What is spirit?

Sweden · Mar 27, 2016

Paleocon said:
I base my belief that spiritual things exist on metaphysics. I doubt that he even knows what metaphysics is.

Metaphysics - philosophical study of things that have no objective reality. In other words a pointless game much loved by philsophers who would be better employed learning some science.

Sweden · Mar 27, 2016

Paleocon said:
Can you show me where your assertion about identity was scientifically demonstrated?

No, why should I? You are happy with all your spirit and god stuff.

Paleocon · Mar 27, 2016

Paleocon said:
I doubt that he even knows what metaphysics is.

Sweden said:
Metaphysics - philosophical study of things that have no objective reality.

I was right. In case you were wondering, metaphysics is reasoning from first principles, and is thus akin to mathematics. Like mathematics, it deals with non-contingent truths, whereas other philosophy and the empirical sciences deal with contingent truths.

Paleocon said:
Can you show me where your assertion about identity was scientifically demonstrated?

Sweden said:
No

Exactly.

William Rea · Mar 27, 2016

Definition; Metaphysics - Gazing at a navel until your eyes bleed.

RAMOSS · Mar 27, 2016

ashurbanipal said:
That's not what I meant. Spirit is what is left when all the stuff studied by physics is gone. Someone who believes spirit exists, in this sense, cannot consistently believe in the ontological completeness of physics.

If nothing is left, is anything actually there?

ashurbanipal · Mar 27, 2016

RAMOSS said:
If nothing is left, is anything actually there?

Clearly not. However, I don't understand the motivation for the question.

RAMOSS · Mar 27, 2016

ashurbanipal said:
Clearly not. However, I don't understand the motivation for the question.

From your definition, can it be shown that something called 'spirit' actually exists, or is that just something that is merely conceptual in nature.

Lethargic Aptitude · Mar 27, 2016

RAMOSS said:
In this context , what is spirit? How do you know what spirit is?? What real world phyisical reference can you use to explain what spirit is, or can it only be explained in metaphysical and conceptual terms?

It is imagination.

jet57 · Mar 27, 2016

Paralogic said:
There is a Jesus, but there is no Christ.

There are no gods either.

You're an atheist?

Frank Apisa · Mar 27, 2016

Sweden said:
Because one's self, one's identitity is a function of processes in the brain. When our brains stop, so do we. If you cannot understand this so be it.

May I take that to mean: It is a guess about the REALITY?

_Sal · Mar 27, 2016

Frank Apisa said:
May I take that to mean: It is a guess about the REALITY?

I'm pretty sure you can, since none of us really knows...cheers Frank!

Frank Apisa · Mar 27, 2016

_Sal said:
I'm pretty sure you can, since none of us really knows...cheers Frank!

That's the way I read it, Sal.

Thanks.

_Sal · Mar 27, 2016

Frank Apisa said:
That's the way I read it, Sal.

Thanks.

I seriously don't understand how any thinking human being can not admit that we just don't know

I search daily and question every piece of knowledge that comes my way but still, it's merely my belief

it is no more and no less worthy than another's

Lethargic Aptitude · Mar 27, 2016

_Sal said:
I seriously don't understand how any thinking human being can not admit that we just don't know

I search daily and question every piece of knowledge that comes my way but still, it's merely my belief

it is no more and no less worthy than another's

There is a difference though, between not knowing something and making up something because one does not know. And that is what a person is doing when they ask if gods, spirits ect exist. The concept of gods and spirits comes purely from imagination. There isnt anything that indicates otherwise.

_Sal · Mar 27, 2016

FreedomFromAll said:
There is a difference though, between not knowing something and making up something because one does not know. And that is what a person is doing when they ask if gods, spirits ect exist. The concept of gods and spirits comes purely from imagination. There isnt anything that indicates otherwise.

see actually it doesn't just come from making it up

it's okay that you think that because you have never had the experience...that's fine but it doesn't come from making it up, it comes from deep within and it is a knowing

at least the way I approach it anyway

it comes from various experiences where one knows things before they happen, with a certainty and then, it happens just as one was shown it would

it comes from a feeling of comfort and safety when one should feel anything but

it comes from feeling one and completely connected with things around you

it comes from looking at another and connecting on a level of knowing that can never be explained to another who has not had it

and the cool thing about it is connecting with others that "get it" and can take you deeper and further

and there is no need to have another believe it or to defend ones self because it doesn't matter

I don't need you to believe me, it's all okay

the fact that you haven't experienced it doesn't make me wrong

but it doesn't make you wrong either

Lethargic Aptitude · Mar 27, 2016

_Sal said:
see actually it doesn't just come from making it up

it's okay that you think that because you have never had the experience...that's fine but it doesn't come from making it up, it comes from deep within and it is a knowing

at least the way I approach it anyway

it comes from various experiences where one knows things before they happen, with a certainty and then, it happens just as one was shown it would

it comes from a feeling of comfort and safety when one should feel anything but

it comes from feeling one and completely connected with things around you

it comes from looking at another and connecting on a level of knowing that can never be explained to another who has not had it

and the cool thing about it is connecting with others that "get it" and can take you deeper and further

and there is no need to have another believe it or to defend ones self because it doesn't matter

I don't need you to believe me, it's all okay

the fact that you haven't experienced it doesn't make me wrong

but it doesn't make you wrong either

I had no idea what you believed.

