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Why try to find "the" alligator?

Fletch said:
Why didn't the alligator eat the baby? Anyone know?
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Reptiles do not have teeth that facilitate tearing apart prey that are too large to swallow whole. He literally bit off more than he could chew.
 
The reason to find the gator is to make sure no other victims are drowned by the animal.
Generally, Disney relocates not destroys gators from my understanding though in this case they may destroy the animal in order to pander to their customers (which as cold as it may seem is rather understandable).
We also have a time honored tradition, whether it makes sense or not, to kill animals that have become "man eaters".
At least this is not in a time when I believe gators are endangered in Florida (threatened status last I heard which means you can't just hunt them but Government program can control their population/location).
 
iguanaman said:
It is not natural for alligators to prey on humans and it is very rare.
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That's not really true.

Fatal attacks are rare but alligator attack humans occur on average a dozen or more times a year in both Florida and Louisiana.

They're opportunistic predators, and while they don't deliberately stalk and hunt humans it's pretty well known that when you enter the alligators' natural habitat there's a fair to middlin' chance that if you replicate alligator prey behavior (like coming down to the waters edge for what appears, to the alligator, to be a quick drink) an alligator might get it in his head to treat you like prey.

it's pretty much common sense.

I've fished all over Florida and you always need to be mindful of possible alligator or snake presence when fishing fresh water.

Those that do must be destroyed because they have lost their natural fear of humans and will attack again.
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That's not necessarially true in this case.

It isn't as though the alligator stalked a six foot tall, two hundred pound man and made a deliberate attack.

It's a case of a tiny little kid blundering in to the alligator's habitat and doing, as I said above, exactly the kind of thing that alligators look for in their prey.

The gorilla is a entirely different story as they are far more intelligent relatives of humans and are an endangered species. That killing could have been avoided.
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That is idiotic nonsense.

You're talking about a small boy literally in the hands of a full grown silverback gorilla.

The fact that the gorilla hadn't hurt or killed the boy at the time he was shot is no indication at all that he wouldn't have shortly, especially if the zoo had done something stupid like shot him with a tranquilizer, which would have startled and injured him and would not have had an immediate drop-dead effect.

Gorillas, as you say, are "intelligent relatives of humans" in relation to, say, alligators, but they're not exactly a species that can be reasoned with, eg., "Hey there gorilla, why don't you just go ahead and give that boy back? We're practically neighbors on the cladistic tree you know!"
 
Harry Guerrilla said:
This human was not your typical though.
It was a small child, which could of easily been mistaken for regular prey.
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True, but the gator was in a area frequented by lots of humans which is not normally the case. For this to be the 1st such incident in 45 years it must be a freak you have to admit.
 
soot said:
That's not really true.

Fatal attacks are rare but alligator attack humans occur on average a dozen or more times a year in both Florida and Louisiana.

They're opportunistic predators, and while they don't deliberately stalk and hunt humans it's pretty well known that when you enter the alligators' natural habitat there's a fair to middlin' chance that if you replicate alligator prey behavior (like coming down to the waters edge for what appears, to the alligator, to be a quick drink) an alligator might get it in his head to treat you like prey.

it's pretty much common sense.

I've fished all over Florida and you always need to be mindful of possible alligator or snake presence when fishing fresh water.



That's not necessarially true in this case.

It isn't as though the alligator stalked a six foot tall, two hundred pound man and made a deliberate attack.

It's a case of a tiny little kid blundering in to the alligator's habitat and doing, as I said above, exactly the kind of thing that alligators look for in their prey.



That is idiotic nonsense.

You're talking about a small boy literally in the hands of a full grown silverback gorilla.

The fact that the gorilla hadn't hurt or killed the boy at the time he was shot is no indication at all that he wouldn't have shortly, especially if the zoo had done something stupid like shot him with a tranquilizer, which would have startled and injured him and would not have had an immediate drop-dead effect.

Gorillas, as you say, are "intelligent relatives of humans" in relation to, say, alligators, but they're not exactly a species that can be reasoned with, eg., "Hey there gorilla, why don't you just go ahead and give that boy back? We're practically neighbors on the cladistic tree you know!"
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Look I understand why they shot it, they panicked. That does not mean that it could not have been avoided. Gorillas are not carnivores or known to target humans. I feel it was unlikely that the child would have been harmed and there shoud have been a keeper that could have gone into the enclosure and rescued him. There was not.
A troop of wild mountain gorillas recently turned a typical ecotourism encounter upside down when the animals paid a visit to a tented camp in Uganda's Bwindi Impenetrable National Park.
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Video footage, now gone viral, shows baby and adult gorillas approaching U.S. tourist John J. King II, sitting with him, and even grooming him as he sits in quiet amazement—right next to a giant male silverback gorilla.
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Wild Gorillas Groom U.S. Tourist in Uganda
 
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Fletch said:
Why didn't the alligator eat the baby? Anyone know?
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Gators and crocs don't always eat their food immediately after killing it, particularly if it is on the larger side. They will often stash it away until they are ready to consume it.

