• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!
  • Welcome to our archives. No new posts are allowed here.

The Case Against Reality...

Riveroaks said:
Well the "Philosophy" God from romantic philosophy (those philosophers who love God) is too busy to be preoccupied with humans.

And although Pantheism teaches that God is omnipresent, I don't believe it.

Omniscient -- yes.

Omnipotent -- not exactly.

Omnipresent -- definitely not.
Click to expand...

Your opinion lacks substance. A tiny pamphlet left in a bathroom stall could sum up your entire world view, and still have room for the Lord's Prayer at the end. An all-knowing god who is not all powerful.. ok.. how does he know everything if he's not EveryWhere? God's power and presence is like a soggy piece of bread i'd rather toss into the trash. Even the Bible is better than that..

Riveroaks said:
According to George Berkeley (1685 - 1753) if a tree falls in the forest and nobody is there to hear it, does it make a sound? Yes, God is there to hear it.

You should read more.

You should read philosophy.
Click to expand...

bovine-excrement-meter-animation.gif
 
grip said:
We don't know what reality really is without our ability to consciously perceive it.
Click to expand...

But we know it exists, even though we can't define what it "is".

We also know that human perception or observation of natural phenomena is an objective state - not a perception of reality.

Reality existed for billions of years before the solar system had even formed. We can't just start defining nature, reality or the cosmos around us, just because we, as a random biological species, happened to exist.
 
grip said:
It's a crazy theory. :lol:
Click to expand...

We are definitely still in the age where our intelligence thinks of the universe like the early humans thought of the sea... that there are monsters at the end of the horizon.

The important thing is that we have developed logic/reason, which is the only way for our human intelligence to acknowledge reality, even in the most restrictive sense of acknowledgement.
 
Cally said:
Your opinion lacks substance. A tiny pamphlet left in a bathroom stall could sum up your entire world view, and still have room for the Lord's Prayer at the end. An all-knowing god who is not all powerful.. ok.. how does he know everything if he's not EveryWhere? God's power and presence is like a soggy piece of bread i'd rather toss into the trash. Even the Bible is better than that..



bovine-excrement-meter-animation.gif
Click to expand...

I surmise that you have not read much philosophy.
 
grip said:
This doesn't make sense, because any force or Being that is Omni-anything is Omni-everything. A being that is infinite is also eternal, because it has no beginning or ending. If it creates everything, then it's aware of everything and how it's made. If its force is everywhere, then it's all powerful etc.





Physics will never achieve a 'theory of everything', until they include the observer as part of the solution, with the observed. Reality is an interaction between what the human senses and our reasoning. Our very interaction with physical reality changes it thru our perception. For example the old conundrum, "If a tree falls in a forest and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound?" The answer would be, it makes the concussive force in the air capable of creating noise but if no ear hears it, then no sound is perceived. So creatures have changed the very nature of reality by developing a unique feature to interact with it through hearing as ears.

It's similar with quantum mechanics as Schrodinger's cat paradox or a particle wave function collapse that the universe is affected or possibly brought into focus by the act of being observed. The interaction of a creature sensing a vast array of information, through the limited senses, acts as a conscious focal point to give an otherwise unbounded dimension a point in space and time to coordinate and center itself. A way of separating and forming the boundaries between the endless blurry potential into finite definition.

It could be that only consciousness is actually real and unchanging, while physical existence is an extension of our perception as a continuously moving simulation. The universe, through nature, is a movie being played and our minds are the screen on which it's viewed. Maybe?
Click to expand...

Well philosophy is merely informed rational logical speculation.

And that's what the philosophers have philosophized.
 
Paralogic said:
They are all wrong. How do they explain quantum entanglement? They can't because they were just not aware of what we are aware of now.

Their intellect is not in question. Their statements and claims are, though, because all Philosophy has to be aware of Physics in order to be potentially relevant to reality.
Click to expand...

I am not wild about the various quantum theories. They mostly seem like pseudo science to me and to many other philosophers and historians.
 
CLAX1911 said:
This is a catch 22 is prescription reality or is reality perceived?
Click to expand...

I always found that the real good prescriptions altered the perception of reality.
 
CLAX1911 said:
Did they alter your prescription to be more or less accurate how do you know?
Click to expand...

No idea!!!!

There is a story (urban legend??) about one of the writers who liked getting high on laughing gas, and used to have wonderful insights when he was on it. He couldn't remember what they were, so he decieded to make sure he had a pad and pen when he did it next. When he wrote down his very insightful thought, when he sobered up, he looked at what he wrote and it said 'This stuff smells BAD'
 
RAMOSS said:
No idea!!!!

There is a story (urban legend??) about one of the writers who liked getting high on laughing gas, and used to have wonderful insights when he was on it. He couldn't remember what they were, so he decieded to make sure he had a pad and pen when he did it next. When he wrote down his very insightful thought, when he sobered up, he looked at what he wrote and it said 'This stuff smells BAD'
Click to expand...
Sometimes simple statements seem profound while high
 
Riveroaks said:
I am not wild about the various quantum theories. They mostly seem like pseudo science to me and to many other philosophers and historians.
Click to expand...

