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How are poor people both human and subhuman?

a lot of you want to paint all of these people as "victims"

they arent

they are people who made stupid decision after stupid decision, and never grew up

never wanted to be part of basic society

we have about a dozen of these guys come through our shelter every winter....same faces

they have been through the detox centers....didnt last

they have been through the homeless shelters, and in a lot of cases...get kicked out for various reasons

there are people out there who truly need help....and who can change....

there are also people out there who dont give a ****, will steal whatever isnt nailed down, and care nothing except their next fix

i have seen both....
 
Both sides of this argument have validity. Gath and gdgyva are right there are a lot of homeless people out there because they don't want help. Many veterans are homeless because they don't want to be tracked or put into any programs. It's difficult to help people who over and over again refuse it.

At the same time though, there are plenty of people that are homeless through no fault of their own, they have just ended up on the streets and given the opportunity would lift themselves out of it. However, there is the problem of people getting 'institutionalized' as homeless. Once you have been homeless for a certain period of time it becomes simply your way of life (much like inmates who have been incarcerated for long periods of time) and even if you they do wish and are given help to escape it, they simply have no idea how to live life normally. In this case, they actually need further support to not only pull them out of homelessness but to to get them on the right track to be functioning members of society.
 
_Sal said:
that video is heart breaking...I try to carry loonies and water bottles in my car to give out ...how hard can it be to give a little :(
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That's good of you, but so many of the beggars aren't asking for either, they are asking for money. The kid is seen as a kid and doesn't appear to be strung out, so most folks will assume it wasn't his choices that landed him there. The other fellow is clearly an adult and folks rightly assume he has other options and that the bad choices he made to get there on the street are on him. Giving him money is not going to solve anything.
 
_Sal said:
that video is heart breaking...I try to carry loonies and water bottles in my car to give out ...how hard can it be to give a little :(
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Saw a guy who looked homeless, sitting in the rain. Now I'll carry cheap rain ponchos with me at all times.
It won't solve the problem, but it takes care of a more immediate need.
Why do we have homeless people? Why? Doesn't everyone deserve some sort of dignity?
 
Summerwind said:
I don't think you realize that some are self-medicating as well as they can to overcome PTSD for veterans as well as others, mental illness that is not affordably or well regulated with healthcare level drugs, etc. In other words, as "bad" as addiction is, for some using it as self-medication, it's better and safer for the general public than if they were straight and sober.
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you could say this from now until the end of the world...the lack of understanding and support for people with mental issues caused by various things which include PTSD resulting from war is breath-takingly frightening...
 
Lovebug said:
Saw a guy who looked homeless, sitting in the rain. Now I'll carry cheap rain ponchos with me at all times.
It won't solve the problem, but it takes care of a more immediate need.
Why do we have homeless people? Why? Doesn't everyone deserve some sort of dignity?
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I understand that some choose to be homeless. That is their choice. I do believe however that is a minority. The "get a job" people have zero understanding of what such a person faces and clearly have never been in a management position in their life.
 
clownboy said:
That's good of you, but so many of the beggars aren't asking for either, they are asking for money. The kid is seen as a kid and doesn't appear to be strung out, so most folks will assume it wasn't his choices that landed him there. The other fellow is clearly an adult and folks rightly assume he has other options and that the bad choices he made to get there on the street are on him. Giving him money is not going to solve anything.
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I agree that it does not address the heart of the issue when we give money. I don't have a solution for that. I just know that when someone asks, I give. As a fellow human being that is what we are supposed to do. If they don't really need it, that is not my issue, it is theirs and we all have to answer for our judgments and choices no?
 