I have no clue if that was the case here. It might have just been scared away by all the commotion.
 
When I was living in southern Florida, we shared the neighborhood with lots of alligators. Cats and dogs were lost frequently, but humans were never attacked.

The "normal" behavior of the alligators was to run away when a human approached. When an alligator did not run away, it was considered a nuisance and reported to the local wildlife management office for removal. Never saw one killed, they were always put in cages and driven deep into the Everglades. At least that is what they told us kids.

So... It would appear to be long standing practice to tolerate passive alligators, but treat non-passive alligators as a threat.
 
soot said:
That's not really true.

Fatal attacks are rare but alligator attack humans occur on average a dozen or more times a year in both Florida and Louisiana.

They're opportunistic predators, and while they don't deliberately stalk and hunt humans it's pretty well known that when you enter the alligators' natural habitat there's a fair to middlin' chance that if you replicate alligator prey behavior (like coming down to the waters edge for what appears, to the alligator, to be a quick drink) an alligator might get it in his head to treat you like prey.

it's pretty much common sense.

I've fished all over Florida and you always need to be mindful of possible alligator or snake presence when fishing fresh water.



That's not necessarially true in this case.

It isn't as though the alligator stalked a six foot tall, two hundred pound man and made a deliberate attack.

It's a case of a tiny little kid blundering in to the alligator's habitat and doing, as I said above, exactly the kind of thing that alligators look for in their prey.



That is idiotic nonsense.

You're talking about a small boy literally in the hands of a full grown silverback gorilla.

The fact that the gorilla hadn't hurt or killed the boy at the time he was shot is no indication at all that he wouldn't have shortly, especially if the zoo had done something stupid like shot him with a tranquilizer, which would have startled and injured him and would not have had an immediate drop-dead effect.

Gorillas, as you say, are "intelligent relatives of humans" in relation to, say, alligators, but they're not exactly a species that can be reasoned with, eg., "Hey there gorilla, why don't you just go ahead and give that boy back? We're practically neighbors on the cladistic tree you know!"
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Gorillas can communicate! There's Koko, who signs, and in Britain there's Gerald!

 
natsb said:
When I was living in southern Florida, we shared the neighborhood with lots of alligators. Cats and dogs were lost frequently, but humans were never attacked.

The "normal" behavior of the alligators was to run away when a human approached. When an alligator did not run away, it was considered a nuisance and reported to the local wildlife management office for removal. Never saw one killed, they were always put in cages and driven deep into the Everglades. At least that is what they told us kids.

So... It would appear to be long standing practice to tolerate passive alligators, but treat non-passive alligators as a threat.
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I believe it is entirely possible that given the location at the hotel, that the gator was fed by guests who being tourists were unaware how dangerous that is. That woudl explain it being in that location where there is normally no food for it and no reason for it being there. It is not unusual for tourists to find it amusing to throw leftovers to feed gators. It is a felony in Florida by the way.
 
iguanaman said:
I believe it is entirely possible that given the location at the hotel, that the gator was fed by guests who being tourists were unaware how dangerous that is. That woudl explain it being in that location where there is normally no food for it and no reason for it being there. It is not unusual for tourists to find it amusing to throw leftovers to feed gators. It is a felony in Florida by the way.
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I fed an alligator once, and only once. My mother caught me and had me in time out for a week. I think I would rather have faced the felony.

One time, my father caught me poking an alligator with a stick. My dad said: "That's not very bright son. Everyone knows you poke alligators with a bigger stick than that". Upon hearing this, my mother put us both in time out.
 
iguanaman said:
I feel it was unlikely that the child would have been harmed and there shoud have been a keeper that could have gone into the enclosure and rescued him. There was not.
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Of course there was not.

There never is and there almost certainly never will be.

Because of their enormous size, incredible strength, and the fact that they're wild-freakin'-animals, gorillas, for the purpose of zoo keeping, are classed with lions, tigers, and bears as among the most dangerous animals in captivity.

You will never see a zoo keeper get in to an enclosure with a silverback lowland gorilla.

What you "feel" is completely beside the point.

Zoo keepers work with gorillas either through cages, heavy steel fences, or after the animals have been sedated.
 
soot said:
Of course there was not.

There never is and there almost certainly never will be.

Because of their enormous size, incredible strength, and the fact that they're wild-freakin'-animals, gorillas, for the purpose of zoo keeping, are classed with lions, tigers, and bears as among the most dangerous animals in captivity.

You will never see a zoo keeper get in to an enclosure with a silverback lowland gorilla.

What you "feel" is completely beside the point.

Zoo keepers work with gorillas either through cages, heavy steel fences, or after the animals have been sedated.
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LOL You could not be more mistaken. Even in the wild, Gorillas interact with humans regularly and without incident. You have a strange misconception about these intelligent and gentle creatures. If that was not the case with this gorilla he must have been mistreated or ill. You should do some research. Here's a tourist in Uganda with gorillas. Not only is he unharmed he had the most uplifting experience in his life I bet. I'm extremely jealous. Would I do that with wild lions or tigers? No, they are carnivores and I might look like an easy meal. Gorillas are mostly vegetarian. That makes a huge difference.

