• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!
  • Welcome to our archives. No new posts are allowed here.

What does Satan want?

CLAX1911

CLAX1911

Supreme knower of all
DP Veteran
Joined
Nov 12, 2012
Messages
82,022
Reaction score
19,723
Location
Houston, in the great state of Texas
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Slightly Conservative
Ihave talked about thisquestion with many people and Iseem to get the same couple of answers.Normally in these three varieties. Satan wants your soul, to be god, or to destroy God.But my question is deeper than that. To what end? If he wants your soul, why,what does he do with these captured souls? If he wants to be God, how would his prospective kingdom differ from God's? If he wants to destroy God what would he do after that?
 
CLAX1911 said:
Ihave talked about thisquestion with many people and Iseem to get the same couple of answers.Normally in these three varieties. Satan wants your soul, to be god, or to destroy God.But my question is deeper than that. To what end? If he wants your soul, why,what does he do with these captured souls? If he wants to be God, how would his prospective kingdom differ from God's? If he wants to destroy God what would he do after that?
Click to expand...

After much thought, I've come to the conclusion that the idea of Satan represents absolute anarchy; i.e. the complete freedom of the individual to do whatever he wishes within the limits of his own personal power to achieve. In other words, might makes right when it comes to action in complete hedonistic self-satisfaction.

It is the polar opposite of willing submission to rules meant to respect the existence/ rights of others.
 
Captain Adverse said:
After much thought, I've come to the conclusion that the idea of Satan represents absolute anarchy; i.e. the complete freedom of the individual to do whatever he wishes within the limits of his own personal power to achieve. In other words might make right when it comes to hedonistic self-satisfaction. It is the polar opposite to willing submission to rules meant to respect the existence of others.
Click to expand...
Appreciate the well thought out post,and I do agree.
But I was speaking about what does Satan want, not Satanists.

He already has the ability to do whatever he wants he can't possibly be more condemnedthan he is now. So there is something motivating him tobe chaos.
 
CLAX1911 said:
Appreciate the well thought out post,and I do agree.
But I was speaking about what does Satan want, not Satanists.

He already has the ability to do whatever he wants he can't possibly be more condemnedthan he is now. So there is something motivating him tobe chaos.
Click to expand...

I responded correctly. I don't know if there is a personified "Satan." Examining it from a Judeo-Christian standpoint, his goal is to replace God by achieving universal supremacy and rule as an absolute despot able to do whatever on a whim. Everyone else of lesser power would be allowed to get whatever is left based solely on their own power to compel it.
 
CLAX1911 said:
Appreciate the well thought out post,and I do agree.
But I was speaking about what does Satan want, not Satanists.

He already has the ability to do whatever he wants he can't possibly be more condemnedthan he is now. So there is something motivating him tobe chaos.
Click to expand...

Anger, hatred, and pride. Satan wishes to harm God by destroying corrupting, and stealing God's creation, thereby demonstrating himself to be powerful.
 
Captain Adverse said:
I responded correctly. I don't know if there is a personified "Satan." Examining it from a Judeo-Christian standpoint, his goal is to replace God by achieving universal supremacy and rule as an absolute despot able to do whatever on a whim. Everyone else of lesser power would be allowed to get whatever is left based solely on their own power to compel it.
Click to expand...
Isn't that what he does now?
 
Lucifer wanted God's power and glory. When God announced his plan for us, and the role that Jesus was to play in it, Lucifer put forth a different plan, in which he wanted to play the lead role. Lucifer led a failed rebellion against God, against Jesus, and against God's plan; and as a consequence, has been cast down, and forever denied the ability to progress to the mortal phase that we are now in, let alone anywhere beyond this phase.

As Satan, his fate is already sealed, and he knows that there is nothing that he can do to change it. All he seeks now, all he can seek, is revenge. He wants to damage interfere with God's plan, as much as he can, and to lead as many of us astray as he can. There is no reward for him to achieve, based on how much damage he does, other than the vengeful satisfaction that he hopes to take from it.
 
cpwill said:
Anger, hatred, and pride. Satan wishes to harm God by destroying corrupting, and stealing God's creation, thereby demonstrating himself to be powerful.
Click to expand...

