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Copy of the Koran predates the birth of Mohammed.[W:29]

RAMOSS

RAMOSS

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Ihttp://news.discovery.com/history/religion/fragments-of-worlds-oldest-koran-may-predate-muhammad-150901.htm

British scholars have suggested that fragments of the world's oldest known Koran, which were discovered last month, may predate the accepted founding date of Islam by the Muslim prophet Muhammad.

The Times of London reported that radiocarbon dating carried out by experts at the University of Oxford says the fragments were produced between the years 568 A.D. and 645 A.D. Muhammad is generally believed to have lived between 570 A.D. and 632 A.D. The man known to Muslims as The Prophet is thought to have founded Islam sometime after 610 A.D., with the first Muslim community established at Medina, in present-day Saudi Arabia, in 622 A.D.

"This gives more ground to what have been peripheral views of the Koran's genesis, like that Muhammad and his early followers used a text that was already in existence and shaped it to fit their own political and theological agenda, rather than Muhammad receiving a revelation from heaven," Keith Small of Oxford's Bodleian Library told the Times.
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It futher goes on and cautions only the parchment was tested, but not the ink , but if the testing on the ink holds,.. well...
 
Re: Copy of the Koran predates the birth of Mohammed.

RAMOSS said:
Ihttp://news.discovery.com/history/religion/fragments-of-worlds-oldest-koran-may-predate-muhammad-150901.htm



It futher goes on and cautions only the parchment was tested, but not the ink , but if the testing on the ink holds,.. well...
Click to expand...

I read about this last week some time.

The problem is, that the uber-religious never care about scientific proof or facts. Not all, just the Uber ones. Faith is all they care about - their faith, their facts.

For instance, I am Christian, but believe in evolution and other scientific facts. Some Christians are "Young Earthers" and do not believe in evolution. Just as ISIS and many Islamists will not care about anything uncovered or proved by the people in the OP article.
 
Re: Copy of the Koran predates the birth of Mohammed.

Things to do today:

Pick up dry cleaning

Wash the car

Go to the Grocery Store

Issue Fatwah on Ramoss for Blasphemy.
 
Re: Copy of the Koran predates the birth of Mohammed.

its a miracle lol
 
Re: Copy of the Koran predates the birth of Mohammed.

so you're saying the quran is just an obscure tribal story adopted by a murderous psycopath/pedophile to further his murderous imperialist agenda, and not actually the true word of almighty god and his one true prophet mohammed, inhallah?
 
Re: Copy of the Koran predates the birth of Mohammed.

QuadpolarNutjob said:
so you're saying the quran is just an obscure tribal story adopted by a murderous psycopath/pedophile to further his murderous imperialist agenda, and not actually the true word of almighty god and his one true prophet mohammed, inhallah?
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I make no value judgements on who adopted it. ... but looks like someone is not telling the truth.
 
Re: Copy of the Koran predates the birth of Mohammed.

RAMOSS said:
I make no value judgements on who adopted it. ... but looks like someone is not telling the truth.
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well all religions are made up you don't really believe in people with magic powers changing water into wine, and walking on water do you?
 
Re: Copy of the Koran predates the birth of Mohammed.

dimensionallava said:
well all religions are made up you don't really believe in people with magic powers changing water into wine, and walking on water do you?
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Many things are made up. Little things, like laws, the constitution, poetry, music, ethics. art.
 
Re: Copy of the Koran predates the birth of Mohammed.

RAMOSS said:
Ihttp://news.discovery.com/history/religion/fragments-of-worlds-oldest-koran-may-predate-muhammad-150901.htm



It futher goes on and cautions only the parchment was tested, but not the ink , but if the testing on the ink holds,.. well...
Click to expand...

Not sure how this gained any traction as the dates are so close together it is a moot issue. We have no way of actually pinpointing any of this information.
 
Re: Copy of the Koran predates the birth of Mohammed.

this is religion forum and wonder since when religions have been mocked here
 
Re: Copy of the Koran predates the birth of Mohammed.

Medusa said:
this is religion forum and wonder since when religions have been mocked here
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Is presenting an archaeological find about religious matter mocking?
 
Re: Copy of the Koran predates the birth of Mohammed.

RAMOSS said:
Is presenting an archaeological find about religious matter mocking?
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yes and mods should see this.this is the wrong forum to do it
 
Re: Copy of the Koran predates the birth of Mohammed.