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iguanaman said:
LOL You could not be more mistaken.
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I'm not mistaken at all.

Here's a tourist in Uganda with gorillas.
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Now provide a picture of a zoo keeper in a cage with one.

If it's SO common that, LOL, I couldn't be more mistaken, then it certainly shouldn't prove to be all that difficult to demonstrate.

Or just go out and find anecdotal evidence of it occurring somewhere.

Again, it doesn't happen.

People do not get inside cages with gorillas.

I must have read testimonials from at least a half dozen different zoo keepers from zoos all across the country discussing this issue in the wake of the Harambe killing and to a (wo)man they all said the same thing - it isn't done and if a human being ever does find him or herself in a cage with a gorilla, or if a gorilla gets out of a cage, its pretty much a "code red" type situation.

While I certainly and readily concede that the picture of humans running in to gorillas in the wild in Uganda is cool, but zoos are not the wild, and Cincinnati is not Uganda.
 
iguanaman said:
No one expected there to be a danger from alligators, they are not natural predators of humans. This was a freak accident and not negligence if that is what you are thinking. Lightning kills far more people in Florida than alligators.
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If you really believe that then take a slow stroll in those ponds .
 
CrabCake said:
I don't disagree that the signs should be more clear, but they wouldn't have helped in this case. The family was watching a movie in an area designated for that purpose by Disney and did not wander off of it and into danger.
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Any sign !!!! There were NONE !!!
 
Socrates1 said:
Any sign !!!! There were NONE !!!
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Specific to gators, true.

there were other signs stating no swimming or wading.

Got to ask. Do you need a warning sign to keep you out of waters known to possibly have gators in them?
 
Socrates1 said:
Any sign !!!! There were NONE !!!
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They wouldn't have helped in this case. So, why the anger? Proper signs would have made absolutely no difference in this case and this is the only attack in Disney's history. Therefore proper signs would have never made any difference throughout the entire history of the park. They would have saved zero lives. So, while I agree with you...there's no need for "!!!". Additional signs are a good idea, but one that would have never made any difference in any incident that has ever happened in the 45 year history of the park.
 
Socrates1 said:
If you really believe that then take a slow stroll in those ponds .
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Millions have done just that without incident over the 45 years that Disney has been in Orlando. That alligator was lured there by foolish tourists who had fed him before. I am convinced of that.
 
Since alligators go by size and motion and not by scent or sight, the same argument for killing a bear doesn't apply to an alligator. It's unlikely that the alligator now has a taste for human and wants more.
 
Dragonfly said:
Disney alligator attack: Investigation continues - CNN.com



Why? So it can be killed?
Which will change what?

Here's an idea, put signs around open bodies of water, rivers, creeks, and certainly on BEACHES that resorts own and manage that dangerous alligators may be present, but not easily seen.

This notion that a wild animal, doing what wild animals do, somehow get's a "taste for humans" is rather silly.

And how does anyone at this point "identify" the alligator that got the child?
According to news releases I saw the body was intact and only puncture wounds were evident. The child was not eaten.
Most likely drowned. So how does one "identify" the specific alligator?

Just seems really silly.
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Are you serious? They had no way of knowing the body of the two year old would be found intact. Alligators do tend to eat the prey they drag away. The usual outcome of a small child being dragged away by a predator is not an intact body. Identification would have been finding remains of the boy in the alligator's stomach.
 
iguanaman said:
Alligators naturally fear humans and attacks are extremely rare considering their numbers. Specific alligators that have lost that fear for whatever reason are dangerous and must be destroyed because they will attack again.
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Speaking of rare...this is probably the first time I have agreed with you on any issue.
 
iguanaman said:
It is not natural for alligators to prey on humans and it is very rare. Those that do must be destroyed because they have lost their natural fear of humans and will attack again. The gorilla is a entirely different story as they are far more intelligent relatives of humans and are an endangered species. That killing could have been avoided.
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Perhaps, however it's wrong to blame the zoo officials who shot the gorilla. It became necessary when the gorilla became very agitated from all of the screaming and shouting by the crowd that had gathered.
 
mike2810 said:
kill them all, let God sort them out. :mrgreen:

I see the removal of the animal or killing no different from how we handle other animal problems. Sometimes bears are just relocated, some times bears are killed when they become a problem with interactions with humans.

Not sure how wildlife officials could ID the alligator that took the child. Maybe through matching teeth to puncher wounds, possible dna from residual tissue left in the animals mouth.

It was a tragic accident. I feel for the family.
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Sure, that'll work. All we gotta do is just wade in, catch us a bunch of alligators, then check their dentures, collect a little DNA while we're at it

Then what? Make him sit in the corner for a few hours?

Animals do what animals do. Unless we exterminate the species, interaction with humans will result in the occasional tragedy.
 
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