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If only those things for which there is empirical evidence are true....

Dittohead not!

Dittohead not!

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....then it follows that the star we call "the Sun" is the only one among stars as numberless as the sands of the sea to have a planet that harbor life. It follows that life on this little dust mote we refer to as Earth arose spontaneously and with no purpose whatsoever, then evolved to include creatures capable of contemplating their own existence, again to no purpose or end. It follows that the rise and fall of empires and civilizations are totally purposeless and of no more significance than the ebb and flow of the tides, or the fickle winds. It follows that one day the Earth will end, and that life will exist no more in the cosmos. If only those things for which there is empirical evidence are true, and nothing else, it matters not a whit what we say, do, or think.

So, is there more than can be proven? What do you think?
 
What empirical evidence is there that our star is the only one out there that can harbor life?
 
KevinKohler said:
What empirical evidence is there that our star is the only one out there that can harbor life?
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There is no evidence that any other planet circling any other star has life. The only empirical evidence we have for life is that life that exists here. Therefore, there is no empirical evidence for life elsewhere.
 
Dittohead not! said:
There is no evidence that any other planet circling any other star has life. The only empirical evidence we have for life is that life that exists here. Therefore, there is no empirical evidence for life elsewhere.
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Only because our ability to gather evidence is sorely limited.


Would you believe in elephants, if you lacked the ability to even go into your own back yard? Would you believe in organisms smaller than your own cells if there weren't even so much as magnifying glasses invented?


I contend that planet earth is THE empirical evidence of other life in the unknown vastness of the universe. There IS life here. There ARE other planets, even within our limited scope, that have conditions similar to earth, so far as we can tell.

You like to play lotto, don't you?
 
KevinKohler said:
Only because our ability to gather evidence is sorely limited.


Would you believe in elephants, if you lacked the ability to even go into your own back yard? Would you believe in organisms smaller than your own cells if there weren't even so much as magnifying glasses invented?


I contend that planet earth is THE empirical evidence of other life in the unknown vastness of the universe. There IS life here. There ARE other planets, even within our limited scope, that have conditions similar to earth, so far as we can tell.

You like to play lotto, don't you?
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There is empirical evidence for elephants as well as for microbes. There is none for extra terrestrial life. You and I might contemplate the cosmos and say, "Sure, there must be", but there is no evidence that there actually is. It's like the existence of a creator: We might say that there must be, but there is no actual evidence.

What if only that for which there is empirical evidence is true and nothing that hasn't been proven is real?
 
Dittohead not! said:
There is empirical evidence for elephants as well as for microbes. There is none for extra terrestrial life. You and I might contemplate the cosmos and say, "Sure, there must be", but there is no evidence that there actually is. It's like the existence of a creator: We might say that there must be, but there is no actual evidence.
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What is this evidence of microbes? Can it be seen with the naked eye? All we lack, the reason we have no evidence of life outside our solar system, is perspective. We simply have no ability to to gather and collect that evidence. Until we had perspective, there was no evidence that the earth was a sphere.

What if only that for which there is empirical evidence is true and nothing that hasn't been proven is real?
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Then the universe would be a pretty damn boring place.

Daring to dream, and letting our imaginations take us to places outside of the mundane, is why we have half the evidence for the things that we do in the first place.
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The only empirical evidence I need is the X-Files.

If Mulder says there are aliens? :aliens3:

Then you gotta believe! ;)
 
KevinKohler said:
What is this evidence of microbes? Can it be seen with the naked eye? All we lack, the reason we have no evidence of life outside our solar system, is perspective. We simply have no ability to to gather and collect that evidence. Until we had perspective, there was no evidence that the earth was a sphere.
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Microbes can be seen, observed, experimented with, and have proved to be the cause of many of our diseases. The evidence that they exist is pretty much indisputable. Perhaps one day the same will be said for extra terrestrial life, but right now it can not.

KevinKohler said:
Then the universe would be a pretty damn boring place.
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Yes, it would.

KevinKohler said:
Daring to dream, and letting our imaginations take us to places outside of the mundane, is why we have half the evidence for the things that we do in the first place.
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True, but what if those dreams are just inside of our own heads? What if none of it is real?
 
Dittohead not! said:
Microbes can be seen, observed, experimented with, and have proved to be the cause of many of our diseases. The evidence that they exist is pretty much indisputable. Perhaps one day the same will be said for extra terrestrial life, but right now it can not.



