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Does ability change a person's intrinsic value?

Does ability change a person's value?


  • Total voters
    17
  • Poll closed .

sookster

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Another way to ask it, is if someone has more ability than that person, is he "more" of a person? It doesn't have to be pertained to money, unless you think it should be.

Poll is public. What say ye?
 
Another way to ask it, is if someone has more ability than that person, is he "more" of a person? It doesn't have to be pertained to money, unless you think it should be.

Poll is public. What say ye?

I wouldn't necessarily say so. A person can have all the talent, looks, smarts, etc. - but if they do nothing with it, they basically become nothing. On the flip side, look at Helen Keller - she lacked the ability to see and hear, but did great things and will be remembered for centuries to come. A lack of "ability," imo, can certainly be overcome with persistence and hard work.

I think it's all about what we do with what we are given/born with - that's what ultimately makes us "more" of a person. I think it was Edison who said: "Greatness is 10% inspiration and 90& perspiration." Or, something like that. :)
 
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They are worth more economically..... they don't have Chihuahua's as police dogs, so their value is useless for anything other than a lap dog...

A person with 100 IQ will never be a physicist to the point where they contribute with any major value....

There are certain things that limit people fundamentally by the limits of their potential.... which make them less economically valuable for those things
 
They are worth more economically..... they don't have Chihuahua's as police dogs, so their value is useless for anything other than a lap dog...

A person with 100 IQ will never be a physicist to the point where they contribute with any major value....

There are certain things that limit people fundamentally by the limits of their potential.... which make them less economically valuable for those things

Should we treat a person less because they have 100 IQ?
 
Should we treat a person less because they have 100 IQ?

You shouldn't treat them poorly of course.... don't treat anyone poorly.

But you treat them differently when it's relevant... You want value and you want people who give value... you choose friends/employees/ a mate Everything that brings value to you, and preferably you want the ones/things that brings the most.
 
They are worth more economically..... they don't have Chihuahua's as police dogs, so their value is useless for anything other than a lap dog...

A person with 100 IQ will never be a physicist to the point where they contribute with any major value....

There are certain things that limit people fundamentally by the limits of their potential.... which make them less economically valuable for those things

Ahhhhh..............the ole "IQ" myth is rearing it's ugly head again. IQ has nothing to do with intelligence or potential.
 
I’m not sure about the idea of a person having a singular intrinsic value in the first place. The value of something needs some kind of scale to be established and will generally be highly contextual and conditional. Any given individual will be of great value in some situations but a liability in others.
 
Another way to ask it, is if someone has more ability than that person, is he "more" of a person? It doesn't have to be pertained to money, unless you think it should be.

Poll is public. What say ye?

Ability for what? Way too vague pards.
 
Ahhhhh..............the ole "IQ" myth is rearing it's ugly head again. IQ has nothing to do with intelligence or potential.


I do not think this is so. High IQ is predictive of some things, low IQ is predictive of other. But neither predicts everything. And all predictons are ON AVERAGE - there will always be individual exceptions. Imo well designed IQ tests do measure something real and useful.
 
I’m not sure about the idea of a person having a singular intrinsic value in the first place. The value of something needs some kind of scale to be established and will generally be highly contextual and conditional. Any given individual will be of great value in some situations but a liability in others.

I agree Joe. Values will always be relative. Someone's value to his mother will be enormous, to his friend high, to a casual aquaintence quite low. How could it be otherwise?
 
I do not think this is so. High IQ is predictive of some things, low IQ is predictive of other. But neither predicts everything. And all predictons are ON AVERAGE - there will always be individual exceptions. Imo well designed IQ tests do measure something real and useful.

A person with high intelligence, and little education can measure low.

The same person with exposure to education can measure high.

Even the best IQ tests can only show a "current" measurement...........and not potential.
 
A person with high intelligence, and little education can measure low.

The same person with exposure to education can measure high.

Even the best IQ tests can only show a "current" measurement...........and not potential.

I hope you will excuse a personal story. I was a navy PO will minimal formal education when I passed the MENSA IQ test and joined. A new world opened up before me. Over the next few years I worked by myself, in my own time, to acquire qualifications which led, eventually, to a quite different career when I left the RN as a Chief at the age of thirty. So maybe that explains why my take on IQ measurement is very different from yours. That one test showed me my, previously unknown, potential.
 
Another way to ask it, is if someone has more ability than that person, is he "more" of a person? It doesn't have to be pertained to money, unless you think it should be.

Poll is public. What say ye?

Complicated question.