You will have to accept them as long as logic and experiments confirm the quantum theories, as wild and improbable as they seem. Reality is not human-subjective. Humans are irrelevant to the universe. ( Cosmological Reality - axiom no 1)
 
Paralogic said:
You will have to accept them as long as logic and experiments confirm the quantum theories, as wild and improbable as they seem. Reality is not human-subjective. Humans are irrelevant to the universe. ( Cosmological Reality - axiom no 1)
Click to expand...

Actually, he will have to accept he will never see that response, since he's banned.
 
RAMOSS said:
No idea!!!!

There is a story (urban legend??) about one of the writers who liked getting high on laughing gas, and used to have wonderful insights when he was on it. He couldn't remember what they were, so he decieded to make sure he had a pad and pen when he did it next. When he wrote down his very insightful thought, when he sobered up, he looked at what he wrote and it said 'This stuff smells BAD'
Click to expand...

William James describes a man who got the experience from laughing-gas; whenever he was under its influence, he knew the secret of the universe, but when he came to, he had forgotten it. At last, with immense effort, he wrote down the secret before the vision had faded. When completely recovered, he rushed to see what he had written. It was: "A smell of petroleum prevails throughout.”
 
zyzygy said:
William James describes a man who got the experience from laughing-gas; whenever he was under its influence, he knew the secret of the universe, but when he came to, he had forgotten it. At last, with immense effort, he wrote down the secret before the vision had faded. When completely recovered, he rushed to see what he had written. It was: "A smell of petroleum prevails throughout.”
Click to expand...

That is probably the original source of the story I heard, much filtered out.
 
As I said.. humans are irrelevant to the universe. That's an indisputable fact.
 
Paralogic said:
As I said.. humans are irrelevant to the universe. That's an indisputable fact.
Click to expand...

Humans are part of the universe.. we are made of little pieces of the universe, and humans are relevant to themselves. So, what you claim is an 'indisputable fact', is in fact, falsified. It might be inconsequential in the overall picture, but locally,and in this instant of time, it matters to tiny little minute pieces of the universe.
 
RAMOSS said:
Humans are part of the universe.. we are made of little pieces of the universe, and humans are relevant to themselves. So, what you claim is an 'indisputable fact', is in fact, falsified. It might be inconsequential in the overall picture, but locally,and in this instant of time, it matters to tiny little minute pieces of the universe.
Click to expand...

Not to mention us being symbiotic creatures to our own biosphere. Who is to say how far that reaches into the "universe".
So, kids. No genocide of the human species just yet. Ok?
 
RAMOSS said:
Humans are part of the universe.. we are made of little pieces of the universe, and humans are relevant to themselves. So, what you claim is an 'indisputable fact', is in fact, falsified. It might be inconsequential in the overall picture, but locally,and in this instant of time, it matters to tiny little minute pieces of the universe.
Click to expand...

What you **** 18 years ago (assuming you're more than 18 years old) is also part of the universe but it's irrelevant to it.

The human-centric view of reality has been overshadowing science for as long as Reason was invented and acknowledged by the ancient Greeks. Religion is to blame, as always. It has poisoned the human mind for too long ... and it seems it's hard to get rid of it any time soon.
 
Paralogic said:
What you **** 18 years ago (assuming you're more than 18 years old) is also part of the universe but it's irrelevant to it.

The human-centric view of reality has been overshadowing science for as long as Reason was invented and acknowledged by the ancient Greeks. Religion is to blame, as always. It has poisoned the human mind for too long ... and it seems it's hard to get rid of it any time soon.
Click to expand...

You totally missed the point.
 
RAMOSS said:
You totally missed the point.
Click to expand...

If that fateful asteroid did not hit the Earth 65 Million Years ago, we would not be around to chat on the internet.

Human beings are irrelevant to the universe. <-- (axiom no 1 of my Cosmological Reality theory).
 
Cally said:
is there silence if a tree falls in the forest when there is no one to hear it? of course not.

Of course, interpretation of reality is subjective. There is much we don't perceive. If we did perceive it, reality would seem different. and yet it wouldn't be.
Click to expand...

The only thing which exists are pressure waves traversing the ground and air. Our ears and brains interpret the waves as sound. The low frequency waves can be felt throughout our bodies as movement. So, no, in the absence of an observer there is no sound when the tree falls.
 
There is an objective reality. If that were not so we could not be here to question it. Reality has existed for as long as there has been a universe, aeons before there was any intelligence or consious observer. We are part of the universe which has become self aware. We are not on the outside looking in, we are the universe.

The scope of reality is enormous beyond comprehension. There is as much space smaller than we are as there is space outside of us. Our sense of reality resides somewhere in the middle. A persective originating at another scale will view the universe totally different from ours.

The greatest wonder of them all is why anything exists to begin with. Total nothingness and absolute zero are/were imposibilities.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom