Anonymous Internet Forums - Being Bullied

[Riveroaks]

lots of trolls, and lots of inane posters

my ignore list keeps growing

but it keeps me from butting heads with people i cant honestly converse with

Exactly !!!

Me too !!!

 

[Absentglare]

Absolutely, bullying is possible here.

Bully : use superior strength or influence to intimidate (someone)

You see cases where people gang up, use their force in numbers to try to humiliate people out of debate and into compliance. The tendency is to defer to democratic consensus, but some topics are governed more so by mob rule.

It's nowhere near the problem it is in school among children. Still, it's not acceptable behavior even though we're adults who should be able to tolerate abuse (?) or whatever the case is that we should ignore it.

 

[Riveroaks]

The perception of being "ganged up upon" is absolutely possible here.

Gun Control
Abortion
Religion
Politics

We've all seen groups of like-minded members of DP reign down upon a post and beat it to a rotten pulp plenty of times.

Go post something about how AR-15's should require background checks, a one month waiting period to purchase, a medical and mental history of all the people residing in the house where the gun will be stored, registration, and a complete firearms safety course for all residents within that household and see if you get "ganged up upon" rather harshly.

Go say all rape victims, regardless of age, or who the rapist was, should be forced to carry pregnancy to term and give birth to the baby and see if you don't get ganged up upon.

Go say you're against any and all homosexual acts, marriages, relationships in any and all forms and see if you don't get ganged up upon.

Depending upon the gang, and your own level of self control, it might not take long to feel "bullied".

Or is the term "bully" not quite appropriate here?

Most likely whenever that happens here on a website it is because certain users have several monikers and they are calling on all of them to make it look like they have a consensus.

In that case you just need to put them all on the ignore list.

 

[Riveroaks]

Seems like fewer and fewer people are really interested in discussing issues here, and are more interested in scoring points. It gets old, and I can see a time when it just won't be worth my time to log in anymore.

People like that go straight onto my ignore list too.

 

[Riveroaks]

Something else to consider, most internet forums don't allow any kind of political or religious discussion at all.

Considering this forum is dedicated to just that, with over 23,000 members, you know darn well coming in here that passionate and heated debate is
gonna happen. If you join with the expectation of being "popular", then you're on a fast road to getting a serious wedgie.

So if you enter the "octagon" - can you complain about getting knocked around?

Yup that's called fanaticism.

Fanatics are very hard if not impossible to deal with.

Religion and politics seems to attract fanatics.

I try to help people understand that before science, religion, and politics they each need to first develop some philosophy skills and learn to think for themselves.

Once they have the rules of good philosophy down, then they are ready to wander into the dangerous realms of Empirical science.

Once they can cope with both philosophy AND science THEN they are ready for the big leagues of politics and religion.

Even so, if you meet a fanatic, it is normally going to be irresistible to put them on ignore as well.

 

[VanceMack]

Remarkably relevant in todays day and age.

 

[Riveroaks]

I don't think you can relate a real life physical threat with an anonymous and voluntary internet forum.

Only if they find out who you are and start knocking on your door or emailing your boss or friends at work.

That would then be really embarrassing.

A lady (SWF never married) whom I went to high school with many decades ago and later met on the alumni website threatened to do that to me when I told her I was not interested in a relationship with her. She was born a psycho. She has always been a psycho. And she still is a psycho.

I had to cancel Facebook and Linked-In and I changed jobs to be rid of her.

That was big time harassment.

Hell hath no fury as a woman scorned.

 

[Riveroaks]

Bullies are in it for the reaction they get, the feeling of superiority that comes with it, and the perceived "alpha" status they feel they acquire by asserting their dominance over others. By ignoring them and failing to give that reaction, the rest doesn't happen. So I would say bullying here is not possible unless one allows themselves to be bullied, by not updating their ignore list and continually responding with increasingly emotional/outraged posts. I suppose you could argue that's more trolling than bullying, but honestly the difference is slight.

A psycho is a psychopath and derives pleasure from hurting or controlling someone else. There are lots of psycho's on the Internet. They infest it.

 

[HonestJoe]

I don't think you can relate a real life physical threat with an anonymous and voluntary internet forum.

My second example didn’t involve any threats and the first doesn’t need to. The gang in the park or the new neighbours could just be doing the same kind of things online bullies do – constant verbal abuse, talking you down to other people, interrupting anything constructive you try to do – essentially trying to achieve exactly what you’re proposing. The victim is forced to leave (and typically, someone new becomes the target).

The fundamental point remains that while it’s usually perfectly possible for the victim to flee to escape the bullying in this manner (as it often is to escape physical bullying), it’s in no way a solution to the problem. It’s just sweeping it under the carpet.

 

[CanadaJohn]

Bullying is possible on forums like these, but only when there is some actual ability to affect what another poster does and does not do.

Absolutely true.

 

[CanadaJohn]

That's why God created the ignore list.

To an extent. If someone on the ignore list was unable to respond to a quote of yours or in any way link to your activity on the site, that would be a true benefit. However, you can frequently be quoted by someone on your ignore list and impressions can be left that are unfavourable to you and may damage your reputation with other members of the site. These trolls are well known to those of us who've been around awhile. But for others, having someone call you a racist, as an example, without you responding or countering the insult can leave the wrong impression for others. That's what the trolls here rely upon and in some quarters they are admired for their trolling.

But no site is perfect and one simply has to accept that there are assholes everywhere in life. DP is no different, although there are by far a great many pleasant and decent posters who are fun to argue with and debate the issues of the day.

 

[jet57]

I wouldn't call that bullying. There would have to be some ability to restrict how a person functions to be bullying.

When a person is beat upon so badly by trolling, THAT is bullying. A person's identity has nothing to do with it. If a poster cannot enjoy a little recreation in political discussion because every point they try and make is trolled to absurdity and that person will no longer post, THAT is bullying: the intent to to drive someone off. Just go to the gun threads and watch what happens. I ran a thread that showed conclusively what happens to someone of a differing opinion in a gun thread, and it played out exactly as I predicted it would.

Around here, the fact is that this forum is a pro gun forum, populated by radical second amendment interpretations, the posters of which control certain areas of the forum. The result of course is that people who have a more liberal view; that is to say, and opinion that is drawn from more sources and experiences, not necessarily politically liberal, are hounded with trolling and so intentionally misrepresented by tag-team bullying that the topic becomes absolutely lost in the personal attacks.

The philosophical applications of the art of debate are completely ignored and thus the experience becomes one of walking into a rock fight.

 

[Dragonfly]

My second example didn’t involve any threats and the first doesn’t need to. The gang in the park or the new neighbours could just be doing the same kind of things online bullies do – constant verbal abuse, talking you down to other people, interrupting anything constructive you try to do – essentially trying to achieve exactly what you’re proposing. The victim is forced to leave (and typically, someone new becomes the target).

The fundamental point remains that while it’s usually perfectly possible for the victim to flee to escape the bullying in this manner (as it often is to escape physical bullying), it’s in no way a solution to the problem. It’s just sweeping it under the carpet.

Anything that is being done to you in the real world, directly to your face, and making you uncomfortable in your own space is still vastly different than whatever could possibly "happen to you" on a voluntary internet forum.

Here, you can simply mouse click everything away. That little red "x" in upper right corner solves everything.

Being "threatened" (your word), being "abused" (your word), and/or being intimidated (my word) in real life is NOT the same thing. In my opinion.

You are not being forced to carry on a conversation with somebody here that has an opposing opinion.

A pesky, pain-in-the-ass and frightening neighbor is a vastly different ballgame. It's not apples-to-apples. In my opinion.

As has been pointed out, if you don't like what I post, click that ignore feature and POOF - you can't read anything I post or have posted in the past.

You almost have to chose to be bullied here at DP.

 

[jet57]

Remarkably relevant in todays day and age.

When someone randomly calls you a marxist because you don't tow the party line, then that is being offended.

 

[Dragonfly]

When a person is beat upon so badly by trolling, THAT is bullying. A person's identity has nothing to do with it. If a poster cannot enjoy a little recreation in political discussion because every point they try and make is trolled to absurdity and that person will no longer post, THAT is bullying: the intent to to drive someone off. Just go to the gun threads and watch what happens. I ran a thread that showed conclusively what happens to someone of a differing opinion in a gun thread, and it played out exactly as I predicted it would.

Around here, the fact is that this forum is a pro gun forum, populated by radical second amendment interpretations, the posters of which control certain areas of the forum. The result of course is that people who have a more liberal view; that is to say, and opinion that is drawn from more sources and experiences, not necessarily politically liberal, are hounded with trolling and so intentionally misrepresented by tag-team bullying that the topic becomes absolutely lost in the personal attacks.

The philosophical applications of the art of debate are completely ignored and thus the experience becomes one of walking into a rock fight.

Trolling is an infraction which generates points.

If you feel you're being trolled, report the post.

Problem solved.

 

[jet57]

Trolling is an infraction which generates points.

If you feel you're being trolled, report the post.

Problem solved.

