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Proof God Does Not Answer Prayer

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rhinefire

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A plane is flying with a mad man at the controls. 149 people sense all is wrong as the craft descends in the middle of a mountain range. All begin eight minutes of prayer and scream for God to help and his answer was "I'm not in right now. Please leave a message and I'll get back to you as soon as possible. Good bye". When will people of faith know there is no one to help them but themselves?
 
Oh looky, another Christian bashing thread in the "philosophical discussions" forum. Most unusual. :roll:
 
A plane is flying with a mad man at the controls. 149 people sense all is wrong as the craft descends in the middle of a mountain range. All begin eight minutes of prayer and scream for God to help and his answer was "I'm not in right now. Please leave a message and I'll get back to you as soon as possible. Good bye". When will people of faith know there is no one to help them but themselves?
:naughty
No, that is proof of the way G_d wanted to bring them home.

Shame on folks for selfishly trying to change his mind.
 
A plane is flying with a mad man at the controls. 149 people sense all is wrong as the craft descends in the middle of a mountain range. All begin eight minutes of prayer and scream for God to help and his answer was "I'm not in right now. Please leave a message and I'll get back to you as soon as possible. Good bye". When will people of faith know there is no one to help them but themselves?

You do understand that your example alone cannot in itself be proof of "God" not answering prayers. In a philosophical context there is a paradox when humanity decides on their own what prayers God should and should not answer, and you walked right into it.

The condition is the exact alternative to the condition you have presented. What about a family that prays to God that their child with cancer survives? Some do, some do not. In that context then we cannot know, and should not speculate, that prayer to God was or was not the defining reason why one child did survive against the odds and another set of parents went to a grave side for the most painful thing anyone can experience. Burying a child.

The only reasonable conclusion, which stands by philosophical reasoning, is that answered prayer is not evidence of God (or alternatively, that God answers prayer) any more than unanswered prayer is evidence there is no God (or alternatively, that God does not answer prayer.)

The reality is good things will happen to bad people just as much as bad things will happen to good people, all without much reasoning as to why the condition occurs. To go to the next step and suggest a sort of puppet interaction with deity based upon what is or is not answered does not cover the condition, nor really give us an out for the condition. From a singular point of view for some event it might, but with so much pointing to the contrary there is no real method for humanity to agree or not agree with what is and is not answered prayer.

A pure philosophical challenge for you. If we could devise a way to understand why God does answer some prayer and ignores other, then what would be the point in any system of belief?
 
A plane is flying with a mad man at the controls. 149 people sense all is wrong as the craft descends in the middle of a mountain range. All begin eight minutes of prayer and scream for God to help and his answer was "I'm not in right now. Please leave a message and I'll get back to you as soon as possible. Good bye". When will people of faith know there is no one to help them but themselves?


Since prayer is oft a private and personal matter, I can only speak for myself. Sorry, I can't relate my own experience(s) with your message. I've got major prayers answered, some of them almost immediately.

I had a prayer answered regarding a very critical matter in December of 2013. I'm not ready to get into details about it yet.
It was so serious an incident that I also did a 12 hour fast (explaining to God that I've never fasted before so I didn't strive for the 24 hour fasting, fearing that I might not be able to do it). The thing that I remember is the feeling of calm.....some kind of "reassuring" feeling about it....a sense that everything will be fine.

I feel so grateful and thankful, my Lord. Praise and glory be to You.
 
A plane is flying with a mad man at the controls. 149 people sense all is wrong as the craft descends in the middle of a mountain range. All begin eight minutes of prayer and scream for God to help and his answer was "I'm not in right now. Please leave a message and I'll get back to you as soon as possible. Good bye". When will people of faith know there is no one to help them but themselves?

The real evidence that there is no god was the holocaust. 6 million of his own people praying and suffering, and he wouldn't lift a single finger to do anything about it. Mortal men with everything to lose took fate into their own hands and risked their own lives to end the holocaust. What blows my mind is the religious who are so arrogant to think that god managed to ignore 6 million murders of his own people, but that he's going to intervene in their piddly ass problems.

Since prayer is oft a private and personal matter, I can only speak for myself. Sorry, I can't relate my own experience(s) with your message. I've got major prayers answered, some of them almost immediately.


