta have priorities.
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Why aren't we praising god's god? After all he gave us god. Wait... who created God's god's god?
 
CMPancake said:
Why aren't we praising god's god? After all he gave us god. Wait... who created God's god's god?
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320x240.jpg
 
The notion that 'everything must have a cause' is deeply mistaken. Reality doesn't have to be caused by anything (in fact, I'd argue that's incoherent). Reality may simply be...for no reason (however unsatisfying this may be to we homo sapiens whom are primed by evolution to view our world through a lens of cause and effect). Being does not entail having a cause. That's a leap of induction.

Adding 'God' to the equation doesn't resolve any of these philosophical questions.
 
Masterhawk said:
many creationists say that there's no way that the universe could have brought itself into existence so the christian God did it (they don't even say other possibilities such as the force, Brahma, or even other gods). This argument can be destroyed with this question:


If everything needs a beginning, what created God?

Now I don't say this to completely rule out the supernatural or a hidden designer but if you want to prove that a god exists, please don't argue from the lack of proof against you. When a scientific hypothesis lacks real evidence, it is placed on a shelf until either A. it receives enough proof to be promoted to a scientific theory or B. it is debunked and is thrown out.
Click to expand...

Your question has been asked by myself many times and I believe many others asked it too.But This is why we call it 'belief'.This is beyond logic ...
 
Jetboogieman said:
Strange he'd leave out an important detail like that but make sure his position on two dudes being together was crystal clear.

But hey, as a Omnipotent, omnipresent and omniscient being capable of creating infinity itself... You gotta have priorities.
Click to expand...

Does God's policy on sexual perversion trouble you?

I don't think we have to know everything God knows even if it were possible.
 
Questions as to the beginning or the ending are beyond us just as what is behind the wall at the end of the universe. It is simply beyond our paygrade.

Trying to understand infinity can drive you crazy. Thankfully people over time have came up with fantasy religions to explain it.

Our existence here is so short that each of us are equal to the life of a snowflake in the whole scheme of things. Sometimes the thought of having some type of god would be comforting.
 
Masterhawk said:
many creationists say that there's no way that the universe could have brought itself into existence so the christian God did it (they don't even say other possibilities such as the force, Brahma, or even other gods). This argument can be destroyed with this question:


If everything needs a beginning, what created God?

Now I don't say this to completely rule out the supernatural or a hidden designer but if you want to prove that a god exists, please don't argue from the lack of proof against you. When a scientific hypothesis lacks real evidence, it is placed on a shelf until either A. it receives enough proof to be promoted to a scientific theory or B. it is debunked and is thrown out.
Click to expand...

It's turtles all the way down
 
Mac77 said:
No one knows.

God has revealed where we came from but he hasn't told anyone where He came from

So your guess is as good as any
Click to expand...

'God' is a fiction. If the people who invented him were a bit less lazy they would pretend they knew where he came from. Why leave a story unfinished?
 
Masterhawk said:
many creationists say that there's no way that the universe could have brought itself into existence so the christian God did it (they don't even say other possibilities such as the force, Brahma, or even other gods). This argument can be destroyed with this question:


If everything needs a beginning, what created God?
Click to expand...

Obviously it's not, because this question has been known for some time, and the concept of Gods are still around. It's in fact easy to get around.

Gods are magical. They're infinite and have always existed.

And there you have it. When you're dealing with magic, you can make it be whatever you want it to be.
 
This is like asking "what does pink smell like"

When Moses ask God to reveal his, God said "I am". No where in the Bible does God say where he is from or how he came into existence. Nor does it say God created Jesus.

We can only assume God [and Jesus] are uncreated and uncaused.
 
WCH said:
This is like asking "what does pink smell like"

When Moses ask God to reveal his, God said "I am". No where in the Bible does God say where he is from or how he came into existence. Nor does it say God created Jesus.

We can only assume God [and Jesus] are uncreated and uncaused.
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which means you dont need them any more becase things can just exist

which dosent disprove the idea of gods but wrecks this argument for ther necessary existence
 
blarg said:
which means you dont need them any more becase things can just exist

which dosent disprove the idea of gods but wrecks this argument for ther necessary existence
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Puny humans don't get to decide that.
 
Sweden said:
'

God' is a fiction.

If the people who invented him were a bit less lazy they would pretend they knew where he came from. Why leave a story unfinished?
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Ok if you say so

But with all the unanswered questions about the existence of the universe the Bible makes more sense than anything else out there
 
Mac77 said:
Does God's policy on sexual perversion trouble you?.
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How would a cosmological being, capable of creating an infinite amount of galaxies, even conceptualize the idea of being angry one dude put his thingy in another dude?

Maybe God was gay, but his step-father God was a Republican, sent him to conversion therapy and it's one of those self loathing things?

Again as part of the OP, we seem so sure God really hates gays but he was scant on details about his origins, understandably so I guess.
 
WCH said:
Puny humans don't get to decide that.
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um true not that it ever stops you

and to be clear we are talking about if a god exists or not

i agree are feelings dont determine that

but we can determine that we dont need an uncaused god to kick off cause and effect if things can happen without cause
 
Mac77 said:
Ok if you say so

But with all the unanswered questions about the existence of the universe the Bible makes more sense than anything else out there
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um how so?
 
Mac77 said:
Ok if you say so

But with all the unanswered questions about the existence of the universe the Bible makes more sense than anything else out there
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It's a matter of opinion. The bible, with its complete lack of scientific insight, makes no sense at all about anything whatsoever. Imo.
 
Jetboogieman said:
How would a cosmological being, capable of creating an infinite amount of galaxies, even conceptualize the idea of being angry one dude put his thingy in another dude?

Maybe God was gay, but his step-father God was a Republican, sent him to conversion therapy and it's one of those self loathing things?

Again as part of the OP, we seem so sure God really hates gays but he was scant on details about his origins, understandably so I guess.
Click to expand...

Or maybe gays are just pissed at God because He does not approve of perverts
 
Mac77 said:
Or maybe gays are just pissed at God because He does not approve of perverts
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I am because it doesn't make sense.

God creates gays and tells the rest of humanity to kill them if they act on it... What on Earth would God do that for?

His own sick amusement?

Or is it more reasonable to assume he doesn't exist?

I think so.
 
Jetboogieman said:
I am because it doesn't make sense.

God creates gays and tells the rest of humanity to kill them if they act on it... What on Earth would God do that for?

His own sick amusement?

Or is it more reasonable to assume he doesn't exist?

I think so.
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The Bible says that God gave us free will

We are not robots

But with free will comes responsibility for our actions and homosexuals are acting contrary to Nature
 
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