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Dying With Dignity

winston53660 said:
I have something called isolated left ventricular non compaction. The prognosis for this condition is fairly grim so far I have beat the odds and so far I would still do the heart transplant but I do not know how much farther I would go with that.
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I think that's totally different than say throwing everything at a malignant brain tumor that has metastasized. It's always a choice, even then, but the stats given about how many doctors refuse life-extending treatments seem to suggest that they know the grim realities of that.

Heart transplants and other treatments for congenital abnormalities like noncompaction cardiomyopathy are a different animal. IMO, those are reasonably treatable with relatively high rates of long-term survivability. Many cancers are survivable as well. I know someone who had esophageal cancer twenty years ago who is still alive today, for example. I also work with two people who are living fifteen years after prostate cancer. Both are healthy as horses and well into their late 70's--but that might be due to the fact that they still work and love it.
 
It seems "quality of life" over "quantity of life" is something a lot of people agree on.
Most people don't want to be in vegetative state, sucking their loved ones dry as a zombie for X years only to end up, more cases than not, in a permanent underground bed.
 
I just finished reading "When Breath Becomes Air" last night. An excellent book written by a neurosurgeon with lung cancer. It's a great book. I'm still letting it all soak in.

No spoiler from me. Just read it if the subject of this thread interests you.
 
Doctors know the odds. They know how human bodies break down and they understand suffering. They understand the body is a system.
 
calamity said:
Almost 90%...that blows my mind. Tells me I better get my DNR papers in order during the next few years.
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I've had my end-of-life directives for a long time. If I suffer any kind of permanent brain injury, I am not to be kept alive. If I suffer any kind of permanent physical disability, I am not to be kept alive. If I cannot enjoy my life, I don't want to continue living. But then again, I don't fear death.
 
Cephus said:
I've had my end-of-life directives for a long time. If I suffer any kind of permanent brain injury, I am not to be kept alive. If I suffer any kind of permanent physical disability, I am not to be kept alive. If I cannot enjoy my life, I don't want to continue living. But then again, I don't fear death.
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IMO, death sure beats lying in bed all day with tubes stuck in me like a pinata.
 
calamity said:
IMO, death sure beats lying in bed all day with tubes stuck in me like a pinata.
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While I tend to agree with you, my devil's advocate always goes back to, "what if being in a coma and kept alive with tubes sticking out of your body is the most wonderful feeling and experience ever?".

DON'T PULL THAT PLUUUUUUUUGGGGGGG!!!!!


____/\____/\_____/\_____/\__________crap______________________________________________
 
Critter7r said:
While I tend to agree with you, my devil's advocate always goes back to, "what if being in a coma and kept alive with tubes sticking out of your body is the most wonderful feeling and experience ever?".

DON'T PULL THAT PLUUUUUUUUGGGGGGG!!!!!


____/\____/\_____/\_____/\__________crap______________________________________________
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My luck I'll be dreaming about the redhead I dated in college but never had the pleasure of...right before they pull it.
 
RAMOSS said:
Now, I don't know how 'true' this is, but this is something to consider.

A 90 year old woman was told she has cancer right after her husband of 67 years passed away. Instead of going for treatment, she chose to go on road trip to do things she didn't before.

90-Year-Old Woman Opts To Travel The World Instead Of Getting Cancer Treatment

Woman, 90, chooses life on the road over cancer treatment - TODAY.com
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Hard time typing this, really hit home.

My Grandfather passed away last August. My grandmother is 91 and has stage 4, she is not seeking treatment. My grandparents married at the age of 20.
 
OpportunityCost said:
Hard time typing this, really hit home.

My Grandfather passed away last August. My grandmother is 91 and has stage 4, she is not seeking treatment. My grandparents married at the age of 20.
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You have my condolences. I suspect it is not an uncommon occurrence, and I appreciate the fact her son is taking her around with his rv. Now, that is showing the proper love and respect.
 