But how could the alleged most powerful being in the universe (that created it) first off allow Satan to steal and influence his creations in the first place and secondly be allowed to... Do whatever he's supposed to do, tormenting people for eternity while God just watches on?

Doesn't any of that seem a little strange to you?
 
CLAX1911 said:
Ihave talked about thisquestion with many people and Iseem to get the same couple of answers.Normally in these three varieties. Satan wants your soul, to be god, or to destroy God.But my question is deeper than that. To what end? If he wants your soul, why,what does he do with these captured souls? If he wants to be God, how would his prospective kingdom differ from God's? If he wants to destroy God what would he do after that?
Click to expand...

What conversation do you want to have here? A biblical or a philosophical response? (They are not quite the same.)
 
CLAX1911 said:
Isn't that what he does now?
Click to expand...

Nope, because under the current status he is limited to ruling in Hell, and only influencing humanity as best he can. He is excluded from the greater universe (Heaven). That is the "struggle." To have absolutely NO limits on his exercise of power.
 
Wouldn't an all-powerful, all-knowing, ultimately aware creator have simply had the wherewithal to simply not create a being that lives to mock him and his creation?
 
Jetboogieman said:
But how could the alleged most powerful being in the universe (that created it) first off allow Satan to steal and influence his creations in the first place and secondly be allowed to... Do whatever he's supposed to do, tormenting people for eternity while God just watches on?

Doesn't any of that seem a little strange to you?
Click to expand...




I have an answer, but I am loathe to discuss theology in Philosophy.
 
Jetboogieman said:
But how could the alleged most powerful being in the universe (that created it) first off allow Satan to steal and influence his creations in the first place and secondly be allowed to... Do whatever he's supposed to do, tormenting people for eternity while God just watches on?

Doesn't any of that seem a little strange to you?
Click to expand...

It makes perfect sense to me, but then there is some insight that my religion gives, that I think may be absent from others.

God didn't create us as mere pets or playthings. We are literally his children, his heirs; created, ultimately, hopefully, to achieve all that he has.

To become what God means for us to become, we need to learn, we need to grow. We need to know good from evil, and we need to have the ability, at all times, to choose between them; and to be bound to the consequences of our choices.

This inevitably means that even without Satan's influence, some of us would make bad choices, and some of us would ultimately fail. Without the possibility of failure, a possibility of success could not exist.

Lucifer, of course, made some very, very bad decisions, and thus assured that he would fail. Now, all he has left, to give him any sense of purpose, is to try to influence as many as possible of the rest of us to fail with him.
 
Jetboogieman said:
But how could the alleged most powerful being in the universe (that created it) first off allow Satan to steal and influence his creations in the first place and secondly be allowed to... Do whatever he's supposed to do, tormenting people for eternity while God just watches on?

Doesn't any of that seem a little strange to you?
Click to expand...

No, because I reject your premise. God's not some absent landlord, just watching on, and Satan generally has power over us only to the extent that we let him.
 
CLAX1911 said:
But to what end?
Click to expand...

:shrug: when you are bitter and angry against someone, and seek to harm them, do you have a master plan? Or are you bitter and angry and seeking to harm them?

Does Satan know he's going to lose? Probably - though if humans are any evidence, the power to self-delude may be impressive. What's left? Revenge.
 
cpwill said:
No, because I reject your premise. God's not some absent landlord, just watching on, and Satan generally has power over us only to the extent that we let him.
Click to expand...

Not all Christians buy into the idea of hell and Satan.

And besides... does it really make sense, that for our, in the grand scheme of things short time on this Earth... no matter what we've done, really deserve an eternity being tormented by some dude and his minions because we made the most allegedly powerful being in the universe "angry".

Because yah know, when you can create infinity itself, apparently you get really, really pissed off sometimes.

And delegate the task of punishing for the infinity that you created, some dude who liked another dude and acted on it..

