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Unemployment a problem? C'mon!

But if forced to labor for a living...everything would be okay?

Give it a break, Critter.

It is not necessary for you to make me seem wrong on everything.

It's not that I need you to be wrong on everything, but you need to allow that there's shades of grey you are ignoring.

As if it isn't possible for one to be happier at a job that requires their presence every day to toil over something than to sit at home unable to conjure up something meaningful to pass the time.
 
But if forced to labor for a living...everything would be okay?

Give it a break, Critter.

It is not necessary for you to make me seem wrong on everything.

By reading your words, you come across as the type that would rather sit back and whine, and tell others that the system is against them. The people who get ahead usually avoid people like you, and they go out and achieve.

Nobody owes you or anyone else anything.
 
It's not that I need you to be wrong on everything, but you need to allow that there's shades of grey you are ignoring.

As if it isn't possible for one to be happier at a job that requires their presence every day to toil over something than to sit at home unable to conjure up something meaningful to pass the time.

I suggested that if everyone were without a job to go to...they would find other things with which to occupy themselves.

You seemed to question that.

Then you actually asked me what they would do.

I furnished a list.

At no point did I suggest that some would not be happier with a job to go to. My point was...that if meaningful jobs for humans goes out of style...there are other things for humans to use to fill time...and in many cases, to do so productively.

I am not sure why you are so anxious to say I am wrong...as you are here and over at the other thread where we are talking.

In this thread, read the following posts:

#27; #31; #32; #43; #44; #47...and then these last few.

I do not understand what you problem is.
 
By reading your words, you come across as the type that would rather sit back and whine, and tell others that the system is against them.

I do not do anything of the sort...and I doubt my posts sound like that.

I am a very positive individual. I take responsibility for myself...and have since age 17, when I ran away from home and enlisted.

The people who get ahead usually avoid people like you, and they go out and achieve.

Bunk. I have motivated people as much as you or anyone else here to be responsible and self-suffient.


Nobody owes you or anyone else anything.

You are right.

But the day is coming where humans are not going to be able to "earn a living." The services of humans will simply not be that valuable. And I am suggesting we plan ahead...and figure out how to handle that eventuality.

You want to bury your head...do so. I suggest that to be a bad idea.
 
During my early reflections on the material I've presented in the "observation" series, an anomaly in the expression “unemployment problem” surfaced, an ironic, almost cavalier consideration of that situation.

“Unemployment” (having no work to do) and “problem” (being annoyed with that state of affairs) just doesn’t compute.

Unemployment, as I view it, is not a problem at all. Unemployment is the reason we all look forward to weekends, holidays, and vacations so much. Unemployment affords us all time to play more golf or tennis; to read, write, wash the car, tend to the house and garden, spend more time with the family, or lie around in a hammock doing nothing more productive than training a couple of trees to bend in toward each other. So, not only is unemployment not a problem, it is the stuff of dreams; an object of pursuit; the reason, if you will, for the long lines at the lottery counters.

Now, for sure, “not having enough money to buy the necessities and desires of life” IS a problem; an onerous one, and more than likely the problem we are actually considering when apparently discussing unemployment! They go hand-in-hand, do unemployment and not having enough money to get by—so much so that we tend to confuse one with the other—or worse, to consider them to be one.

BUT THEY ARE NOT! They are two separate problems, or more exactly they are two separate conditions. One, not having enough money, a very serious problem indeed—the other, unemployment, a much sought after blessing.

All of which may seem an idle exercise in semantics, of no particular practical consequences. But I argue otherwise. By exploiting the distinction between “unemployment” and “not having enough money”, I think we can show that “as you increase productivity using machines, unemployment increases” to be much less a "problem" than we are supposing it to be.

Work is good for a person. To make the state, rather than fathers, responsible for feeding their families, would be demoralizing (literally, it would make being good harder).
 
Work is good for a person. To make the state, rather than fathers, responsible for feeding their families, would be demoralizing (literally, it would make being good harder).

I've always thought that good was an idea, a thought, a quality trait ... how could it literally become harder? Was it soft to begin with?

I say that tongue in cheek, of course ... but in all seriousness, what do you mean by saying that the state being responsible for feeding families would "literally ... make being good harder"? What does that even mean?
 
I've always thought that good was an idea, a thought, a quality trait ... how could it literally become harder? Was it soft to begin with?

I say that tongue in cheek, of course ... but in all seriousness, what do you mean by saying that the state being responsible for feeding families would "literally ... make being good harder"? What does that even mean?

In Aristotelian philosophy, for a thing to be good is for it to be as it ought (e.g. A good pencil is one which writes well). So too a good man is a man who does what a man ought to do. Since a man ought to provide for his family's necessities of life, having this function taken over by the state reduces a man's capacity for good.
 