Gathomas88 said:
If someone's mentally disturbed to the point of being completely dysfunctional, it's usually not subtle.
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it can be extremely subtle until you push a button that triggers their illness

they may be perfectly healthy physically, mentally they may even be almost stable...

however if you have ever been in management employing people who are suffering from a variety of mental illnesses is extremely challenging...WHY should I hire someone who is going to dive under a desk at the first loud noise...WHY should I have to

WHY should someone who has such fears have to justify to you or ANYONE else why they can't cope after they have been in a war zone that has fried their neurons...that is the cost of forcing people into combat...we need to man up and pay the price
 
Lovebug said:
Saw a guy who looked homeless, sitting in the rain. Now I'll carry cheap rain ponchos with me at all times.
It won't solve the problem, but it takes care of a more immediate need.
Why do we have homeless people? Why? Doesn't everyone deserve some sort of dignity?
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Is is cheaper over the long term to provide decent housing. But nope- many would say, their problems, self induced.
Compassion is on its way out with far to many people.
 
Some interesting facts:

Veterans & Homelessness
•Number of veterans in the U.S. as of 2014: approximately 22.5 million2
•Increasing numbers of returning military personnel: according to the Mass. Dept. of Veterans’ Services, approximately 31,000 service members have returned to the Commonwealth since Sept. 11, 2001.
•Between 529,000 and 840,000 veterans are homeless at some time during the year.2
•On any given night, more than 300,000 veterans are living on the streets or in shelters in the U.S.
•Approx. 33% of homeless males in the U.S. are veterans.2
•Veterans are twice as likely as other Americans to become chronically homeless.2
•Veterans represent 11% of the adult civilian population, but 26% of the homeless population, according to the Homeless Research Institute (2007).
•Veterans are more at risk of becoming homeless than non-veterans
•The number of homeless Vietnam-era veterans, male and female, is greater than the number of soldiers who died during the war.1
•Primary causes of homelessness among veterans are:

1.Lack of income due to limited education and lack of transferable skills from military to civilian life (especially true of younger veterans returning from Iraq and Afghanistan)
2.Combat-related physical health issues and disabilities
3.Combat-related mental health issues and disabilities
4.Substance abuse problems that interfere with job retention
5.Weak social networks due to problems adjusting to civilian life
6.Lack of services
Veteran Statistics | Homeless Veterans | Veterans Organizations
 
rabbitcaebannog said:
Some interesting facts:

Veterans & Homelessness
•Number of veterans in the U.S. as of 2014: approximately 22.5 million2
•Increasing numbers of returning military personnel: according to the Mass. Dept. of Veterans’ Services, approximately 31,000 service members have returned to the Commonwealth since Sept. 11, 2001.
•Between 529,000 and 840,000 veterans are homeless at some time during the year.2
•On any given night, more than 300,000 veterans are living on the streets or in shelters in the U.S.
•Approx. 33% of homeless males in the U.S. are veterans.2
•Veterans are twice as likely as other Americans to become chronically homeless.2
•Veterans represent 11% of the adult civilian population, but 26% of the homeless population, according to the Homeless Research Institute (2007).
•Veterans are more at risk of becoming homeless than non-veterans
•The number of homeless Vietnam-era veterans, male and female, is greater than the number of soldiers who died during the war.1
•Primary causes of homelessness among veterans are:

1.Lack of income due to limited education and lack of transferable skills from military to civilian life (especially true of younger veterans returning from Iraq and Afghanistan)
2.Combat-related physical health issues and disabilities
3.Combat-related mental health issues and disabilities
4.Substance abuse problems that interfere with job retention
5.Weak social networks due to problems adjusting to civilian life
6.Lack of services
Veteran Statistics | Homeless Veterans | Veterans Organizations
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amen!!
 
David_N said:
Homeless veterans are clearly responsible for their homelessness, and all drug addicts are wusses that should just man up and quit!
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Oh chill. Most homeless people who are genuinely suffering from ailments don't sit around with well written signs and cups like beggars on the street corner.

And most poor aren't drug addicts because in order to sustain drug addiction someone has to be able to afford it. The biggest reason for homelessness is mental health issues that go untreated and undiagnosed. Others simply fall on hard financial times and rely on gov assistance to get out of the hole they're in - and it's temporary.