My little sister died Thursday. Her widower is now blogging details about how unprofessionally angry her VA/Sloan-Kettering doctor became when she rejected chemo, choosing quality of life over number of days. We all supported her decision unequivocally: There is nothing to be done for Stage IV pancreatic cancer, period. It's a death sentence without divine intervention. And it had already metastasized.

A few years ago our cousins had described their mother's death as a "good death," and now I know what they meant. My sister died a natural death that was entirely pain-free, surrounded by love, and exactly as she had wished.
 
nota bene said:
My little sister died Thursday. Her widower is now blogging details about how unprofessionally angry her VA/Sloan-Kettering doctor became when she rejected chemo, choosing quality of life over number of days. We all supported her decision unequivocally: There is nothing to be done for Stage IV pancreatic cancer, period. It's a death sentence without divine intervention. And it had already metastasized.

A few years ago our cousins had described their mother's death as a "good death," and now I know what they meant. My sister died a natural death that was entirely pain-free, surrounded by love, and exactly as she had wished.
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You have my condolences. It's always sad to lose family members, and I am glad she kept control of her fate, rather than give into the doctor.
 
Thank you for your condolences. I am grateful and relieved that this is over and so proud of my sister's heroic decision. I think our father's being a doctor and our mother a nurse stripped from all of us the too-common perception of doctors as omniscient "gods." She was always a stubborn-fool fighter, but pancreatic cancer is what it is. Everybody needs to make the informed decision for him or herself.
 
calamity said:
Interesting article with a rather interesting stat-line: A high percentage of doctors don't seek life saving treatments near the end of their lives.



They obviously know something we don't.
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A dignified death is a natural death surrounded by ones loved ones.

To murder a person on death's door is particularly heinous. That's not to say that extraordinary medical care should always be sought, but a patient should never be poisoned or starved.
 
Paleocon said:
A dignified death is a natural death surrounded by ones loved ones.

To murder a person on death's door is particularly heinous. That's not to say that extraordinary medical care should always be sought, but a patient should never be poisoned or starved.
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I'd agree with that.

But, a person who cannot eat on his own, and never will, should not be kept alive by artificial means either.
 
calamity said:
I'd agree with that.

But, a person who cannot eat on his own, and never will, should not be kept alive by artificial means either.
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Everyone comes into the world unable to eat on his/her own, if your advice were followed the human race would cease to exist. Feeding an invalid is not at all extraordinary.
 
I have a Living Will which I put together likely 20 years ago.

Pump as much medication into me as it takes to keep me comfortable.

No heroic means unless the outcome is going to be a healthy one.

There is a whole list of do you want: I put no for everything except comfort.

I have no fear of death.
 
_Sal said:
I have a Living Will which I put together likely 20 years ago.

Pump as much medication into me as it takes to keep me comfortable.

No heroic means unless the outcome is going to be a healthy one.

There is a whole list of do you want: I put no for everything except comfort.

I have no fear of death.
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Right, and I have no fear of crashing in an airplane. Of course, I'm not on one right now, either.
 
Critter7r said:
Right, and I have no fear of crashing in an airplane. Of course, I'm not on one right now, either.
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I have zero need for you to believe me.

If you want to discuss it, I am open to that. If you merely need to believe that death creates fear in all and have no desire to explore that further, I'm okay with that too.
 
Paleocon said:
Everyone comes into the world unable to eat on his/her own, if your advice were followed the human race would cease to exist. Feeding an invalid is not at all extraordinary.
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correct

however I hope you realize that feeding a dying individual is very different than feeding an invalid

feeding a dying individual against their will is abhorrent
 
_Sal said:
correct

however I hope you realize that feeding a dying individual is very different than feeding an invalid

feeding a dying individual against their will is abhorrent
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It is correct that if a person is dying right now, it can be rather pointless to feed them.

If however, they are by all indications capable of living for an extended time, if only they are fed, then they should certainly be fed.
 
Personal choice.....period.

If a person is miserable due to a non reversible illness, then they should have control of the off switch.

Don't give me all the bible crap either.
 
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