In Aristotelian philosophy, for a thing to be good is for it to be as it ought (e.g. A good pencil is one which writes well). So too a good man is a man who does what a man ought to do. Since a man ought to provide for his family's necessities of life, having this function taken over by the state reduces a man's capacity for good.

What about men without families and women with or without families?
 
What about men without families and women with or without families?

Men without families need to work to support themselves, though it should be mentioned that (barring some sort of higher calling, such as religious life), this is an inferior state compared to family life.

Women should be homemakers, they should not have to work outside the home.
 
Men without families need to work to support themselves, though it should be mentioned that (barring some sort of higher calling, such as religious life), this is an inferior state compared to family life.

Women should be homemakers, they should not have to work outside the home.
Do you know what century it is nowadays?
 
Don't threadjack. This thread isn't about your inability to keep time.

Women are equal nowadays and many of them out to work. That is is the reality of the situation. Saying that they should all stay at home adds nothing to the discussion.
 
In Aristotelian philosophy, for a thing to be good is for it to be as it ought (e.g. A good pencil is one which writes well). So too a good man is a man who does what a man ought to do. Since a man ought to provide for his family's necessities of life, having this function taken over by the state reduces a man's capacity for good.

So it would make the task of being a good man more difficult?

By helping men, who are already having a difficult time being good men, to be good men?

That's highly illogical, Captain.
 
Men without families need to work to support themselves, though it should be mentioned that (barring some sort of higher calling, such as religious life), this is an inferior state compared to family life.

Women should be homemakers, they should not have to work outside the home.


Oh, nevermind.

I see the problem.
 
It would be illogical to believe that unemployment would be a problem. Roughly 50% of the world's population is self employed. In countries like Laos it is c. 90%. For unemployment to be a problem there would have to be a requirement that everyone hires other people and that would be nonsense. If you are unable to find someone else to make it easy and provide you with a job you have to find your own work or source of income.
 
Women are equal nowadays and many of them out to work.

And that is a great travesty.

So it would make the task of being a good man more difficult?

By helping men, who are already having a difficult time being good men, to be good men?

That's highly illogical, Captain.

If the state just gives a family money, then the father is not providing for them, the state is.
 
If the state just gives a family money, then the father is not providing for them, the state is.

Thank you for restating that.

How does helping a man to do what he ought to do go against the idea that he's a good man doing what a good man ought to do?
 
Thank you for restating that.

How does helping a man to do what he ought to do go against the idea that he's a good man doing what a good man ought to do?

If the state is giving the family money, then the father isn't earning it through his labor. Supplanting the father's role like that isn't assisting him, it's replacing him.
 
If the state is giving the family money, then the father isn't earning it through his labor. Supplanting the father's role like that isn't assisting him, it's replacing him.

I see your unwillingness to help your fellow countrymen and raise you a strong society only stays that way by helping its weakest members.

And Jesus would disagree with you.
 
I see your unwillingness to help your fellow countrymen and raise you a strong society only stays that way by helping its weakest members.

And Jesus would disagree with you.

I'm not sure what your going on about. It's true that in a case of real necessity, the state should pay support to those families who need it, but living off charity is an inferior state of life compared to living off one's work.

Keep in mind that the subject here in UBI, not extreme cases.
 
I'm not sure what your going on about. It's true that in a case of real necessity, the state should pay support to those families who need it, but living off charity is an inferior state of life compared to living off one's work.

Of course it's preferable to be able to support oneself.

Keep in mind that the subject here in UBI, not extreme cases.

UBI?

And I don't remember reading anywhere that the OP had shifted to anything other than his standard ramblings, much less stipulated that they not be extreme cases.

But since you mentioned it, how extremely unwell-off does one need to be in order to receive Paleobenefits?
 
Of course it's preferable to be able to support oneself.



UBI?

And I don't remember reading anywhere that the OP had shifted to anything other than his standard ramblings, much less stipulated that they not be extreme cases.

But since you mentioned it, how extremely unwell-off does one need to be in order to receive Paleobenefits?

I got this thread confused with another where Frank was advocating UBI (Universal Basic Income).

Unemployed. I'd prefer that if state aid is a necessity, it be in the form of public employment rather than welfare (for able-bodied working age men anyway).
 
I got this thread confused with another where Frank was advocating UBI (Universal Basic Income).

Ah ...

Unemployed. I'd prefer that if state aid is a necessity, it be in the form of public employment rather than welfare (for able-bodied working age men anyway).

Well of course. But that's no reason to throw the babby out with the bathwater.
 
The problem with this is some people need to have a routine and do some work everyday, as that's how people get joy out of life, so for these people unemployment is a struggle mentally, as boredom is a very serious mental problem.
 
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