In the video both guys, to me, looked young and mental-health issue free and thus just pandering for income. Pandering is a common practice. I wouldn't given either a 2nd look or a single penny because I know that pandering for money brings in a decent "wage" to those who do it full time. If someone can pander for money they can ask for work and are capable of seeking out help because they're not mentally and emotionally unstable.
 
Aunt Spiker said:
In the video both guys, to me, looked young and mental-health issue free and thus just pandering for income. Pandering is a common practice. I wouldn't given either a 2nd look or a single penny because I know that pandering for money brings in a decent "wage" to those who do it full time. If someone can pander for money they can ask for work and are capable of seeking out help because they're not mentally and emotionally unstable.
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This way of thinking never made much sense to me. If one could work in a job, why sit on a street corner and have to beg? It's not safe, it's not by far the easier route. My guess is that if you are in begging mode you are desperate and it is a last resort. It's not done to irritate people who have jobs or to relax rather than work.
 
rabbitcaebannog said:
This way of thinking never made much sense to me. If one could work in a job, why sit on a street corner and have to beg? It's not safe, it's not by far the easier route. My guess is that if you are in begging mode you are desperate and it is a last resort. It's not done to irritate people who have jobs or to relax rather than work.
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Because some people would rather be lazy bums and have others just give them money for no reason than hard working to support themselves and living within standards and expectations.

*shrug*

Please don't tell me you think that everybody who's ever asked you for a handout is really in need of one and will put it to good use (like buying food).

I used to give money to anybody who asked for a dollar . . . and I learned (through a series of BS events) that most people who ask for it don't deserve it. Like the guy who was asking for some money to put gas in his car because his card wouldn't work. At that time I was of the mind that OF COURSE I'd give him some of my money. Then I ran into him down the street at my work asking every person in the parkinglot for money using a different line while riding around on a bike.

Why was he biking around LYING about his situation for money? Because it's easier than finding and keeping a 9 - 5.

I support the poor not with useless and likely moot handouts like I used to but with direct charity to charitable causes (habitat for humanity, goodwill, and soup kitchens - etc.)
 
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Aunt Spiker said:
Because some people would rather be lazy bums and have others just give them money for no reason than hard working to support themselves and living within standards and expectations.

*shrug*

Please don't tell me you think that everybody who's ever asked you for a handout is really in need of one and will put it to good use (like buying food).
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I never said that it would be put toward food. I suspect those who do not have a mental illness usually have some kind of addiction to drugs/alcohol or maybe a combination of mental illness and addiction. I doubt it is just a lazy person not wanting to work. I believe living on the streets is not easier than the alternative. In other words, I don't think laziness causes people to live on the streets. I think it is pure desperation and many need some kind of help with either mental illness or addiction. Yes, and some are temporarily on the streets due to bad circumstances but those are the ones (if they do not suffer from mental issues or addiction) will most likely be able to get themselves out.
 
_Sal said:
I agree that it does not address the heart of the issue when we give money. I don't have a solution for that. I just know that when someone asks, I give. As a fellow human being that is what we are supposed to do. If they don't really need it, that is not my issue, it is theirs and we all have to answer for our judgments and choices no?
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You are right.
Just getting out of the car, offering some water or food, letting them know that you care, that goes a long way. Treat everyone with some sort of respect. They are fellow human beings, we don't know their story. How can we know for sure that something tragic wont' happen to us?
 
Lovebug said:
You are right.
Just getting out of the car, offering some water or food, letting them know that you care, that goes a long way. Treat everyone with some sort of respect. They are fellow human beings, we don't know their story. How can we know for sure that something tragic wont' happen to us?
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I have always wondered that also with cocky individuals.

They have this assumption that they will always be as strong as they currently are mentally, physically and emotionally...they will not. And god help them when they run into a younger version of themselves years later...or when their kid has a learning problem or they get cancer, or mugged or a zillion other things that could happen because in life there are no guarantees.

We all weaken and die...and karma well, it always comes around.
 
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