• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!
  • Welcome to our archives. No new posts are allowed here.

Why do people get involved in cults.

RAMOSS

RAMOSS

Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 19, 2014
Messages
62,963
Reaction score
27,366
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
With the discussion about that young man being beaten to death to try to get him to 'confess his sins', and the claim that said the group his parents belong to could be considered a cult, I was wondering 'why do people get attracted to cults'.

I want to use the following definition , so that mainstream religions won't be dragged into the discussion (In other words, I don't want to hear 'all religions are cults' since that would be the logical fallacy of equivocation).

a religion or sect considered to be false, unorthodox, or extremist, with members often living outside of conventional society under the direction of a charismatic leader.
Click to expand...

Why do people fall into and let themselves get influenced by cults?
 
I think it is often a matter of wanting to feel as though you belong to something larger than yourself. I can empathize with that desire.

That is what brings them in. The echo chamber effect is probably responsible for them buying into some of the more extreme claims and rules.
 
It's the need to belong. It's the same thing that drives people to religion, sporting clubs or political websites.
 
"There are certain factors in man's nature which are fixed and unchangeable: the necessity to satisfy the physiologically conditioned drives and the necessity to avoid isolation and moral aloneness." - Erich Fromm
 
RAMOSS said:
With the discussion about that young man being beaten to death to try to get him to 'confess his sins', and the claim that said the group his parents belong to could be considered a cult, I was wondering 'why do people get attracted to cults'.

I want to use the following definition , so that mainstream religions won't be dragged into the discussion (In other words, I don't want to hear 'all religions are cults' since that would be the logical fallacy of equivocation).

Why do people fall into and let themselves get influenced by cults?
Click to expand...

You have a definitional problem even still -- and a very big one.

First you need to delete any notion of "false" because philosophy in its entirety has already proved that "true" and "false" are relative to their times.

If you re-define a cult as an organization that exploits its own members to the extent of their own demise, that would be much better then.

Forget "false."

Every organized religion on this planet is most likely false, and there is little doubt about it.
 
spangledbanner said:
"There are certain factors in man's nature which are fixed and unchangeable: the necessity to satisfy the physiologically conditioned drives and the necessity to avoid isolation and moral aloneness." - Erich Fromm
Click to expand...

You can shorten this to "a need to belong."

Many people suffer from a need to belong.

But not everyone does.

And this apparent need can also be overcome eventually.
 
Riveroaks said:
You can shorten this to "a need to belong."

Many people suffer from a need to belong.

But not everyone does.

And this apparent need can also be overcome eventually.
Click to expand...

Not everyone is normal.
 
I do it for the Kool-aid. Who doesn't like Kool-aid?
 
Cults (organizations of predators that prey upon unwary opportune victims) are like any other organization that must feed itself at the expense of others.

The most ancient cults were the cults of the emperors. The purpose of these cults was to secure the leadership of a given tyrant over his/her subject peoples. The Egyptians were the most notable for this, although the Romans also adopted it. The European kings and queens adopted this notion as well to ensure their own superiority over the Catholic Church eventually.

Judaism is one of the first theological cults which came along in history, it's original purpose having been to assist Moses to govern the Hebrews (which included the Jews as one 12 tribes).

Islam is a similar theocratic cult that developed in Arabia. It has since splintered into two major subgroups, The Sunni and the Shiite.

Christianity was a reformation and protest cult which evolved through Jesus of Nazareth, Peter of Galilee, and Paul of Tarsus, in reaction to the corruptions of ancient Judaism after its 14 centuries of history. Moral -- religions tend to become corrupted.

Protestantism became the reformation and protest cult which evolved after 15 centuries of Catholicism in power.

Puritans, Baptists, Anabaptists, Quakers, Amish, and Mormons were counter-reformation cults which evolved against mainstream Anglicanism and Lutheranism in their turn. There are even RLDS cults which have rebelled against the original LDS cult.

This is the history of cults which have become mainstream eventually, triggering their own cult movements from themselves.

Why do people join the new cults ??

BECAUSE the carefully framed messages of these cults attracts them.

THEN these people don't notice the entrapments of the pure cult issues of exploitation of their own membership.
 
Because people have a desire to be part of something important and special so they can be important and special.

And therein lies the trap of cults.

They are really good at spotting and manipulating these kind of people.

And most of these people are those who disenfranchised in some way, those who have no place in regular society.
 
The desire to be included in a special group - much the same as a street gang. Now feeling alone and convinced that membership has some advantage (even if aware of some disadvantages/risk) they join.
 