Gardener said:
Things to do today:

Pick up dry cleaning

Wash the car

Go to the Grocery Store

Issue Fatwah on Ramoss for Blasphemy.
Click to expand...

You I think this post just inspired a new thread game.

Much like the reasons to ban someone, it would be reasons to declare Fatwah on someone.
 
Re: Copy of the Koran predates the birth of Mohammed.

I agree with Medusa. Some here seem to be putting a purposely hard edge on comments. Mockery is a good word for it.
 
Re: Copy of the Koran predates the birth of Mohammed.

RAMOSS said:
Ihttp://news.discovery.com/history/religion/fragments-of-worlds-oldest-koran-may-predate-muhammad-150901.htm



It futher goes on and cautions only the parchment was tested, but not the ink , but if the testing on the ink holds,.. well...
Click to expand...

So the manuscript was probably produced during a 77-year period that included the entire lifetime of Muhammed (and a couple of years before and after) and this means, what?
 
Re: Copy of the Koran predates the birth of Mohammed.

RAMOSS said:
I make no value judgements on who adopted it. ... but looks like someone is not telling the truth.
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You got that from the quote in your OP?
 
Re: Copy of the Koran predates the birth of Mohammed.

Grand Mal said:
So the manuscript was probably produced during a 77-year period that included the entire lifetime of Muhammed (and a couple of years before and after) and this means, what?
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It means that the story that it was assembled later by the order of the Caliph was incorrect, and shows bits and pieces were circulating earlier.
 
Re: Copy of the Koran predates the birth of Mohammed.

RAMOSS said:
It means that the story that it was assembled later by the order of the Caliph was incorrect, and shows bits and pieces were circulating earlier.
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The quote doesn't say that and the link doesn't work.
 
Re: Copy of the Koran predates the birth of Mohammed.

I wll report all these posts
 
Re: Copy of the Koran predates the birth of Mohammed.

RAMOSS said:
Ihttp://news.discovery.com/history/religion/fragments-of-worlds-oldest-koran-may-predate-muhammad-150901.htm



It futher goes on and cautions only the parchment was tested, but not the ink , but if the testing on the ink holds,.. well...
Click to expand...

There is still a lot of "believed" and "thought to have" used in this proof (theory?). The dates in question are far too close to be absolute proof of anything.
 
Re: Copy of the Koran predates the birth of Mohammed.

ttwtt78640 said:
There is still a lot of "believed" and "thought to have" used in this proof (theory?). The dates in question are far too close to be absolute proof of anything.
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That is the way that science works. Scientists rarely make absolute statements.. because further data might show things are wrong. That is how they qualify statements.

They don't want to rule out the possibility that someone wrote upon an older piece of parchment. That can happen you know. That is why they sat 'believed' and 'further testing'. It could very well date from the earliest community that was established in 622 C.E.. which would fit perfectly into the timeline of Mohammed formally starting Islam in 610 C.E. It does predate the formal text of the Caliph in 657... (assuming the ink dates the same).
 
Re: Copy of the Koran predates the birth of Mohammed.

Beaudreaux said:
I read about this last week some time.

The problem is, that the uber-religious never care about scientific proof or facts. Not all, just the Uber ones. Faith is all they care about - their faith, their facts.

For instance, I am Christian, but believe in evolution and other scientific facts. Some Christians are "Young Earthers" and do not believe in evolution. Just as ISIS and many Islamists will not care about anything uncovered or proved by the people in the OP article.
Click to expand...

That's a gross generalization. There are many Christians like that, sure, but don't think that we all just ignore the facts to suit our faith. Faith based on nothing is no faith at all.

As for Islam being proved false, bring it.
 
Re: Copy of the Koran predates the birth of Mohammed.

dimensionallava said:
well all religions are made up you don't really believe in people with magic powers changing water into wine, and walking on water do you?
Click to expand...

Sure I do. If everything about Jesus was just made up, then why did the Jews feel the need to kill him?
 
Re: Copy of the Koran predates the birth of Mohammed.

Medusa said:
this is religion forum and wonder since when religions have been mocked here
Click to expand...

Mocking Christianity, Islam, Mormonism, and the like are all fine here, apparently. That protection only extends to certain religions.
 
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