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What does Satan want?

CMPancake said:
Wouldn't an all-powerful, all-knowing, ultimately aware creator have simply had the wherewithal to simply not create a being that lives to mock him and his creation?
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That should serve as yet another clue that no Creator is all-powerful and all-knowing. These are myths that have crept into Christianity from Aquinas and Augustine.
 
Captain Adverse said:
Nope, because under the current status he is limited to ruling in Hell, and only influencing humanity as best he can. He is excluded from the greater universe (Heaven). That is the "struggle." To have absolutely NO limits on his exercise of power.
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Perfect Catholic view, thank you.
 
Bob Blaylock said:
Lucifer wanted God's power and glory. When God announced his plan for us, and the role that Jesus was to play in it, Lucifer put forth a different plan, in which he wanted to play the lead role. Lucifer led a failed rebellion against God, against Jesus, and against God's plan; and as a consequence, has been cast down, and forever denied the ability to progress to the mortal phase that we are now in, let alone anywhere beyond this phase.

As Satan, his fate is already sealed, and he knows that there is nothing that he can do to change it. All he seeks now, all he can seek, is revenge. He wants to damage interfere with God's plan, as much as he can, and to lead as many of us astray as he can. There is no reward for him to achieve, based on how much damage he does, other than the vengeful satisfaction that he hopes to take from it.
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According to Mormonism perhaps.

However if you study your own religion more carefully, you will see that it is not revenge that he seeks. it is greed that he seeks -- more and more souls -- same as a Wall Street tycoon.
 
cpwill said:
Anger, hatred, and pride. Satan wishes to harm God by destroying corrupting, and stealing God's creation, thereby demonstrating himself to be powerful.
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You are a bright person, CP.

So if you are going to quote SOME of the deadly sins you should therefore quote them ALL:

- gluttony
- greed
- sloth
- envy
- wrath
- pride
- lust.

Originally from Pope Gregory the same guy who gave us our current Western calendar.
 
Captain Adverse said:
I responded correctly. I don't know if there is a personified "Satan." Examining it from a Judeo-Christian standpoint, his goal is to replace God by achieving universal supremacy and rule as an absolute despot able to do whatever on a whim. Everyone else of lesser power would be allowed to get whatever is left based solely on their own power to compel it.
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Is that what the Catholic Church says?

I have always shied away from any study of Satan/Lucifer for fear of attracting it's attention to myself.

Seriously -- not kidding.
 
CLAX1911 said:
Appreciate the well thought out post,and I do agree.
But I was speaking about what does Satan want, not Satanists.

He already has the ability to do whatever he wants he can't possibly be more condemnedthan he is now. So there is something motivating him tobe chaos.
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The Mormons teach in their Book Of Mormon that Satan/Lucifer wants more and more souls so that he can sift them as wheat falling through his fingers. That's as good as any explanation as I have heard anywhere.
 
Captain Adverse said:
After much thought, I've come to the conclusion that the idea of Satan represents absolute anarchy; i.e. the complete freedom of the individual to do whatever he wishes within the limits of his own personal power to achieve. In other words, might makes right when it comes to action in complete hedonistic self-satisfaction.

It is the polar opposite of willing submission to rules meant to respect the existence/ rights of others.
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Might makes right is Aristotelian and was taught by Aristotle to Alexander before he became The Great.

It is a philosophy not a religion.
 
Summerwind said:
Not dwelling on and forgetting are two entirely different things in my world. Forgetting is a fool's choice. Not letting something ruin your day(s) is wise man's choice. The two are not the same. I also do not forgive, I just put as much personal distance between me and jerks as possible, in that way I suggest that a level of forgiveness has occurred as I don't harbor intent to go after them.
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Me too -- that's exactly what I do as well. I ostracize them.
 
CLAX1911 said:
Vengeance just seems too trite for the universe's worst being.
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Well like I explained -- it (Satan/Lucifer) is motivated by greed mostly.

Perhaps vicarious gluttony, envy, and lust as well. But mostly greed. It's kingdom is increased by greed.
 
Riveroaks said:
According to Mormonism perhaps.

However if you study your own religion more carefully, you will see that it is not revenge that he seeks. it is greed that he seeks -- more and more souls -- same as a Wall Street tycoon.
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Riveroaks said:
The Mormons teach in their Book Of Mormon that Satan/Lucifer wants more and more souls so that he can sift them as wheat falling through his fingers. That's as good as any explanation as I have heard anywhere.
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I must have missed this teaching. Can you tell me where I can find it in my scriptures?

I have to admit that much of my own view of Satan is from my own extrapolations, but if there's anything in my religion's scriptures that contradicts it, I have somehow missed that.

I think the view of Satan collecting souls, gaining any kind of glory or other benefit from them, of ruling over them and over Hell, is false. It is not his fate to rule over anything. Of all the damned souls, he is to be the lowest, the most damned, the most miserable. He knows that this is to be his fate, and he knows that he cannot evade it. His fate was sealed when he rebelled against God, before the Earth was formed.

He has nothing positive to gain. He has nothing but to seek revenge, to lead as many us as far astray as he can.
 
Bob Blaylock said:
I must have missed this teaching. Can you tell me where I can find it in my scriptures?

I have to admit that much of my own view of Satan is from my own extrapolations, but if there's anything in my religion's scriptures that contradicts it, I have somehow missed that.