Let's assume you have two normal people, but one has an IQ of 100 and isn't particularly good at anything, and the other has an IQ of 150 and is a gifted mathematician, or artist, or whatever gets your rocks off.

Is the smarter, more talented person more valuable?

Depends.

You don't need talent to work at a soup kitchen, do you. You don't need talent to raise nice kids. You don't need talent give to charity, care about your community, or make people's lives better.

So, who's more valuable?

Depends. Who's nicer? Who's more motivated?

While it may be true that in terms of absolute potential, the gifted person is capable of achieving more, that doesn't necessarily mean they will. In fact, indolence affects the gifted at extraordinary rates due to their increased tendency to have a mental illness or learning disabilities (yes, learning disabilities). The ordinary tend to have a smoother, more consistent trajectory to their lives.

Now, let's say you've got either one of those two individuals, and then you have someone who is severely mentally disabled to the point where they require care.

I still argue that there is no clear winner in terms of who is worth more.

Humans are pretty sad critters on their own. Compared to most animals, we're relatively weak, slow, blind, deaf, and fragile.

We're smart. But in order to compensate for all those shortcomings with our smarts, we need lots of hands to put our vision into practice.

Where we thrive is in teams. In order to function in teams, we have to be empathetic creatures who, at least to some extent, care more about others than we do about ourselves.

Caring for the human who lacks our only survival advantage is a challenge. No, they themselves will never contribute to the economy or the library as much as most other humans will. But I'd argue they do contribute to humanity.

Caring for the disabled among us strengths our empathy and cooperation. And we've always cared for the sick and weak going all the way back to our cave days, much more so than most animals do.

And has anyone noticed that the more we care about them, the more we try to do right by them, the better our societies become?

Are we not kinder, more ethical, more peaceful, as our societies get more cooperative in caring for everyone, even the weak among us? On DP, is it not true that even many the most economically conservative posters believe that the disabled are entitled to social welfare?

Do we not enjoy helping the helpless?

And every once in a while, do we not discover that in helping the helpless, we unlock a hidden potential in them that no one realized was there for millenia?

Consider the severe, non-verbal autistic. They used to be people that we threw in institutions, or further back, simply abandoned to die.

And now, because we choose to help them, we are finding that they are capable of things like this.

Teen Locked in Autistic Body Finds Inner Voice - ABC News

A completely non-verbal teenager assumed to have the mind of a toddler, but as it turns out, she writes almost as well as I do.

Throughout history, children like this were lost to the world up until the last 40 years: the age of computers.

Sometimes, the disabled among us are not incapable. We simply haven't learned how to unlock their capability yet.

Whether or not this child, or any other disabled person, ever achieves as much as a normal person likely will, at the very least, is there not a value to humanity in the way we engage our empathy in caring for them?

Trying to rank humans on tiers is some complicated business. And ultimately, I think it is more worth our energy to simply do what we're best at: caring for each other.
 
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A person with high intelligence, and little education can measure low.

The same person with exposure to education can measure high.

Even the best IQ tests can only show a "current" measurement...........and not potential.

Sometimes other factors affect the results as well.

I know someone who tested at a 70 on an official IQ test, which is borderline intellectual disability -- similar to your average person with Down's Syndrome. I assure you, she is not intellectually disabled.

She is quite bright. But her ability is very unevenly distributed. She is gifted in some things, and has a learning disability others. As it just so happens, her areas of disability do a lot of damage on things like IQ tests.

She has had all the education a person could hope for, and was intelligent enough to do a hell of a lot with it. She was read to as a young child. She went to a good school district. She graduated with honors from a prestigious private university. She has a high-powered career at a marketing firm and she gets promotions practically every other week.

But she was also in special ed because she sees numbers backwards, and she could not do her job without a calculator for even relatively simple equations.

People like her are completely out in the cold on things like IQ tests.

In terms of measuring objective intelligence, IQ tests function best for people with both ideal education and relatively equal ability across all areas. But there are many, many people who don't align with either one or both of those things.
 
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I hope you will excuse a personal story. I was a navy PO will minimal formal education when I passed the MENSA IQ test and joined. A new world opened up before me. Over the next few years I worked by myself, in my own time, to acquire qualifications which led, eventually, to a quite different career when I left the RN as a Chief at the age of thirty. So maybe that explains why my take on IQ measurement is very different from yours. That one test showed me my, previously unknown, potential.

Good story, and good for you. You took advantage of the opportunity and ran with it.

Too many good people do not.