Yes, it would.



True, but what if those dreams are just inside of our own heads? What if none of it is real?
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That's the risk all dreamers take.



What if the world really was flat?
 
Captain Adverse said:
The only empirical evidence I need is the X-Files.

If Mulder says there are aliens? :aliens3:

Then you gotta believe! ;)
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The problem is, Mulder keeps going back and forth about it.


And the reboot? Oh my god, but they have strayed FAR from the original show. The last 5 episodes have sucked even more than the previous 2 seasons, and THEY were pretty bad.
 
it matters not a whit what we say, do, or think.
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There is evidence that I matter to me, and to others. But no, I do not "matter" to the universe, as the definition of "mattering" seems to be in relation to sentient beings.
Furthermore, I don't think your lot in life is dependent on the whim of others, your own self worth is important. When people believe they don't matter, and they don't value themselves, that's nihilistic and more likely depression. It's no more/less truthful, but it does appear to be a lot more painful.

In any case, you can add a corollary to "I think therefore I am".
"I think therefore I matter".

Which ties back to your original question. We don't "prove" that you matter to yourself...so much as it is a choice. Choice being hotly debated itself, but there it is. You get to choose to matter, or not...and no one can do a thing about it, not even the universe (well, not intentionally anyway!)
 
KevinKohler said:
That's the risk all dreamers take.



What if the world really was flat?
Click to expand...

There is plenty of empirical evidence that it is not. There is none for life elsewhere in the universe, at least not that we know of now. There is also no empirical evidence that there is any life before or after the one we're enjoying or suffering through here on this little bitty planet of ours.
 
Dittohead not! said:
There is plenty of empirical evidence that it is not. There is none for life elsewhere in the universe, at least not that we know of now. There is also no empirical evidence that there is any life before or after the one we're enjoying or suffering through here on this little bitty planet of ours.
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What do DO have evidence of is that the organic molecules that are the building blocks of life are common in the universe. We have even detected complex organic chemicals around other stars. Eureka! Complex organic molecules found in a young star system - LA Times

And, we have one example where that lead to there being the condition known as 'life'.
 
RAMOSS said:
What do DO have evidence of is that the organic molecules that are the building blocks of life are common in the universe. We have even detected complex organic chemicals around other stars. Eureka! Complex organic molecules found in a young star system - LA Times

And, we have one example where that lead to there being the condition known as 'life'.
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Yes, we do have one example, but one example only. We still don't really know.

Nor do we have proof of life after death.
 
Dittohead not! said:
Yes, we do have one example, but one example only. We still don't really know.

Nor do we have proof of life after death.
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Actually, we have two examples.. we have this solar system (which, btw, the atmosphere of titan is rich in organic molecules), and we have another system. We have one planet were we can say 'there is the chemical reaction we define as life, yes, but that is more than zero
 
RAMOSS said:
Actually, we have two examples.. we have this solar system (which, btw, the atmosphere of titan is rich in organic molecules), and we have another system. We have one planet were we can say 'there is the chemical reaction we define as life, yes, but that is more than zero
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If and when we find life on Titan, then life elsewere in the universe becomes one of the things for which there is empirical proof. Until then, it's all speculation.
 
Dittohead not! said:
If and when we find life on Titan, then life elsewere in the universe becomes one of the things for which there is empirical proof. Until then, it's all speculation.
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While that is true, we do have empirical evidence that the chemical building blocks are there.. that is not zero empirical evidence.
 
Dittohead not! said:
What if only that for which there is empirical evidence is true and nothing that hasn't been proven is real?
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Empirical evidence from who’s perspective and when? There are lots of things nobody had evidence for in the past that we do now and there are lots of things some people have evidence for but others don’t. By your argument, the truth would change as we discovered more (and occasionally as individuals with unique knowledge died), which is ridiculous.

In reality, what we’re able to prove will only ever be a subset of everything that is true.
 
HonestJoe said:
Empirical evidence from who’s perspective and when? There are lots of things nobody had evidence for in the past that we do now and there are lots of things some people have evidence for but others don’t. By your argument, the truth would change as we discovered more (and occasionally as individuals with unique knowledge died), which is ridiculous.