Riveroaks said:
Cults (organizations of predators that prey upon unwary opportune victims) are like any other organization that must feed itself at the expense of others.

The most ancient cults were the cults of the emperors. The purpose of these cults was to secure the leadership of a given tyrant over his/her subject peoples. The Egyptians were the most notable for this, although the Romans also adopted it. The European kings and queens adopted this notion as well to ensure their own superiority over the Catholic Church eventually.

Judaism is one of the first theological cults which came along in history, it's original purpose having been to assist Moses to govern the Hebrews (which included the Jews as one 12 tribes).

Islam is a similar theocratic cult that developed in Arabia. It has since splintered into two major subgroups, The Sunni and the Shiite.

Christianity was a reformation and protest cult which evolved through Jesus of Nazareth, Peter of Galilee, and Paul of Tarsus, in reaction to the corruptions of ancient Judaism after its 14 centuries of history. Moral -- religions tend to become corrupted.

Protestantism became the reformation and protest cult which evolved after 15 centuries of Catholicism in power.

Puritans, Baptists, Anabaptists, Quakers, Amish, and Mormons were counter-reformation cults which evolved against mainstream Anglicanism and Lutheranism in their turn. There are even RLDS cults which have rebelled against the original LDS cult.

This is the history of cults which have become mainstream eventually, triggering their own cult movements from themselves.

Why do people join the new cults ??

BECAUSE the carefully framed messages of these cults attracts them.

THEN these people don't notice the entrapments of the pure cult issues of exploitation of their own membership.
Click to expand...

And here we go into the line of argument I specifically asked people not to go to. Please, concentrate on the modern cults, not mainstream religions.
 
RAMOSS said:
With the discussion about that young man being beaten to death to try to get him to 'confess his sins', and the claim that said the group his parents belong to could be considered a cult, I was wondering 'why do people get attracted to cults'.

I want to use the following definition , so that mainstream religions won't be dragged into the discussion (In other words, I don't want to hear 'all religions are cults' since that would be the logical fallacy of equivocation).



Why do people fall into and let themselves get influenced by cults?
Click to expand...

when ever cults get mentioned the most horrendously memorable for me was the one run by Jim Jones, The People's Temple

He was a strong minded charismatic individual who started out with all of the right reasons...but it all ended in blood and death and immense tragedy.

I believe that cults go after a certain type of individual. They have to be needy, and receptive to changing their life and molding themselves into the ways of the established cult.

Cults then isolate them from mainstream society making them fully dependent upon the cult for socialization and support even their physical survival in some cases so that they can be indoctrinated and adopt "like think".

It's quite brilliant really and quite vile.

There is no easy escape as they will not give up members easily and often go to unthinkable measures to ensure their members stay put.
 
RAMOSS said:
And here we go into the line of argument I specifically asked people not to go to. Please, concentrate on the modern cults, not mainstream religions.
Click to expand...

I think that even with your definition it is a point worth noting that many religious people can be 'atheistic' about other religions to the point that they consider them false, unorthodox, or extremist; It is very subjective even to the point that religious people would consider that even if you were not coming to physical harm in another religion then your immortal soul is in far worse danger.

Anyway, I am going to be polemical about this and offer the opinion that 'mainstream religion' is a gateway drug for 'cult religion'. I speak from genuine experience that at one time in my life I had an encounter with a relatively mainstream charismatic church and their expectation was that I would give up the life I was leading ( I won't go into how or why that situation came about). I can't say for sure but, I am not aware of any outright atheist people that joined a 'cult religion', it seems to me that you have to be predisposed to 'religiosity' in the first place, whatever that is.
 
_Sal said:
when ever cults get mentioned the most horrendously memorable for me was the one run by Jim Jones, The People's Temple

He was a strong minded charismatic individual who started out with all of the right reasons...but it all ended in blood and death and immense tragedy.

I believe that cults go after a certain type of individual. They have to be needy, and receptive to changing their life and molding themselves into the ways of the established cult.

Cults then isolate them from mainstream society making them fully dependent upon the cult for socialization and support even their physical survival in some cases so that they can be indoctrinated and adopt "like think".

It's quite brilliant really and quite vile.

There is no easy escape as they will not give up members easily and often go to unthinkable measures to ensure their members stay put.
Click to expand...

Why do you think this kind of person is so needy? How do they get sucked into that pattern?
 
Riveroaks said:
Puritans, Baptists, Anabaptists, Quakers, Amish, and Mormons were counter-reformation cults which evolved against mainstream Anglicanism and Lutheranism in their turn.
Click to expand...