It's reported all the time: you and I both know that. But it keeps happening by the very same people in very thread doesn't it.

So, whose really in charge then?

 

[Dragonfly]

It's reported all the time: you and I both know that. But it keeps happening by the very same people in very thread doesn't it.

So, whose really in charge then?

I don't know that at all. I don't report people. I think I might have reported maybe 5 posts in the last few years. The most recent one was only because of an outright threat of violence one member made towards another.

This forum also has a DBAJ violation.
Report posts you think are violations and let the mods do what they do.
If you don't like it, you know where the door is.
Or use your ignore function.

Again, you'll be bothered by things here if you allow things to bother you.

Or, you can post what you want to say and move along.

Some people have a very bizarre tendency to think they have to respond to each and every post or comment made about them or their posts.

"Well, I sure as hell have to defend myself now don't I?" Actually, no. You don't. You can, but you don't have to.

 

[jet57]

I don't know that at all. I don't report people. I think I might have reported maybe 5 posts in the last few years. The most recent one was only because of an outright threat of violence one member made towards another.

This forum also has a DBAJ violation.
Report posts you think are violations and let the mods do what they do.
If you don't like it, you know where the door is.
Or use your ignore function.

Again, you'll be bothered by things here if you allow things to bother you.

Or, you can post what you want to say and move along.

Some people have a very bizarre tendency to think they have to respond to each and every post or comment made about them or their posts.

"Well, I sure as hell have to defend myself now don't I?" Actually, no. You don't. You can, but you don't have to.

Of course you know it. Such subjects come up in the pages around here all the time and you've just posted yet another thread on it.

Please dude. The mods are upset constantly by the trolling and bullying and if it weren't a problem then there'd be no infractions or suspensions as a result of it, moreover the forum would have no need of mods now would it. So, it certainly is not a matter of being upset by it as much as it is a matter of being invited to participate through registering and then having an open field of subjects of which to chose to engage in what ought to be, but is often not, a healthy exchange of ideas related to political and personal topics of interest.

Again, go to a gun thread and just start reading. Go to a religious thread and just start reading. So, even though we have mods and admin that demand fair play or else, your solution is, tolerate the abuse or leave: the rules mean nothing and the ideal of the forum means even less.

Sorry man but perhaps you should move to a no holds barred forum.

 

[justabubba]

Ok bubba I'll be gentle.

I'll also take you off one of my two lists for now and see how you do for a while.

You always need to be gentle with others and also be prepared to agree to disagree.

You cannot hound people like your mother used to hound you into cleaning up your room when she was still bigger than you while you were growing up.

Namely, you can't expect to get away with treating people the way you yourself were abused at home by your parents and sib's and expect NOT to end up on an ignore list.

Ok, good luck. You're staring over, with me. Good luck bubba.

no, put me back on your ignore list
i insist
notice that bullying behavior
trembling, huh

don't want you to get all verklempt over my responses to some of the stupid posts you have been inclined to make ... such as the one above

 

[Absentglare]

I don't know that at all. I don't report people. I think I might have reported maybe 5 posts in the last few years. The most recent one was only because of an outright threat of violence one member made towards another.

This forum also has a DBAJ violation.
Report posts you think are violations and let the mods do what they do.
If you don't like it, you know where the door is.
Or use your ignore function.

Again, you'll be bothered by things here if you allow things to bother you.

Or, you can post what you want to say and move along.

Some people have a very bizarre tendency to think they have to respond to each and every post or comment made about them or their posts.

"Well, I sure as hell have to defend myself now don't I?" Actually, no. You don't. You can, but you don't have to.

I don't ignore people and i generally don't report bad behavior. As a grown adult, i generally don't get that emotionally invested in frustration about ignorant people.

Still, you're ignoring the problem. I can't even have a conversation about gun control. I can't improve my perspective because the opponents gang up and harass anyone who proposes any measure of gun control, no matter how benign.

Hell, ask other posters. How many people avoid the gun control section ? I try to, but periodically i get wound up in the temptation of discussing my views.

Now i don't really care that much about people acting like bullies, that's their problem. Still, the behavior of certain groups of posters on certain issues is this form of bullying, of abusing other posters while trying to stay just within the confines of the forum rules. I actually feel sorry for them, i'm only here to explain the reality and call them out on their bull****.

 

[HonestJoe]

Anything that is being done to you in the real world, directly to your face, and making you uncomfortable in your own space is still vastly different than whatever could possibly "happen to you" on a voluntary internet forum.

I never said it wasn't, I just said that your "solution" of just going somewhere else would still apply.

