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Since gods do not exist, what do you believe is out there

ttwtt78640 said:
If God(s) exist then who/what created him, her or them? If one can accept that God was (or gods were) created from and by nothing then why can't matter, space and time have come into being (from and by nothing) in the same way?
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Interesting take.

Monotheism offers very little on any sort of history of God before deciding for whatever given reason to create our universe. Polytheism on the other hand had wild stories about the relationship of God to humans to time, but even then some concepts were not even in scope to consider. Origin for that matter was story, until systems of science forced the matter into explanations beyond that reasoning.
 
FluffyNinja said:
And I believe that if we are honest, we'll stop labeling things as "science" and "evidence' which really don't fit the definition. :shrug:
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If something does not fit the definition of science and if something is not evidence, it should not be labeled as such. Correct.
 
OrphanSlug said:
Interesting take.

Monotheism offers very little on any sort of history of God before deciding for whatever given reason to create our universe. Polytheism on the other hand had wild stories about the relationship of God to humans to time, but even then some concepts were not even in scope to consider. Origin for that matter was story, until systems of science forced the matter into explanations beyond that reasoning.
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There is not a single creation tale, including the Big Bang, which is complete. The best we have is some good guesses on what happened about 10**-32 after the big bang--and, even that throws in the theory of inflation which is highly suspect since it violates all known laws of physics.
 
calamity said:
The bible has enough error in it that we know it was not written by an all-knowing all-powerful being. That alone should be proof that it is just a work of fiction written by people with limited knowledge who lived in a far gone era. And, since it is a work of fiction, we can safely conclude that this "god" does not exist.
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If I, as God, tell you to "write a fantastic story, about 700K words will do nicely, but you must include critical points A through Q, and jazz it up a bit (get your friends to help if you must) to make it seem historically accurate, hell, even toss in some nearby towns and landmarks and make some future predictions including points D, F, I and J" then would you have done better?


BTW, only God could make a sentence (question?) that long. ;)
 
ttwtt78640 said:
If I, as God, tell you to "write a fantastic story, about 700K words will do nicely, but you must include critical points A through Q, and jazz it up a bit (get your friends to help if you must) to make it seem historically accurate, hell, even toss in some nearby towns and landmarks and make some future predictions including points D, F, I and J" then would you have done better?


BTW, only God could make a sentence (question?) that long. ;)
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I'd hope that god gave me better information so that I don't look like a fool in 2000 years when someone who has access to the internet can, in five minutes, fact check me and determine that almost everything I wrote is bull****.
 
calamity said:
I'd hope that god gave me better information so that I don't look like a fool in 2000 years when someone who has access to the internet can, in five minutes, read that almost everything I wrote is bull****.
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How odd, indeed, that God left out making the story internet friendly.

That, of course, brings up the last straw defense - God works in mysterious ways. ;)
 
calamity said:
A higher power is an interesting concept. If one exists out there, would it be reasonable to think it meddles in our affairs? Let me rephrase. Is it logical to think the higher power gave us the commandments, or is it more reasonable to believe they just came about by men who sat around and thought this stuff through?
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Just a portion of my reasoning behind not believing that one myth.

Why would humans be the grandest creation of a creature that created the universe?

Stars are far mightier than humans.The sun releases more energy in a second than humans have ever used. People used to worship the sun. Sun worship is at least a little rational. Everything you enjoy wouldn't exist without the sun.
 
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trollarc said:
Just a portion of my reasoning behind not believing that one myth.

Why would humans be the grandest creation of a creature that created the universe?

Stars are far mightier than humans.The sun releases more energy in a second than humans have ever used. People used to worship the sun. Sun worship is at least a little rational. Everything you enjoy wouldn't exist without the sun.
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I sort of like that. My take on what you wrote--if creating humans is the best this "God" can do, he mustn't be much of a god.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
How odd, indeed, that God left out making the story internet friendly.

That, of course, brings up the last straw defense - God works in mysterious ways. ;)
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That He does. In fact, had God not wanted us to question his existence, he never would have given us the Internet to begin with.

...unless sharing cute kitten pictures was where he wished we had left it. Maybe someone could rewrite that Apple story now by giving it a slightly modern twist.
 
Good questions, they are worthy of following IMO. But unless we have some evidence then we do not have grounds to make statements and commit the same mistake like the religious. A lie just so as to fill in the void would no longer do. As far as observations and math analysis show we can get up to this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ez1aDzwllT4

Some theories go even further to the infinite dimension.
 
What do you believe it is out there?

The question in the title demands a zero/sum or black/white answer. There are theories out there, some merit investing degrees of belief and others do not. Having 100% strong beliefs with this much data may pave the way for fundy thinking.
 
DDD said:
What do you believe it is out there?