I think the view of Satan collecting souls, gaining any kind of glory or other benefit from them, of ruling over them and over Hell, is false. It is not his fate to rule over anything. Of all the damned souls, he is to be the lowest, the most damned, the most miserable. He knows that this is to be his fate, and he knows that he cannot evade it. His fate was sealed when he rebelled against God, before the Earth was formed.

He has nothing positive to gain. He has nothing but to seek revenge, to lead as many us as far astray as he can.
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Oh jeeze -- it's in your Book Of Mormon. Just go to your church website and use their google search for the BOFM.
 
CLAX1911 said:
Ihave talked about thisquestion with many people and Iseem to get the same couple of answers.Normally in these three varieties. Satan wants your soul, to be god, or to destroy God.But my question is deeper than that. To what end? If he wants your soul, why,what does he do with these captured souls? If he wants to be God, how would his prospective kingdom differ from God's? If he wants to destroy God what would he do after that?
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To be God is an end in itself.
 
Riveroaks said:
Oh jeeze -- it's in your Book Of Mormon. Just go to your church website and use their google search for the BOFM.
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It is not my responsibilty to support your claim. If you claim that the Book of Mormon says something, then you provide the reference.
 
Summerwind said:
Then it's terribly clear that as a general rule upon this planet, Satan is doing quite well and God is a total failure.
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Without a belief in God, would Satan even exist?
 
CMPancake said:
Wouldn't an all-powerful, all-knowing, ultimately aware creator have simply had the wherewithal to simply not create a being that lives to mock him and his creation?
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The purpose of hell and Satan is to have a place for the wicked during the day of judgement. In essence, Satan is a means to further glorify God.
 
Moot said:
Without a belief in God, would Satan even exist?
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Moot my beloved friend, are you going to make me look up the fallacy that pertains to this?

In other words, whatever exists in the Universe exists. It does not matter if we believe it exists or not. It still exists or does not exist whether we ourselves believe it exists or not. To think otherwise is a fallacy on my fallacy list somewhere in my thread on fallacies.
 
Jetboogieman said:
Not all Christians buy into the idea of hell and Satan.

And besides... does it really make sense, that for our, in the grand scheme of things short time on this Earth... no matter what we've done, really deserve an eternity being tormented by some dude and his minions because we made the most allegedly powerful being in the universe "angry".

Because yah know, when you can create infinity itself, apparently you get really, really pissed off sometimes.

And delegate the task of punishing for the infinity that you created, some dude who liked another dude and acted on it..

Remember, god loves all his children right?
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God is a loving god with infinite mercy, until you die, then you're ****ed for all of eternity to be tortured by the being he created, in the place he created, with no chance of reprieve or forgiveness. How dare you pick the wrong religion of hundreds. Makes sense.

sookster said:
The purpose of hell and Satan is to have a place for the wicked during the day of judgement. In essence, Satan is a means to further glorify God.
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It's a place for the wicked, along with all of the good people who simply picked the wrong religion. Billions of billions of people who led moral lives will be tortured for all of eternity right next to the rapists and murderers because they picked the wrong religion of the hundreds available. Grandma Sally who never hurt a fly is burning right next to Hitler.
 
Riveroaks said:
Moot my beloved friend, are you going to make me look up the fallacy that pertains to this?

In other words, whatever exists in the Universe exists. It does not matter if we believe it exists or not. It still exists or does not exist whether we ourselves believe it exists or not. To think otherwise is a fallacy on my fallacy list somewhere in my thread on fallacies.
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Go on, mak...look it up then... There is no god, then it follows that the rest of the fable falls too.
 
Riveroaks said:
That should serve as yet another clue that no Creator is all-powerful and all-knowing. These are myths that have crept into Christianity from Aquinas and Augustine.
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So if god is fallible, why worship him? Why worship a man who brought the epitome of evil into this world and seemingly has done little to stop him. (Hell in the Book of Job, God encourages mentioned evil behavior.) If there was a god to kneel to, the Judeo-Christian god seems like the worst of the gods to worship.

sookster said:
The purpose of hell and Satan is to have a place for the wicked during the day of judgement. In essence, Satan is a means to further glorify God.
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That just sounds even more immoral. You don't pay the school yard bully to give your child a wedgie so your child can appreciate you.
 
Manc Skipper said:
... There is no god, then it follows that the rest of the fable falls too.
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You have segued (seg-wayed) over to religion while at the same time confused it with philosophy.

That is the same fallacy that Aquinas and Augustine did -- confusing philosophy with Christianity.
 
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CMPancake said:
So if god is fallible, why worship him? Why worship a man who brought the epitome of evil into this world and seemingly has done little to stop him. (Hell in the Book of Job, God encourages mentioned evil behavior.) If there was a god to kneel to, the Judeo-Christian god seems like the worst of the gods to worship...
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Because He/She/They are/is the Creator who created you. You owe Them/Him/Her for that much at least.

So what if you are more on your own than you thought? You're still alive right? You were still given life and breath.

And you will be required to return these gifts at death.

Another point of order -- I stopped confusing the Jewish God(YHVH) with the Christian God(s) (Father/Son/Holy Spirit) a long time ago. Big very big difference there.
 
Manc Skipper said:
Go on, mak...look it up then... .
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I try to encourage people to study the list of fallacies themselves so that they can become familiar with them all.

There are many.

The list was first originated by Aristotle who was trying to dissect why rhetoricians and politicians are so clever at fooling their listeners.

The list has been added to by subsequent philosophers ever since.

Mac.
 
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