I had a prayer answered regarding a very critical matter in December of 2013. I'm not ready to get into details about it yet.
It was so serious an incident that I also did a 12 hour fast (explaining to God that I've never fasted before so I didn't strive for the 24 hour fasting, fearing that I might not be able to do it). The thing that I remember is the feeling of calm.....some kind of "reassuring" feeling about it....a sense that everything will be fine.


I feel so grateful and thankful, my Lord. Praise and glory be to You.


Here's one now. You seriously think that he ignores the prayers of people being tortured and murdered but he answers your prayers because you're special? Maybe the Jews in the concentration camps didn't starve themselves enough to appease him?
 
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:naughty
No, that is proof of the way G_d wanted to bring them home.

Shame on folks for selfishly trying to change his mind.

Why not just make them appear in heaven? Why did he need them to feel the terror and the pain of death?
 
The real evidence that there is no god was the holocaust. 6 million of his own people praying and suffering, and he wouldn't lift a single finger to do anything about it.

He may have chosen those people because he didn't like them.
 
The real evidence that there is no god was the holocaust. 6 million of his own people praying and suffering, and he wouldn't lift a single finger to do anything about it. Mortal men with everything to lose took fate into their own hands and risked their own lives to end the holocaust. What blows my mind is the religious who are so arrogant to think that god managed to ignore 6 million murders of his own people, but that he's going to intervene in their piddly ass problems.

Indeed, that was a dark time for Israel. How do we know there was no intervention at all?
The holocaust ended, didn't it?

How do we know that there were no positives achieved because of the Holocaust? What prompted nations to give the Jews their own place? How do we know that was not the purpose....or the plan?
That they're meant to be where they are now?


For many Jews, the events of World War II underscored the need for a safe haven for Jews, so that they would never again be without a place to flee from anti-Semitism in the Diaspora. Consequently, the State of Israel was founded in 1948, just three years after World War II ended.
World War II



What about the 6-day war?






The Six Day War of 1967 was a miraculous victory for the State of Israel.






We don't know how God thinks. We don't know His plans....

Anyway, why should we not say God intervenes with individuals in the trivialities of daily life? If people say they experienced God's hand intervening, what kind of logic drives anyone to insist, "No. He doesn't?" :lol:
It kinda makes you wonder if it ain't "sour-grape" mentality behind it! :mrgreen:



I think it's either some people do not understand the concept of what God is, or it's simply arrogance to assume that they know what God ought to have done.
 
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Why not just make them appear in heaven? Why did he need them to feel the terror and the pain of death?

Reading the Old Testament reveals that god is a a real sadist which is why I want nothing to do with him.
 
Indeed, that was a dark time for Israel. How do we know there was no intervention at all? The holocaust ended, didn't it?
How do we know that there were no positives achieved because of the Holocaust? What prompted nations to give the Jews their own place? How do we know that was not the purpose....or the plan?
That they're meant to be where they are now?


For many Jews, the events of World War II underscored the need for a safe haven for Jews, so that they would never again be without a place to flee from anti-Semitism in the Diaspora. Consequently, the State of Israel was founded in 1948, just three years after World War II ended.
World War II

What about the 6-day war?


The Six Day War of 1967 was a miraculous victory for the State of Israel.


We don't know how God thinks. We don't know His plans....

I think it's either some people do not understand the concept of what God is, or it's simply arrogance to assume that they know what God ought to have done.

You're right in that if god exists we don't know his plan. You on the other hand are selfish enough to think that you're special and can influence his plan by begging and starving yourself. The 6 million people who did the same thing (and more) got absolutely nothing.

That's the problem. Every prayer that goes unanswered you people say "It must not've been god's will!", then when one does get 'answered', you say "Behold the power of prayer!".
 
The real evidence that there is no god was the holocaust. 6 million of his own people praying and suffering, and he wouldn't lift a single finger to do anything about it. Mortal men with everything to lose took fate into their own hands and risked their own lives to end the holocaust. What blows my mind is the religious who are so arrogant to think that god managed to ignore 6 million murders of his own people, but that he's going to intervene in their piddly ass problems.




Here's one now. You seriously think that he ignores the prayers of people being tortured and murdered but he answers your prayers because you're special? Maybe the Jews in the concentration camps didn't starve themselves enough to appease him?


