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Why do we have something instead of nothing at all?

zyzygy said:
How is this personal conscience carried on from one life to the next?
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I have no idea.

zyzygy said:
Do you believe in reincarnation?
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I don't know. I don't think it matters if I believe in it or not anyway. If it's real then my disbelief doesn't stop it. If it is not real then my belief doesn't start it.
 
Radical said:
I don't think everything needs a cause for existence. Existence itself doesn't need a cause. How can existence become existing prior to existence existing (lol at the syntax).
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So why must the universe have a cause then?
 
spud_meister said:
So why must the universe have a cause then?
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Because the universe is not existence. There is nothing about matter itself that leads anyone to believe it exists innately.
 
Paschendale said:




Straight from the mouth of one of the foremost experts on that very question in the entire world.
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Krauss is awesome, saw him and Dawkins speak. And he is a professor at my alma mater.
 
Radical said:
Because the universe is not existence. There is nothing about matter itself that leads anyone to believe it exists innately.
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Right. States of reality are not necessary, they are contingent. (ie, they could have been otherwise, ie they simply are....for no reason.)
 
Arcana XV said:
Which is why the "eternal" creator idea makes no sense either. Where did it/she/he/them come from? Nothing?
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If course it does makes perfect sense. If there is one who's eternal - that would be the Creator!
He doesn't have to come from anything - He ALWAYS IS!

If He isn't eternal and He came from something, then He's also a a creation - which doesn't makes sense.
That means, He isn't the Creator.


And being the Creator, He can do whatever He wants with His creation.


Think of Him as a game developer! He can make all the rules how His game is going to be played.


That also explains all the laws (like the law of thermo dynamics as an example) - who do you think had set those in place? And most importantly, why is it being followed by the universe?

The universe operates according to laws! The laws of nature are not exclusive to earth! The entire universe follows the same laws....and these laws never change.
 
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Jerry said:
I just wanted to point out that Santa was a real person.
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Not the Santa Claus living in the North Pole, who has a red-nosed reindeer and a magic sleigh, etc.,
 
Sorry Beefheart - my notification says you responded - but I can't access your response. I tried several times, it just won't show.
 
tosca1 said:
Why is the universe here? Why is the earth here? Why are we here?

Why not nothing?


How do you answer that?
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There is no why. It just is. Westerners tend to believe that things happen for a reason. In reality, they just happen.
 
opendebate said:
There is no why. It just is. Westerners tend to believe that things happen for a reason. In reality, they just happen.
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How do you know for certain that "they just happen?"

If there is no "harmony" in everything (I can't grasp the right word to use right now), that we even have the laws of nature (that the whole universe follows), then yeah....we can assume that things might've just happened to be.

But the fact that there are laws - which means that there is some design involved - leans heavily towards having a reason for all these.
The reason may not be what we think it is, though - but who knows?
 
tosca1 said:
How do you know for certain that "they just happen?"

If there is no "harmony" in everything (I can't grasp the right word to use right now), that we even have the laws of nature (that the whole universe follows), then yeah....we can assume that things might've just happened to be.

But the fact that there are laws - which means that there is some design involved - leans heavily towards having a reason for all these.
The reason may not be what we think it is, though - but who knows?
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I don't know "for certain".

It is my option that in reality there is little "harmony"....what harmony exists does so because a combination of random events just happen to allow those random events to continue, creating the illusion of "harmony" .

The only "law" of nature is what aids some event in it's capacity to continue to occur. What laws of nature are you referring too and why does an outcomes contribution to the survival of those who accompany it imply design?
 
opendebate said:
I don't know "for certain".

It is my option that in reality there is little "harmony"....what harmony exists does so because a combination of random events just happen to allow those random events to continue, creating the illusion of "harmony" .

The only "law" of nature is what aids some event in it's capacity to continue to occur. What laws of nature are you referring too and why does an outcomes contribution to the survival of those who accompany it imply design?
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Law of physics. Mathematics.


"Orderly!" Yeah....why is the universe orderly?
 
tosca1 said:
Law of physics. Mathematics.


"Orderly!" Yeah....why is the universe orderly?
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You have things backwards. It merely "appears" to be orderly. Random events just happen to have collided, out of pure chance, in an order that has secured their continued (for the moment at least) existence. There is no "order" and so then they are executed. There are only observable outcomes that we impose ourselves on.
 
the_recruit said:
Right. States of reality are not necessary, they are contingent. (ie, they could have been otherwise, ie they simply are....for no reason.)
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You used the word contingent! You get a like. =)

So contingent means dependent. And yes, I think the fact that matter exists is logically dependent upon something external.
 
tosca1 said:
If course it does makes perfect sense. If there is one who's eternal - that would be the Creator!
He doesn't have to come from anything - He ALWAYS IS!