The question in the title demands a zero/sum or black/white answer. There are theories out there, some merit investing degrees of belief and others do not. Having 100% strong beliefs with this much data may pave the way for fundy thinking.
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Meh...discounting the existence of "God" does not mean there is no room for some higher power, creator or what have you. It's just putting to bed the childish nonsense of gods, which there have been many thousands of throughout history. It is perfectly reasonable to say they are all fictitious characters.
 
DDD said:
Good questions, they are worthy of following IMO. But unless we have some evidence then we do not have grounds to make statements and commit the same mistake like the religious. A lie just so as to fill in the void would no longer do. As far as observations and math analysis show we can get up to this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ez1aDzwllT4

Some theories go even further to the infinite dimension.
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We can wax philosophically
 
Assigning "god" a gender or other characteristics similar to homo sapiens may be slightly narcissistic.
 
calamity said:
Meh...discounting the existence of "God" does not mean there is no room for some higher power, creator or what have you. It's just putting to bed the childish nonsense of gods, which there have been many thousands of throughout history. It is perfectly reasonable to say they are all fictitious characters.
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I'm curious, how does it become "perfectly reasonable" to completely dismiss the possibility of the existence of something which is presently beyond our ability to comprehend empirically? If early scientists, such as Leeuwenhoek for example, had adopted your narrow-minded premise, some of the greatest discoveries in human history may have never occurred. Abiogenesis is considered a "credible" concept and yet it is beyond our ability to recreate even a workable model for it. Why not dismiss it as well? Science has not even come close to creating a living cell, let alone an organism from any combination of inorganic matter and energy. All of the Hadron Colliders in existence have yet to provide a solution to the "spark of life" dilemma.
 
FluffyNinja said:
I'm curious, how does it become "perfectly reasonable" to completely dismiss the possibility of the existence of something which is presently beyond our ability to comprehend empirically? If early scientists, such as Leeuwenhoek for example, had adopted your narrow-minded premise, some of the greatest discoveries in human history may have never occurred. Abiogenesis is considered a "credible" concept and yet it is beyond our ability to recreate even a workable model for it. Why not dismiss it as well? Science has not even come close to creating a living cell, let alone an organism from any combination of inorganic matter and energy. All of the Hadron Colliders in existence have yet to provide a solution to the "spark of life" dilemma.
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'Artificial life' breakthrough announced by scientists - BBC News

World's first living synthetic cell created (Wired UK)
 
zyzygy said:
'Artificial life' breakthrough announced by scientists - BBC News

World's first living synthetic cell created (Wired UK)
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Read it. I'm assuming that you do understand the basis for abiogenesis? Don't be fooled by flashy study titles. These scientists required a living cell to recreate synthetic bacterial chromosomes which they then implanted into yet another "host cell". Abiogenesis requires taking completely inorganic material.....take your pick from the ol' periodic table........and then combining these elements with some introduction of energy in order to create a living cell. This wasn't even close. Nice try though. In all fairness it is interesting research.....albeit an "altering" of life in essence. :shrug:
 
trollarc said:
Assigning "god" a gender or other characteristics similar to homo sapiens may be slightly narcissistic.
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Also, assigning such a concept to every unknown and loophole is living in delusions and denial.
 
FluffyNinja said:
I'm curious, how does it become "perfectly reasonable" to completely dismiss the possibility of the existence of something which is presently beyond our ability to comprehend empirically?
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Simple: Since there is no empirical grounds for the claim then there is no reason to believe it.
 
DDD said:
Simple: Since there is no empirical grounds for the claim then there is no reason to believe it.
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Before the invention of the microscope there were no empirical grounds to support the claim that microscopic organisms existed.
 
FluffyNinja said:
Before the invention of the microscope there were no empirical grounds to support the claim that microscopic organisms existed.
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So, thereby believe in "god?" This unsupported by observational/real/empirical data, that is omniscient, omnipotent, and omnipresent, and controls every aspect of our lives, and pay the distributors of lies money? :roll:
 
DDD said:
So, thereby believe in "god?" This unsupported by observational/real/empirical data, that is omniscient, omnipotent, and omnipresent, and controls every aspect of our lives, and pay the distributors of lies money? :roll:
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I'm simply making observations based on what others have posted. I've made no claims here. I didn't even bring God into the discussion; these are your words. Do I detect an agenda perhaps?
 
FluffyNinja said:
So basically, what you've taken four paragraphs to say is.....with all of our human intellect.....we still don't actually have any real answers as to how the universe kicked off? Interesting.
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That question while intriguing "the beginning" really has little importance to science since the universe did not exist prior to the Big Bang. It also happened 13 billion years ago. The study of the early universe is much more important and has been made possible by powerful telescopes that enable us to actually see stars and galaxies forming billions of years ago. What scientists don't do is automatically assume a deity must be responsible for everything we don't know. That hypothesis has failed time and time again.
 
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