In reality, what we’re able to prove will only ever be a subset of everything that is true.
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By empirical evidence, I mean evidence we've already found. Of course, there are no doubt many things that are true, but for which we haven't yet found evidence, and no, of course finding new evidence doesn't change reality. Extraterrestrial life and life after death are two of those things that might one day be proven. Right now, however, they're just based on speculation.

People tend to dismiss ideas that have no real evidence behind them, and rightly so, but what a bleak and meaningless existence we have if only those things for which we have proof are actually true.
 
Dittohead not! said:
…but what a bleak and meaningless existence we have if only those things for which we have proof are actually true.
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Speak for yourself. I’ve got empirical evidence for the existence of beer and strippers! :D

If you want to stick with your bleak and meaningless philosophical discussion though; So what? If our existence is meaningless, it’s meaningless. There’s nothing we can do about it other than making the most of what we’ve got. Of course, if there is some kind of fundamental meaning to our existence, nobody seems to have made it clear to us all so we’d still be in exactly the same position. And even if there is some fundamental purpose to our existence, that our individual lives are part of some greater picture, it doesn’t really make any difference to the meaning of our day-to-day existence.
 
HonestJoe said:
1 Speak for yourself. I’ve got empirical evidence for the existence of beer and strippers! :D

2 If you want to stick with your bleak and meaningless philosophical discussion though; So what? If our existence is meaningless, it’s meaningless. There’s nothing we can do about it other than making the most of what we’ve got. Of course, if there is some kind of fundamental meaning to our existence, nobody seems to have made it clear to us all so we’d still be in exactly the same position. And even if there is some fundamental purpose to our existence, that our individual lives are part of some greater picture, it doesn’t really make any difference to the meaning of our day-to-day existence.
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1. LOL, that's certainly one way of looking at it. I think it was Ben Franklin who said that beer was proof that god loves us and wants us to be happy.

2. (bolded) maybe finding out the fundamental meaning is up to us.
Or, maybe the meaning really is beer and strippers. Eat, drink and be merry for tomorrow we die.
 
Dittohead not! said:
There is empirical evidence for elephants as well as for microbes. There is none for extra terrestrial life. You and I might contemplate the cosmos and say, "Sure, there must be", but there is no evidence that there actually is. It's like the existence of a creator: We might say that there must be, but there is no actual evidence.

What if only that for which there is empirical evidence is true and nothing that hasn't been proven is real?
Click to expand...

The existence of other stars and planets is empirical evidence for there being extra-terrestrial life.

Sure it's not strong evidence, and it's not proof, but think of it like this. Which is more likely, extra terrestrial life in a universe where there are no stars and planets, or in a universe where there are some.

If we can truly say that the latter is more likely than the former, then we can conclude that yes, the existence of other stars and planets is a form of evidence for extra-terrestrial life.
 
Nilly said:
The existence of other stars and planets is empirical evidence for there being extra-terrestrial life.

Sure it's not strong evidence, and it's not proof, but think of it like this. Which is more likely, extra terrestrial life in a universe where there are no stars and planets, or in a universe where there are some.

If we can truly say that the latter is more likely than the former, then we can conclude that yes, the existence of other stars and planets is a form of evidence for extra-terrestrial life.
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And the existence of creation is evidence for the creator, and, by extension, of a life after death.
But, it's a bit of a stretch to call that empirical evidence.
 
Dittohead not! said:
....then it follows that the star we call "the Sun" is the only one among stars as numberless as the sands of the sea to have a planet that harbor life. It follows that life on this little dust mote we refer to as Earth arose spontaneously and with no purpose whatsoever, then evolved to include creatures capable of contemplating their own existence, again to no purpose or end. It follows that the rise and fall of empires and civilizations are totally purposeless and of no more significance than the ebb and flow of the tides, or the fickle winds. It follows that one day the Earth will end, and that life will exist no more in the cosmos. If only those things for which there is empirical evidence are true, and nothing else, it matters not a whit what we say, do, or think.

So, is there more than can be proven? What do you think?
Click to expand...

Actually, if only empirical evidence is counted, none of that can be shown. If you include basic logic, then still, very little of the above can be shown, or even well-supported.
 
I agree with the first response ... the empirical evidence that this universe can harbor life is us. One of the problems we're going to run into is time. What if Earth was the first planet to spawn life? What if some planet a million light years away is at the stage that earth was at a million years ago (or even as we were 250 years ago)? Lots of life, but none of it is trying to find us, and we have no way of detecting it.
 
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