If He isn't eternal and He came from something, then He's also a a creation - which doesn't makes sense.
That means, He isn't the Creator.
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He can still be "a" creator, himself the product of a higher creator. How do you know something else didn't create your creator?


And being the Creator, He can do whatever He wants with His creation.


Think of Him as a game developer! He can make all the rules how His game is going to be played.


That also explains all the laws (like the law of thermo dynamics as an example) - who do you think had set those in place? And most importantly, why is it being followed by the universe?

The universe operates according to laws! The laws of nature are not exclusive to earth! The entire universe follows the same laws....and these laws never change.
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Sorry, no. The game developer analogy doesn't work. He has parents who "created" him. Who created your creator? And don't tell me that "he always is", because if something is capable of "always being" it could be any number of things other than a lone creator.
 
opendebate said:
You have things backwards. It merely "appears" to be orderly. Random events just happen to have collided, out of pure chance, in an order that has secured their continued (for the moment at least) existence. There is no "order" and so then they are executed. There are only observable outcomes that we impose ourselves on.
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Pure chance, yeah right! :roll: Check this out.

posts #616 and #620. ESPECIALLY #620!

http://www.debatepolitics.com/science-and-technology/207258-intelligent-design-new-evidence-62.html


And the other following videos, too.
 
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Based on other threads (atheistic belief, evolution, and origin), one thing quite noticeable had emerged.....


......atheists seem to be drawn to believe in things that are not supported by anything at all.
 
tosca1 said:
Why is the universe here? Why is the earth here? Why are we here?

Why not nothing?


How do you answer that?
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Why would you need to? Curiosity's good, but not if it becomes obsessive, and fretting about something which is unknowable seems counter-productive.
 
POPCORN time!!! I'd like to invite everyone interested to watch this. I haven't watched it yet....but will do.

Krauss vs Craig.



 
tosca1 said:
Why is the universe here? Why is the earth here? Why are we here?

Why not nothing?


How do you answer that?
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Because it is here. There are many theories on how the universe came to be. The earth formed as any of the other rocky planets formed in the universe. We're here because our parents had sex.
 
Radical said:
For human beings. Cause and effect is important to rational creatures. Rationality without an understanding of cause and effect is an oxymoron. And this rationality, specifically cause and effect, allows us to understand "something does not come from nothing". Thus, our rationality begets the knowledge of a Creator. Nothing has to do with faith or belief.
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It's not knowledge. Your suppositions assume a creator. But nothing in nature demands one.
 
Radical said:
That wasn't the question asked. It didn't ask about the meaning of life. It asked about existence.

I think that the Christian could argue that there is no meaning in this life. Life is so chaotic and non-uptopian. Who can make sense of it? What would really be worthwhile? If I were to build a glorious, moral, scientific empire, I would die knowing that it would crumble into dust one day. There is no meaning in this life.
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It's hard, it's difficult to understand, it's finite; ergo no meaning. Interesting. Thankfully aggregate human society hasn't behaved like this, even though everything is doomed to death, this life has plenty of meaning and untold worth. Because it's hard, because it's finite, because it's difficult to understand; life becomes more than the sum of its parts. I feel sorry for anyone who cannot find worth in this life and this existence, in their consciousness. And while it does suck that it will end one day, nothing is infinite and it doesn't mean we can't have a positive impact and a good life in the process.
 
Arcana XV said:
Eternal, as of yet unanswerable questions. As for me personally, I've stopped asking myself these questions, or more to the point, I've stopped caring about why. Life is pretty cool and interesting as it is, although I wish we lived twice as long as we do. I don't need to know why anymore. No matter where you look for the answers you end up with more questions than you started with. Religion and philosophy don't even try to answer these questions and science can only go so far. No matter what, you're stuck with the eternal conundrum: where did it ALL come from, including the hypothetical creator? And as spud said, if you just assume that something can be eternal, why does it have to be the creator? Why can't it be the universe itself?
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There is a line from Cat’s Cradle that I love and I think it explains religion perfectly. Tosca’s OP is proof of that.

Tiger got to hunt, bird got to fly
Man got to sit and wonder, “Why why why?”
Tiger got to sleep, bird got to land
Man got to tell himself he understand

To question why is innate to humanity, it’s what we do. Because we ask the question, we have driven our species to heights never dreamed of in the animal kingdom. But while it is our nature to ask why, it is our drive that we understand. That at the end of the day we can make sense of the why’s, that we can understand this world we live in. There are some questions we don’t know the answers to, some we can’t find the answers to; but we still need to tell ourselves we understand. So gods were born to explain that which we could not, so we could make sense of the world and give order where there is none.

In fact, I theorize that religion is a by-product of intelligence, curiosity, and empathy; the very founding blocks of humanity itself. Any species of sufficient intelligence and curiosity will develop religion of sorts. Tiger got to hunt, bird got to fly.
 
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