Thing is, that's not proof God doesn't exist. According to the old testament, God fairly regularly participated and instigated the massacres of his own people.

So...ignoring the holocaust? No biggy, not for the BIG guy.
 
Prayers are just a way to make you feel better. Truth is, according to da bible, God has a plan, and being that he's perfect, the plan is perfect. If he were to actually listen to our imperfect suggestions for that plan, and follow them, his plan would become imperfect.
 
Watching the shorter video above reminds me of mishaps by Israel's enemies in the Old Testament - due to God's intervention! Remember the OT account of several armies from allied enemies who were ready to annihilate the Jews ended up confused?
 
Prayers are just a way to make you feel better. Truth is, according to da bible, God has a plan, and being that he's perfect, the plan is perfect. If he were to actually listen to our imperfect suggestions for that plan, and follow them, his plan would become imperfect.

If god has a plan then our fates are sealed so why bother praying?
 
Why not just make them appear in heaven? Why did he need them to feel the terror and the pain of death?
That is for G_d to decide.

But if you are unsatisfied with the answer feel free to pay G_D a visit and ask.
 
Why not just make them appear in heaven? Why did he need them to feel the terror and the pain of death?



Maybe God wanted to give the news media and us here on debate politics something to talk about, eh? :roll:

When God wants us to know something, He'll tell it to us.
 
Prayers are just a way to make you feel better. Truth is, according to da bible, God has a plan, and being that he's perfect, the plan is perfect. If he were to actually listen to our imperfect suggestions for that plan, and follow them, his plan would become imperfect.



Too many cooks spoil the soup, eh? :roll:
 
Maybe God wanted to give the news media and us here on debate politics something to talk about, eh? :roll:

When God wants us to know something, He'll tell it to us.

Or gods may be merely inventions of mankind. I wonder when primitive man first came up with the idea of the thunder and volcano gods.
 
You're right in that if god exists we don't know his plan. You on the other hand are selfish enough to think that you're special and can influence his plan by begging and starving yourself. The 6 million people who did the same thing (and more) got absolutely nothing.

That's the problem. Every prayer that goes unanswered you people say "It must not've been god's will!", then when one does get 'answered', you say "Behold the power of prayer!".

That's your opinion because you don't believe! If you attend church, you'll hear several testimonies from others who give thanks to God for prayers answered. I'm here at the forum, and I'm giving my testimonies - as a direct response negating the OP of this topic.

You don't like that. For obvious reasons. Your hostility towards God is obvious. So much so you remind me of Dracula responding to garlic, or to the Cross whenever you see the word, "God." :mrgreen:

But contrary to what you think, I'm not giving it for your benefit (like as if I'll waste any more time)....:roll:
So you can simply ignore me. :)
 
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Why not just make them appear in heaven? Why did he need them to feel the terror and the pain of death?

You know, this brings to mind a dream I had about a year back, that had me pretty upset, and pretty confuzzled. But mostly upset. I was raised in a christian home, in a christian town, in a christian state in the south. I was once a fairly hardcore christian. Things happened, and I decided not to be anymore. I decided that of my two choices...believe in God but accept that he is a saddistic tyrant, or don't believe in God...I'd rather NOT believe in an all powerful tyrant, because that would just make me suicidal.

Fast forward to about a year ago, and I had this dream, I was in school, in FL, with, like, a glass roof, for whatever reason...but that glass roof allowed me to see a HUGE tidal wave coming out way. And there was nothing I could do. And I tell you, this was hands down, the most realistic, frightening dream I've ever had. I could hear the roar of the water, feel the wind, I was sweating, it was all so real. When the shadow of the wave fell over me, just before it crashed, in my dream, I called out to god, pleading. Just...."Oh god, oh god, oh god". Wave crashed, blackness, I woke up in a cold sweat, and angry that, when it really came down to it, I still believed, and that I would still be weak enough in a moment of testing, to give in to that belief.

My point? In their moments of terror, how many of those people who would not have otherwise, cried out to god, and found themselves suddenly believing, either again, or for the first time?
 
That is for G_d to decide.

But if you are unsatisfied with the answer feel free to pay G_D a visit and ask.

If he exists, I have every intention of doing so when I die. If he would be but so gracious as to grant me a short audience.


And if he is not so gracious, what care have I about him one way or the other?
 
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