In my case, it was a Navy recruiter who wouldn't give up on me. He changed my entire life

I'll send ya a PM, so not to hijack this thread.
 
Another way to ask it, is if someone has more ability than that person, is he "more" of a person? It doesn't have to be pertained to money, unless you think it should be.

Poll is public. What say ye?

Conventionally speaking that seems a trivial question in that it has a politically correct answer in the context it is usually set. But it is not so simple.
It depends on what you mean by both terms. There are very different ways to define both. A third factor is the entity judging the value of the person. The person might have value to some entities but be a destructive force to others.
 
Another way to ask it, is if someone has more ability than that person, is he "more" of a person? It doesn't have to be pertained to money, unless you think it should be.

Poll is public. What say ye?

You want to say no philosophically, but we all know that generally speaking valuation in all of its forms goes up as a person's ability goes up. It is not just the ability to accumulate wealth and notoriety in a given society, but can be about excelling in a field of academia or being recognized for some accomplishment. Just a harsh reality about how we look at society vs. the person. Person A being "better" than person B, that comes down to judgement on some set of attributes and it is one that is made from time to time no matter how much we suggest that on a social level we are all equals. Sounds nice, but that has never really been realized now has it? Ability tends to be the one thing that transcends being everyone being equal.
 
Another way to ask it, is if someone has more ability than that person, is he "more" of a person? It doesn't have to be pertained to money, unless you think it should be.

Poll is public. What say ye?

I answered yes. I simply took this to mean would you ask person A rather than person B to do task X. If you need a lawyer, doctor, carpenter, plumber or mechanic then you are likely to seek a person with that specialized skill. It is not so much that you consider them to be more of a person, or that you should be considered less of a person, but you recognize that they possess a skill or talent that you do not.
 
Another way to ask it, is if someone has more ability than that person, is he "more" of a person? It doesn't have to be pertained to money, unless you think it should be.

Poll is public. What say ye?

Should we judge others by their utility?
 
Another way to ask it, is if someone has more ability than that person, is he "more" of a person? It doesn't have to be pertained to money, unless you think it should be.

Poll is public. What say ye?

what we value doesn't seem that intrinsic so no

but i do find myself thinking that people who create things and know more then i do are more of a person then i am
 
Good story, and good for you. You took advantage of the opportunity and ran with it.

Too many good people do not.

In my case, it was a Navy recruiter who wouldn't give up on me. He changed my entire life

I'll send ya a PM, so not to hijack this thread.

Thanks for PM. I joined just 16 as an Artificer Apprentice, Became an Ordnance Artificer (weapons engineer). Good that it all worked out fine for both of us ............ now if WWIII had started ........
 
Ahhhhh..............the ole "IQ" myth is rearing it's ugly head again. IQ has nothing to do with intelligence or potential.

It does...have a lot to do with it...it's not perfect obviously, but it measures raw brain power.
 
I voted "Yes", but that would be a highly qualified "Yes". Ability does change a person's value, but it does not define it. It is one of a whole lot of different things that determine a person's value, not the least of which is the fact that they are a living human being (which accounts for the vast majority of their value).
 
Is IQ the only measurement of ability? Doesn't it measure only one type of intelligence? I know for a fact modern science considers there to be multiple intelligence. So for example, empaths, are people that can literally "feel" what another person is feeling while they communicate with them, and a lot of them have social anxiety disorder. I think these people think there are something wrong with them simply because they have an "ability" that others do not.

But we seem to correlate intelligence to economic output, which isn't surprising given our culture. However, considering there are multiple intelligence, and that IQ scores do not measure all of them, is it not possible for someone to be intelligent and have ability but not be as economically strong because of the time we live in? For example, painters during the Renaissance.

Then there is to consider what "ability" or "intelligence" is derived from. Nature vs. Nurture right? Some people just don't have a chance to work at Google because of what they were born with, while others won't have that opportunity because of the neighborhood they live in even if they had the ability.

Could it be argued that everyone has some sort of intelligence to offer the world? I know a guy that works at the Wal-Mart docks, and his social skills are amazing. Everyone likes him, and I can talk to him with complete ease like everyone else. That may not land him the 1 million dollar job, but I would say that still makes him valuable. I would argue that different intelligence gets the spotlight so to speak in different eras.

What I am saying is I think people have different value, as to what they bring to the table of humanity, and certain traits gets more value based upon society at that time. However, I think everyone should be treated the same, regardless of their value, especially considering the minority of people that have the optimal circumstances of upbringing, and how society refuses to fix that issue based upon ideological reasons.
 
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