You almost have to chose to be bullied here at DP.

It sounds like you've trying to justify something. Maybe you should just get to the point. Are you suggesting bullying is OK as long as your victim has some route to escape?

 

[justabubba]

I don't ignore people and i generally don't report bad behavior. As a grown adult, i generally don't get that emotionally invested in frustration about ignorant people.

Still, you're ignoring the problem. I can't even have a conversation about gun control. I can't improve my perspective because the opponents gang up and harass anyone who proposes any measure of gun control, no matter how benign.

Hell, ask other posters. How many people avoid the gun control section ? I try to, but periodically i get wound up in the temptation of discussing my views.

Now i don't really care that much about people acting like bullies, that's their problem. Still, the behavior of certain groups of posters on certain issues is this form of bullying, of abusing other posters while trying to stay just within the confines of the forum rules. I actually feel sorry for them, i'm only here to explain the reality and call them out on their bull****.

actually, i feel sorry for those who believe as you do ... that strongly worded differences of opinion constitute 'bullying'. you conflate being unable to change their belief with their behaving as bullies for refusing to adopt your stated position
they may be wrong
they may be persistent
they may be ignorant
but conveying their views while dismissing yours is hardly bullying
especially recognizing that with one mouse click you can absent yourself from the very behavior that you find disturbing

 

[Dragonfly]

I don't ignore people and i generally don't report bad behavior. As a grown adult, i generally don't get that emotionally invested in frustration about ignorant people.

Still, you're ignoring the problem. I can't even have a conversation about gun control. I can't improve my perspective because the opponents gang up and harass anyone who proposes any measure of gun control, no matter how benign.

Hell, ask other posters. How many people avoid the gun control section ? I try to, but periodically i get wound up in the temptation of discussing my views.

Now i don't really care that much about people acting like bullies, that's their problem. Still, the behavior of certain groups of posters on certain issues is this form of bullying, of abusing other posters while trying to stay just within the confines of the forum rules. I actually feel sorry for them, i'm only here to explain the reality and call them out on their bull****.

So there's what, 6-10 members in the Gun Control forum that appear to rule the roost. Right?

Is it just a numbers game?

Suppose 50 reasonable people who think some amount of gun control and some amount of restrictions are necessary for the good of us all set up camp there and dominate the discussion. Suppose the majority of people who post there swing the tide. Could it be done? Might be a fun experiment.

Can you be "shouted down" by somebody you have on ignore?
Can you be "shouted down" if the majority of the people posting there agree with you?

If it's just that one topic in that one section of the forum, could a take-over happen if we all decided enough was enough?

 

[Absentglare]

actually, i feel sorry for those who believe as you do ... that strongly worded differences of opinion constitute 'bullying'. you conflate being unable to change their belief with their behaving as bullies for refusing to adopt your stated position
they may be wrong
they may be persistent
they may be ignorant
but conveying their views while dismissing yours is hardly bullying
especially recognizing that with one mouse click you can absent yourself from the very behavior that you find disturbing

I don't care how strongly worded their differences of opinion are. I don't get their opinions though, all i get is this shooting-from-the-hip, you're-with-us-or-against-us mentality.

Frankly, it's pathetic. My regret is that some people lack the maturity to candidly discuss such a topic. Maybe you think that's a good thing.

 

[Absentglare]

So there's what, 6-10 members in the Gun Control forum that appear to rule the roost. Right?

Is it just a numbers game?

Suppose 50 reasonable people who think some amount of gun control and some amount of restrictions are necessary for the good of us all set up camp there and dominate the discussion. Suppose the majority of people who post there swing the tide. Could it be done? Might be a fun experiment.

Can you be "shouted down" by somebody you have on ignore?
Can you be "shouted down" if the majority of the people posting there agree with you?

If it's just that one topic in that one section of the forum, could a take-over happen if we all decided enough was enough?

I don't really have good answers to your questions. I generally would not think that responding to bullying with more bullying is a great solution.

I'm just pointing out that a lot of the posters in that section do not seem to be interested in debate. It's more like they go there to stroke each other's egos and denigrate people who approach the topic of gun control with any position other than theirs.

I'm not the first person to observe this kind of behavior. Even when what they do is not an overt violation of rules, that doesn't mean it's honest, informed debate.

And i don't even really want to have some change in policy from the powers that be, smacking these people down. That doesn't solve the problem. I want these people to improve their attitudes on their own. I don't believe in censorship and, as a humanist, i think there is an inner goodness within every human. I would like these people to seriously question their own motivations, their own tactics, and to actually participate in sincere debate.