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I identify as....

celticwar17 said:
She didn't lie because race is not something that is concrete... you cannopt scientifically prove you are a certain race or not because there are no standards for doing so. The human race is largely interconnected genetically and culturally.

This exposes the true flaw of the old racist system we still adopt today.... race is just a social concept, not a scientific one.
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She didn't just lie about her race, she misrepresented someone as her father, and, her brother as her son. Furthermore, race is absolutely concrete, but only for the purposes of anthropology, and this is absolutely provable through DNA analysis. The only race that matters is the human race, IMHO. :)
 
RAMOSS said:
When it comes to the 'identify as a woman', there is evidence of a physical structure in the brain that controls gender body image. This does not appear to be something that can be changed. It also happens right from the early childhood. It happens through all cultures, all ethic groups and both genders.

I can't say the same about identifying yourself as an African american, a Caucasian , or Hispanic.
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Why not? This crap isn't about biology. It's about feelings and if this chick feels like she's Black then why not let her be black? It doesn't hurt anyone, right?
 
countryboy said:
She didn't just lie about her race, she misrepresented someone as her father, and, her brother as her son. Furthermore, race is absolutely concrete, but only for the purposes of anthropology, and this is absolutely provable through DNA analysis. The only race that matters is the human race, IMHO. :)
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You are wrong... it is not absolute, I cannot stress this enough...

Sociology and anthropology is great for abiguous/undefined groups NOT INDIVIDUALS... THEY ARE NOT... a study of individuals... it falls apart when brought to individuals...

If this was brought to court, there is no way ANY scientist and definitively prove someone is white or not... all the can say is that maybe, 0.000003% are mutations from europe and INdia, 0.000005% from asia, 1-E54 % from afrrica...We have no rules to determine what percentage of any sort of genes declares someone is white or not.
 
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countryboy said:
I don't think anyone has said she couldn't. It's the lying that has some of us questioning her actions. Identifying and posing as are two different things.
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She doesn't think she's lying any more than Jenner does.

The whole damned world has gone Twilight Zone.
 
celticwar17 said:
Actually, that is a myth...
While there are some genetic tendencies that cross certain ethnic groups, there is no standard and there are a lot of exceptions and genetic mixing.
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celticwar17 said:
Tell me the white gene?

The gene or sequence of genes that makes someone white, and not something else... again... you can't because culturally "white" people have a big mix of genes themselves coming from everywhere. As soon as you set a standard ...you exclude a huge population you may or may not think is White
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That's cool, perhaps I am misinformed. I'm not too proud to admit when I'm wrong. I'll look into it as time allows, thanks. :)
 
Lutherf said:
She doesn't think she's lying any more than Jenner does.

The whole damned world has gone Twilight Zone.
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As I said in another post, I don't really care that she lied about being black, it's the lying about others that bothers me.
 
celticwar17 said:
You are wrong... it is not absolute, I cannot stress this enough...

Sociology and anthropology is great for abiguous/undefined groups NOT INDIVIDUALS... THEY ARE NOT... a study of individuals... it falls apart when brought to individuals...

If this was brought to court, there is no way ANY scientist and definitively prove someone is white or not... all the can say is that maybe, 0.000003% are mutations from europe and INdia, 0.000005% from asia, 1-E54 % from afrrica...We have no rules to determine what percentage of any sort of genes declares someone is white or not.
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It's certainly possible, there was that one other time. :mrgreen:

You've given me food for thought, thanks again. :)
 
Dragonfly said:
-- why can't a white lady identify as an "African-American" ???
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michael-plastic.jpg


This has happened before - however in the case of Dolezal, the lies and hurt to her parents (pretending someone else was her father) are the bit that stick in the craw.
 
Infinite Chaos said:
michael-plastic.jpg


This has happened before - however in the case of Dolezal, the lies and hurt to her parents (pretending someone else was her father) are the bit that stick in the craw.
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Good Lord, what a tragic figure Jackson was. :( He was a good lookin' kid.
 
Infinite Chaos said:
michael-plastic.jpg


This has happened before - however in the case of Dolezal, the lies and hurt to her parents (pretending someone else was her father) are the bit that stick in the craw.
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Well, Idk if that is something to judge about... I have no idea why they had a falling out, but it is obvious they did.... and I wouldn't be surprised if it's because she had a black boyfriend/husband.
 
countryboy said:
It's certainly possible, there was that one other time. :mrgreen:

You've given me food for thought, thanks again. :)
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Well, thanks for being so humble... I now worry if I was sounding too condescending. It's just something I'm passionate about actuall... If you find something that proves otherwise I'd like to see it... but then there are other questions that arise if that is the case...and I don't think they are good ones.

Let's say we could prove someone is of some race.... Ill continue in post below.
 
celticwar17 said:
Well, thanks for being so humble... I now worry if I was sounding too condescending. It's just something I'm passionate about actually
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Naw, you're fine. No offense taken. :)
 
celticwar17 said:
Well, Idk if that is something to judge about... I have no idea why they had a falling out, but it is obvious they did.... and I wouldn't be surprised if it's because she had a black boyfriend/husband.
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She said:
She defended having claimed to some friends that a black man, Albert Wilkerson, was her father.

"Albert Wilkerson is my dad. Any man can be a father, not every man can be a dad," she said.
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I'm guessing that's rather a insulting comment to her biological father....
 
Dragonfly said:
Brain and body image certainly can go hand-and-hand with race/ethnicity/culture. The difference here is this is something new.
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Yes, this is something new.. since she was not brought up as the specific race/ethnicity/culture. Those are learned behaviors (well race isn't).

There is a specific brain structure that is involved with gender identification.
 
Fearandloathing said:
Really?

This is what Americans are talking about today?


Way too much time on someone's hands
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:roll:

And yet here you are - adding what to the discussion?

:roll:

I guess you have even even more time on your hands than we do. :2wave:
 
Lutherf said:
I agree. Now can we get rid of all these ridiculous civil rights laws?
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When the social construct goes away, then we can.
 
celticwar17 said:
Well, Idk if that is something to judge about... I have no idea why they had a falling out, but it is obvious they did.... and I wouldn't be surprised if it's because she had a black boyfriend/husband.
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I don't think it is, her parents adopted black children. That's why she has a black brother, the one she lied about, claiming he was her son.

Her parents look pretty happy in this picture from her wedding.

298E485200000578-0-image-a-71_1434087710551.jpg
 
countryboy said:
I actually feel bad for her. Especially when I watched the video of her first being confronted by the press and she realized she was busted.
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I can't say that I feel bad about a liar getting caught but she's obviously a head case and I do have sympathy along those lines.
 
DifferentDrummr said:
You want to be able to tell people to leave your restaurant because you don't like their skin color? :confused:
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If skin color is simply a construct of how we feel on the inside then I'll gladly kick all y'all out for being Black!!:lamo
 
Is she a fraud?

Should she be sued for being a fraud and possibly profiting from it?

Or is she now basically reaping what she sowed, and that's fair turn-around for lying to people for decades?

Or - is she being treated unfairly?
 
countryboy said:
Naw, you're fine. No offense taken. :)
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I sent a post prematurely

"If you find something that proves otherwise I'd like to see it... but then there are other questions that arise if that is the case...and I don't think they are good ones.

Let's say we could prove someone is of some race.... Ill continue in post below.

If this became a big enough issue publicly where someone would have to prove or be proven against that they are a certain race or they are not... How would be go about that in a court of law?
Let's pretend that we could-

-Issuing genetic tests? Pick out gene mutations that are well known to originate from northern europe, like blue eyes/ blonde hair, but unfortunately there are people of all races that have blonde hair and blue eyes through genetic mixing... Do we do it as a percentage? Like "okay, this person, out of their distinct genetic mutations(that we have approved as coming from a certain geographic area through extensive debate and study) about 55% comes from Europe/India 25% from Asia 20% from africa... the majority of mutations come from Europe, So this human must be declared of the White breed!".."This one has 36% African, 30% European/Indian, 34%Asian... this guy is of African breed"
Does that seem correct to you?

-A color real? We grab a shade color real from home depot and draw a line on what we determine is black or white... "(160, 32, 32) this guy is definitely black!!! (160, 45,20) This guy is white, but it's close... you should put more sunscreen on, dude, to make sure your race doesn't change..."

-A culture test?
"What was Biggy's first album??? "..."Uhmmm Ready to die?",says nervous "black" man.... "THAT"S IT SIR!!! YOU PASS...Your black! WELCOME!!!"

"What popular country star sings this phrase,"Honkey Tonk ba-Donka Donk" ...."Trace Akins?"...says nervous asian man..."Sir you are officially a southern college white woman, congrats"

-A culture Panel of a 100 people having the same racial make-up as the country (15 black, 25 hispanic,55 white, 5 asian) And they all vote if they consider the person is black or white or whatever...this could be a funny skit...


Good thing race is not scientifically backed, or we could run into the problem above...race doesn't exist at all except for our brainwash social customed brains...
 
The only real true about race is .... is you are whatever race what someone else perceives you to be...
 
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