Actually the Puritans rejected Anglicanism because it was too Catholic for them. The Anglicans even took the epiclesis out of the 1662 BCP to make the Puritans happy, they thought it was too Romish. Mormons are an entirely different animal from either Anglicanism or Lutheranism.
 
RAMOSS said:
With the discussion about that young man being beaten to death to try to get him to 'confess his sins', and the claim that said the group his parents belong to could be considered a cult, I was wondering 'why do people get attracted to cults'.

I want to use the following definition , so that mainstream religions won't be dragged into the discussion (In other words, I don't want to hear 'all religions are cults' since that would be the logical fallacy of equivocation).



Why do people fall into and let themselves get influenced by cults?
Click to expand...
That is a good question.
 
RAMOSS said:
Why do you think this kind of person is so needy? How do they get sucked into that pattern?
Click to expand...

and therein lies the problem researchers opinions differ widely and thus they say there is no "standard" persona that joins cults.

some of the characteristics they have found were age range is something like 15 to mid 30's, they are usually from back grounds that are middle to upper and they have led relatively sheltered lives.

cults use a hodge podge of techniques to lure and indoctrinate and many if not most are quite sophisticated...they usually have some idealistic goal or philosophy preached by some charismatic leader and the recruiters are people savvy...they read and understand people well, they are good talkers and listeners and have exceptional sales qualities since that's what they are doing selling a belief system, a way of life, a saving of your soul, a group to bond with...

they invite them to attend a few meetings which will be "goal focused" get them to relax, answers any concerns, draw them a bit closer
 
it's just me said:
Actually the Puritans rejected Anglicanism because it was too Catholic for them. The Anglicans even took the epiclesis out of the 1662 BCP to make the Puritans happy, they thought it was too Romish. Mormons are an entirely different animal from either Anglicanism or Lutheranism.
Click to expand...

The best explanation for Mormonism is given in the PBS documentary "The Mormons."

It started out as a personality cult based on Smith and Young. Both were charismatic. Both emphasized the further reformation of Protestantism away from Catholicism.

I do not blame them for their anti-Catholic views -- in 2000 years the Roman Church has had a lot of extra-Biblical dogma creep into it such as infant baptism and celibacy of priests. This concession should prevent any red herring counter arguments from anybody.

Smith got carried away in some respects (involvement with married and single women other than his wife -- also acts as mayor in the destruction of the printing press of a local publishing company) which got him killed.

Young took over and moved the flock to Salt Lake City where by and large they now reside and rule.

To give credit where credit is due, it can easily be explained that Smith's imagination was the sole source of his wild ideas and publications.

Young however demonstrated pure genius in moving a pioneer group a thousand miles across the wild plains from Illinois to what is now Utah.

The personality cult now takes its leader as the object of their enthrallment. The membership exploitation factors are still there, always have been, likely always will be. Somebody is going to tell me to prove it, so the proof is their financial exploitation of members, their exploitation of members time, their brainwashing of their children, and their nonscientific rules regarding coffee, tea, and alcohol.

They are smart about tobacco avoidance however. I have to laugh when the Baptists forbid alcohol but tobacco is fine with the Baptists. That's hilarious. Separate topic however.

The Mormons are a lesser extreme of the Amish, but with the same entrapment and rescue issues.
 
Last edited:
RAMOSS said:
And here we go into the line of argument I specifically asked people not to go to. Please, concentrate on the modern cults, not mainstream religions.
Click to expand...

How do you draw the line between a mainstream cult and a nonmainstream one ???

Your problem is in your definition.

You need a cleaner definition.
 
Riveroaks said:
...in 2000 years the Roman Church has had a lot of extra-Biblical dogma creep into it such as infant baptism and celibacy of priests
Click to expand...

I think they have a point on infant baptism, but the celibacy of secular priests is kinda ridiculous.
 
Riveroaks said:
John The Baptist did not baptize any infants. So why should the Catholic Church start doing it ??
Click to expand...

The Church's baptism is not John's Baptism.

While Apollos was at Corinth, Paul took the road through the interior and arrived at Ephesus. There he found some disciples 2 and asked them, “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when[a] you believed?”

They answered, “No, we have not even heard that there is a Holy Spirit.”

3 So Paul asked, “Then what baptism did you receive?”

“John’s baptism,” they replied.

4 Paul said, “John’s baptism was a baptism of repentance. He told the people to believe in the one coming after him, that is, in Jesus.” 5 On hearing this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 6 When Paul placed his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they spoke in tongues and prophesied. 7 There were about twelve men in all.

Acts 19:1-7
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom