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But What If You're Wrong ...

A

axmann

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If I'm wrong and there's no eternity ,no blissful existence after death as a result of my faith in God ,what have I lost? nothing.

I gained nothing, but I gave up little in the present life; all I sacrificed were things any decent person would have done.

But what if I'm right and did the right thing and reaped an eternal reward in the future life , but you were wrong! You gained really nothing in this world but just a good deal of misery and lawlessness and for that you lost an eternity of sublime existence.
And you could've had it all for just an honest understanding of true religion. Something you rejected ;something that would've cost you little but for which you now remain apart from God and in a terrible place forever and ever.

Why play the odds ,when eternity is so long..
 
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Oh hey it's Pascal's Wager, haven't seen that one in a while.

Why should I worship Christianity before I die to go to Heaven? What if Judism or Islam were the right faith? What if they're both completely wrong and it was Hinduism were right? What if the only way to get to heaven was through the sacrifice of a virgin? It's complete non-sense to start a premise like this assuming your religion is "correct" because you have no proof of being accurate plain and simple.
 
If you need the promise of "eternal life" in order to be a decent person, you're doing it wrong.
 
Kobie said:
If you need the promise of "eternal life" in order to be a decent person, you're doing it wrong.
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All I'm saying is for you to consider the :" What If?" and of course the odds vs. the payoff.
 
CMPancake said:
Oh hey it's Pascal's Wager, haven't seen that one in a while.

Why should I worship Christianity before I die to go to Heaven? What if Judism or Islam were the right faith? What if they're both completely wrong and it was Hinduism were right? What if the only way to get to heaven was through the sacrifice of a virgin? It's complete non-sense to start a premise like this assuming your religion is "correct" because you have no proof of being accurate plain and simple.
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That's why I suggested that you consider TRUE RELIGION!
 
School's out early this year.
 
Kobie said:
Pascal's Wager.
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But what if you are wrong and I am right? you do admit that you will lose a great deal an eternal amount.. do you?
 
axmann said:
But what if you are wrong and I am right? you do admit that you will lose a great deal an eternal amount.. do you?
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What if you're wrong and I'm right? You just wasted your entire life worshiping a nonexistent deity.

I've weighed the evidence of a God and found it wanting. And that's all I'm going to say about it, since I know the actual rules of this subforum.
 
axmann said:
But what if you are wrong and I am right? you do admit that you will lose a great deal an eternal amount.. do you?
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If you make your choices based solely on the "what if", then you are living your life in fear. It is perfectly fine that you do that, but not everyone will be inclined to do the same. If someone is willing to take the chance that they may be wrong, then that is their choice to make, and it should not cause you any grief.
 
axmann said:
All I'm saying is for you to consider the :" What If?" and of course the odds vs. the payoff.
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What makes you think that people who reject a given religious position haven't considered it? I've spent a lot of time studying, pondering and meditating and even praying on religious subjects. That I've come to a different conclusion to you is really my business. thanks for your concern, but I'll rely on my own conscience for how to live a good life. To me, a life lived as a kind of prep course for something better after death seems like no life worth living at all.
 
lizzie said:
If you make your choices based solely on the "what if", then you are living your life in fear. It is perfectly fine that you do that, but not everyone will be inclined to do the same. If someone is willing to take the chance that they may be wrong, then that is their choice to make, and it should not cause you any grief.
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It doesn't cause me any grief ,whatsoever. We're not talking about a bad day at the nickel slots but an eternity in a terrible place.

Few are inclined to place the bet . at any odds. So don't complain already.
 
Andalublue said:
What makes you think that people who reject a given religious position haven't considered it? I've spent a lot of time studying, pondering and meditating and even praying on religious subjects. That I've come to a different conclusion to you is really my business. thanks for your concern, but I'll rely on my own conscience for how to live a good life. To me, a life lived as a kind of prep course for something better after death seems like no life worth living at all.
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The point is different. Living a good life is everyone's reasonable service. You gain by doing so..

I'm asking you to look at the odds if you are WRONG!!!
 
axmann said:
It doesn't cause me any grief ,whatsoever. We're not talking about a bad day at the nickel slots but an eternity in a terrible place.

Few are inclined to place the bet . at any odds. So don't complain already.
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I'm not complaining. It makes absolutely no difference to me what you believe.
 
lizzie said:
I'm not complaining. It makes absolutely no difference to me what you believe.
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the problem is that people do complain.. They live a life rejecting God and then when stuff happens guess what they do...they complain and to the God they had totally rejected.. Sorry but its tooooo LATE!
 
axmann said:
the problem is that people do complain.. They live a life rejecting God and then when stuff happens guess what they do...they complain and to the God they had totally rejected.. Sorry but its tooooo LATE!
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Well, when you see me doing that, you're welcome to come and point it out. It won't happen. I have already been stripped of the most precious thing in my life, almost 20 years ago. I didn't blame God, I didn't try to play Let's Make a Deal. I just put my big girl panties on and lived with it.
 
lizzie said:
Well, when you see me doing that, you're welcome to come and point it out. It won't happen. I have already been stripped of the most precious thing in my life, almost 20 years ago. I didn't blame God, I didn't try to play Let's Make a Deal. I just put my big girl panties on and lived with it.
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God cares...
 
axmann said:
The point is different. Living a good life is everyone's reasonable service. You gain by doing so..

I'm asking you to look at the odds if you are WRONG!!!
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If I'm wrong then I'll take the consequences, as will you if you are wrong and are condemned to Gehenna for not recognising Mohammed, or become a hungry ghost due to having wasted your life and learning nothing, or simply cease to exist having wasted your one and only life in pursuing a lie. We are all fallible and statistically the vast majority of us are going to be wrong about what happens to us after death, since no single belief system commands anything like unanimity. So, are you arguing that we should choose that belief system that threatens the very worst consequences to those who refuse to fall in line, just in case it's right?
 
axmann said:
If I'm wrong and there's no eternity ,no blissful existence after death as a result of my faith in God ,what have I lost? nothing.
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You will have lost your intellectual integrity ... claiming something is true when it isn't. Other people may consider this important or not. But your claim would be either true or false. How people would react to that kind of claim is irrelevant to the truth value of the claim.
 
Moderator's Warning:
Moved to the Philosophy Discussion forum, as a topic such as this has no business in the Religion forum as reasoanble topical responses would be barred per it's ruleset.

THAT SAID...the proper way of dealing with that is to Report the Post and wait for it to be moved, not simply ignore the religious forum rules. Thank you to the poster that actually did that. To those that didn't, consider this the only pass you're going to get from me.
 
axmann said:
All I'm saying is for you to consider the :" What If?" and of course the odds vs. the payoff.
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What if the Christians are wrong and the Hindus are right?
 
axmann said:
If I'm wrong and there's no eternity ,no blissful existence after death as a result of my faith in God ,what have I lost? nothing.

I gained nothing, but I gave up little in the present life; all I sacrificed were things any decent person would have done.

But what if I'm right and did the right thing and reaped an eternal reward in the future life , but you were wrong! You gained really nothing in this world but just a good deal of misery and lawlessness and for that you lost an eternity of sublime existence.
And you could've had it all for just an honest understanding of true religion. Something you rejected ;something that would've cost you little but for which you now remain apart from God and in a terrible place forever and ever.

Why play the odds ,when eternity is so long..
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Not true. You have just as much to lose as any atheist.

There are dozens of gods that send you to some kind of place of torture for doing or believing the wrong thing -- and your religion would be wrong by all of them except your own. You share the same risk I do.

There are billions of possible gods, most never described by humans, none of which have any credible evidence which means we have no way of knowing how likely any of them are, and you don't believe in 99.99999...% of them. Your risk of being wrong is exactly the same as mine, for all intents and purposes.
 
The flaw in the OP is the assertion that being devout and religious doesn't cost anything. Nothing that "any decent person" wouldn't give up. That's a very flawed assertion. It would mean sacrificing everything that's important, including any personal liberty we might enjoy. Serving this god-king or facing torture? That calls on us to pretty much be the ultimate Patrick Henry. "Give me liberty or give me death", only death won't even let us escape this tyrant. Our choices are servitude or the fire, give up on science or the fire, agree that women are fundamentally beneath men or the fire, condemn our gay brothers and sisters or the fire, teach sexual self-loathing to children or the fire.

No. Decency compels us to reject this terrible god at whatever cost. Even if I thought for an instant that this god existed, I would never seek to submit myself to such a cruel tyrant. I could never allow myself to be the kind of person that this evil creature wants us to be. The only way to be decent and to be a good person and to live a good life is to reject the principles that this god would have us follow.

If I am wrong, then the universe is a miserable place and we are slaves from the moment of our conception, subjected to never-ending subjugation. If you are wrong, then we are free to make whatever we will of ourselves, and to perpetually strive to be better.
 
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