I am not going to argue against what you feel. What you feel is personal, and while you may believe that you feel these things and it means a certain thing, I see no reason to believe that it isnt anything more than your imagination getting the best of you. And that would be rational of me since we both know that you are not going be able to prove that it isnt your imagination. ANd until you can do that it will remain just as someones imagination.

Frank Apisa · Mar 28, 2016

FreedomFromAll said:
There is a difference though, between not knowing something and making up something because one does not know. And that is what a person is doing when they ask if gods, spirits ect exist. The concept of gods and spirits comes purely from imagination. There isnt anything that indicates otherwise.

Both sides of the guessing game are imagination.

As Sal indicates...it is obvious we DO NOT KNOW the answers to these kinds of questions. People who blindly guess there are no gods in the REALITY of existence...who then demean people who blindly guess there are...are laughable.

We do not know the true nature of the REALITY of existence.

It may contain gods and it may contain things that make the concept of gods seem fairly benign.

WE DO NOT KNOW.

RAMOSS · Mar 28, 2016

_Sal said:
see actually it doesn't just come from making it up

it's okay that you think that because you have never had the experience...that's fine but it doesn't come from making it up, it comes from deep within and it is a knowing

at least the way I approach it anyway

it comes from various experiences where one knows things before they happen, with a certainty and then, it happens just as one was shown it would

it comes from a feeling of comfort and safety when one should feel anything but

it comes from feeling one and completely connected with things around you

it comes from looking at another and connecting on a level of knowing that can never be explained to another who has not had it

and the cool thing about it is connecting with others that "get it" and can take you deeper and further

and there is no need to have another believe it or to defend ones self because it doesn't matter

I don't need you to believe me, it's all okay

the fact that you haven't experienced it doesn't make me wrong

but it doesn't make you wrong either

How do I distinguish 'Spirit' from a purely emotional reaction? How can you tell that it's not merely a phenomena that exists solely in your brain, and has no external source, but is just biochemical in nature?

_Sal · Mar 28, 2016

FreedomFromAll said:
I had no idea what you believed.

I am not going to argue against what you feel. What you feel is personal, and while you may believe that you feel these things and it means a certain thing, I see no reason to believe that it isnt anything more than your imagination getting the best of you. And that would be rational of me since we both know that you are not going be able to prove that it isnt your imagination. ANd until you can do that it will remain just as someones imagination.

true enough...and thanks for being respectful :thumbs:

_Sal · Mar 28, 2016

RAMOSS said:
How do I distinguish 'Spirit' from a purely emotional reaction? How can you tell that it's not merely a phenomena that exists solely in your brain, and has no external source, but is just biochemical in nature?

we can not

and part of choosing to be a spiritual individual and exploring that path requires one to be realistic to the possibility that there is just us and things may turn out differently than we expect/hope/wish

One of the best movies that I have seen is called What the Bleep Do We Know. Check it out, it will give you food for thought.

RAMOSS · Mar 28, 2016

_Sal said:
we can not

and part of choosing to be a spiritual individual and exploring that path requires one to be realistic to the possibility that there is just us and things may turn out differently than we expect/hope/wish

One of the best movies that I have seen is called What the Bleep Do We Know. Check it out, it will give you food for thought.

Well, what the bleep we know is rather sophomoric attempt to explain things, and it also does 'appeal to quantum mechanics' because people don't understand quantum mechanics (even physicists). In my opinion, it takes what we don't know, makes logical fallacies, and appeals to the unknown, and adds new age concepts.

However, it's perfectly acceptable to say 'You can't'... leave it like that and move on .. because belief is most often not logical/rational, but rather emotional anyway. However, since it can't be 'proven', one way or another, I don't like the idea of imposing my beliefs on others. .. or having others impose their beliefs on me.

_Sal · Mar 28, 2016

RAMOSS said:
Well, what the bleep we know is rather sophomoric attempt to explain things, and it also does 'appeal to quantum mechanics' because people don't understand quantum mechanics (even physicists). In my opinion, it takes what we don't know, makes logical fallacies, and appeals to the unknown, and adds new age concepts.

sophomoric eh...:lol: alright then, the more you post the clearer your stance becomes

However, it's perfectly acceptable to say 'You can't'... leave it like that and move on .. because belief is most often not logical/rational, but rather emotional anyway. However, since it can't be 'proven', one way or another, I don't like the idea of imposing my beliefs on others. .. or having others impose their beliefs on me.

me neither yet you are quick to arrive at judgement regarding the behaviour that others will display without even questioning them so :shrug:

good luck with your search

ashurbanipal · Mar 28, 2016

RAMOSS said:
From your definition, can it be shown that something called 'spirit' actually exists, or is that just something that is merely conceptual in nature.

It depends on which assumptions you make and which methods you trust. The assumptions you make say something about how evidence is to be evaluated, and what ontological properties it is taken to possess.

RAMOSS · Mar 28, 2016

ashurbanipal said:
It depends on which assumptions you make and which methods you trust. The assumptions you make say something about how evidence is to be evaluated, and what ontological properties it is taken to possess.

Personally, when it comes to something like that. I like to see things that pass the objective data test. Can the data be shown to other people??

Paralogic · Mar 28, 2016

Frank Apisa said:
You are absolutely positive of that...HOW?

Not only me, you are positive about that too, and every human being that ever and will ever live.

We all know spirits do not exist because no one was ever or will ever able to prove that they do.

Simple as that.

What is spirit?

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