Remember, god loves all his children right?
 
CLAX1911 said:
Ihave talked about thisquestion with many people and Iseem to get the same couple of answers.Normally in these three varieties. Satan wants your soul, to be god, or to destroy God.But my question is deeper than that. To what end? If he wants your soul, why,what does he do with these captured souls? If he wants to be God, how would his prospective kingdom differ from God's? If he wants to destroy God what would he do after that?
Click to expand...

Putting my Jewish cap on:

Presumably, like all angels, he wants nothing more than to act as a faithful servant of god. He is the blessed accuser and hinderer, his purpose is to place challenges before people on behalf of God so that they might be tested and therefore continue to grow as individuals and as a community. Satan (literally the 'hinderer' in Hebrew) does not have agency, he is an instrument of God who serves the purpose of testing the loyalties and devotions of the Jewish people while simultaneously acting as an incorporeal tool for creating friction and want within ourselves in order that we might overcome our obstacles and grow.

He cannot, and does not, 'capture souls', he does not want your soul, he does not want to 'destroy' god. He is an agent of the divine, and according to some interpretations is merely an extension of the divine itself.

PS: Is it possible this thread would be better suited in the Religious forum?
 
Bob Blaylock said:
It makes perfect sense to me, but then there is some insight that my religion gives, that I think may be absent from others.

God didn't create us as mere pets or playthings. We are literally his children, his heirs; created, ultimately, hopefully, to achieve all that he has.

To become what God means for us to become, we need to learn, we need to grow. We need to know good from evil, and we need to have the ability, at all times, to choose between them; and to be bound to the consequences of our choices.

This inevitably means that even without Satan's influence, some of us would make bad choices, and some of us would ultimately fail. Without the possibility of failure, a possibility of success could not exist.

Lucifer, of course, made some very, very bad decisions, and thus assured that he would fail. Now, all he has left, to give him any sense of purpose, is to try to influence as many as possible of the rest of us to fail with him.
Click to expand...

Forgive me if I'm remembering incorrectly but you're a practicing Mormon correct? It was always my understanding that most streams of thought within the LDS church assert that relatively few individuals will actually become 'damned'. That is to say that very few will actually be condemned to an eternity of punishment or torment and that in the end the vast majority of us will be 'saved' even if we do not ascend to the same level of heavenly blessing as the righteous. Can you comment on that?
 
Sherman123 said:
Forgive me if I'm remembering incorrectly but you're a practicing Mormon correct? It was always my understanding that most streams of thought within the LDS church assert that relatively few individuals will actually become 'damned'. That is to say that very few will actually be condemned to an eternity of punishment or torment and that in the end the vast majority of us will be 'saved' even if we do not ascend to the same level of heavenly blessing as the righteous. Can you comment on that?
Click to expand...

That is, more or less, correct. Our view of the afterlife is more complex than the traditional Christian view, and doesn't really exactly map out to the traditional Heaven vs Hell model. The “Outer Darkness” is what, in our view, probably most corresponds to the traditional view of Hell. It's where Satan will go, and where those who sided with him during his rebellion in the preexistence will go, and where only the very, very worst of us who made it as far as this mortal existence will go.
 
Bob Blaylock said:
That is, more or less, correct. Our view of the afterlife is more complex than the traditional Christian view, and doesn't really exactly map out to the traditional Heaven vs Hell model. The “Outer Darkness” is what, in our view, probably most corresponds to the traditional view of Hell. It's where Satan will go, and where those who sided with him during his rebellion in the preexistence will go, and where only the very, very worst of us who made it as far as this mortal existence will go.
Click to expand...

Thank you for the confirmation.
 
Not to spoil the elaborate deliberations here, but who the heck is Satan?
 
Captain Adverse said:
Nope, because under the current status he is limited to ruling in Hell, and only influencing humanity as best he can. He is excluded from the greater universe (Heaven). That is the "struggle." To have absolutely NO limits on his exercise of power.
Click to expand...
Okay, to what end?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom