Atheism has been taken over by Idiocy?[W:82, 506]

X Factor · Feb 28, 2015

Re: Atheism has been taken over by Idiocy?

Dragonfly said:
Talk to them about what????

I'll talk to whoever it is that suppressing his right to proudly declare his atheism and tell them to knock it off.

Dragonfly · Feb 28, 2015

Re: Atheism has been taken over by Idiocy?

X Factor said:
I'll talk to whoever it is that suppressing his right to proudly declare his atheism and tell them to knock it off.

Why do people proudly need to declare anything regarding their faith, or lack thereof????

blackjack50 · Feb 28, 2015

Re: Atheism has been taken over by Idiocy?

William Rea said:
This suggestion was made in another thread...

(my spelling correction)

I'm not sure that I really understand what this 'idiocy' might be but, I suspect that it is the baggage that is being attached to Atheism by people with an agenda. Be sure that Atheism is nothing other than a statement about a lack of belief, it says nothing about science, politics or any other human endeavours.

What I observe of late is atheists starting to speak openly about their lack of belief and challenge 'belief' rather than sit back and be cowed by the entitlement culture of religion that has pervaded our lives for thousands of years. Am I wrong?

Note - I am not particularly interested in any response from theists.

How can lack of belief be taken over by idiocy? Is there a church of atheism? Isn't that like an organized nihilist group?

X Factor · Feb 28, 2015

Re: Atheism has been taken over by Idiocy?

Dragonfly said:
Why do people proudly need to declare anything regarding their faith, or lack thereof????

Why are you asking me? William feels it's important, obviously, and he feels he's being stifled and suppressed/oppressed. I'm saying that I support his right to declare his atheism and I'll say so to those who say he doesn't or shouldn't have that right. I'm not sure who they are, but William knows a lot of them.

tosca1 · Feb 28, 2015

Re: Atheism has been taken over by Idiocy?

William Rea said:
Well, I would counter that by saying that those who are falling over themselves to be moderate about religion and not step on the toes of the entitlement culture are doing just as much damage.

The point is that regarding theism, there has been a shift in liberal democracies towards secularism but, we are a long way away from a moderate detente position in many many countries and not just the extreme ones.

What could be a "moderate detente" position?

History had proven that atheism had been guilty of extreme atrocities. We're talking about modern day atrocities, too.

Mao, Stalin, Pol Pot, Hitler easily comes to mind - they're the popular ones! Propaganda may've said otherwise....but surely, no democracies, or anything "liberal," there.

William Rea

.....those who are falling over themselves to be moderate about religion and not step on the toes of the entitlement culture are doing just as much damage.

That quote would've been the red flag!

I wonder how many among these named atrocious figures in history had used similar sentiment campaigning for their ideologies?

nota bene · Feb 28, 2015

Re: Atheism has been taken over by Idiocy?

Dragonfly said:
Why do people proudly need to declare anything regarding their faith, or lack thereof????

Some are impelled to "share," whether they're folks of faith or secularists, just as some are reticent by nature. And some just like to be gadflies.

X Factor · Feb 28, 2015

Re: Atheism has been taken over by Idiocy?

tosca1 said:
What could be a "moderate detente" position?

History had proven that atheism had been guilty of extreme atrocities. We're talking about modern day atrocities, too. Mao, Stalin, Pol Pot, Hitler easily comes to mind. Propaganda may've said otherwise....but surely, no democracies or anything liberal there.

Really? Could have sworn is was people who did those things. See? It's turds in the punch bowl like this one you just dropped that only accomplish putting people on the defensive. Now, what was actually kind of an interesting discussion will devolve into whether Hitler was a Christian or not. Good work.

William Rea · Feb 28, 2015

Re: Atheism has been taken over by Idiocy?

stonewall50 said:
How can lack of belief be taken over by idiocy? Is there a church of atheism? Isn't that like an organized nihilist group?

It isn't my assertion but, you make a reasonable point.

tosca1 · Feb 28, 2015

Re: Atheism has been taken over by Idiocy?

stonewall50 said:
How can lack of belief be taken over by idiocy? Is there a church of atheism?

Atheist 'mega-churches' look for nonbelievers

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/11/10/atheist-mega-churches/3489967/

Atheist 'Megachurches' Crop Up Around The World

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/11/10/atheist-mega-church_n_4252360.html

With the First Church of Atheism you can become ordained quickly, easily, and at no cost.

http://firstchurchofatheism.com/

\Wired 14.11: The Church of the Non-Believers

William Rea · Feb 28, 2015

Re: Atheism has been taken over by Idiocy?

X Factor said:
Why are you asking me? William feels it's important, obviously, and he feels he's being stifled and suppressed/oppressed. I'm saying that I support his right to declare his atheism and I'll say so to those who say he doesn't or shouldn't have that right. I'm not sure who they are, but William knows a lot of them.

The fact that you have to strawman, personalise and bait my position speaks for itself really but, that's your choice, not mine.

tosca1 · Feb 28, 2015

Re: Atheism has been taken over by Idiocy?

X Factor said:
Really? Could have sworn is was people who did those things. See? It's turds in the punch bowl like this one you just dropped that only accomplish putting people on the defensive. Now, what was actually kind of an interesting discussion will devolve into whether Hitler was a Christian or not. Good work.

Well, yes it's people who did those things. What starts a movement? Ideology!

Rea suggests people shouldn't treat religion with tolerance - he's echoing the propaganda of the New Atheist!

Why shouldn't I say something that's relevant to his quote? Just because someone could pick up on it and try to take the discussion off-course?

And if someone does tries to derail this thread as you suggested - well, I'll just tell them to start their own thread if they want to pursue it. No worries.

Let's not get ourselves stifled for fear that someone will use a phrase to derail the topic.

tosca1 · Feb 28, 2015

Re: Atheism has been taken over by Idiocy?

1750Texan said:
Which is meaningless to my question.

"Explanatory power" is in no way proof of anything. You have the explanatory power to detect the universe...not that the universe was created by GOD. You have to use your Explanatory powers to accept that the Universe exists because you have not seen it for yourself. ergo you accept the Universe exists and you have formulated the theory that God was the power that created it.

I accept no theory of the creation of the Universe as fact...You accept the theory that GOD created the Universe. Big difference.

It is not meaningless. You wanted to treat God's existence as a theory. And I'm presenting it to you as such.

Where's the proof that the theory of chance is true? Yet I've got explanatory power behind the "theory" of God - based on OBSERVATION - to support my theory.

The fact that the universe has a beginning, and is expanding, for one. The very fact that life exists, is another one.

Are you saying there's no possiblity that God might exist?

Paschendale · Feb 28, 2015

Re: Atheism has been taken over by Idiocy?

See, the "idiots" in the OP are just the people who care about the corrosive effect that religion has on our society and speak out about it. We are the ones who have a real problem with lying to kids about science and history in schools, with stripping women of their rights, with the religious motivations for our wars in the Middle East, with stealing billions of dollars of tax money, with sheltering men who rape children, with stifling new technology, with helping spread HIV and AIDS by lying to children about sex and contraceptives.

But no, religious people (and their apologists) keep whining about how the mean atheists fake fun of them and call them stupid, while those same religious people try to take over the government and force their beliefs on everyone else. We won't let you do that. The "idiocy" of atheism is people who care about society and don't want to see people suffer because of stupid fairy tale nonsense.

tosca1 · Feb 28, 2015

Re: Atheism has been taken over by Idiocy?

1750Texan said:
Which is meaningless to my question.

"Explanatory power" is in no way proof of anything. You have the explanatory power to detect the universe...not that the universe was created by GOD. You have to use your Explanatory powers to accept that the Universe exists because you have not seen it for yourself. ergo you accept the Universe exists and you have formulated the theory that God was the power that created it.

I accept no theory of the creation of the Universe as fact...You accept the theory that GOD created the Universe. Big difference.

Speaking of expanding universe.....thanks for reminding me in a way.

Do you know that there are at least 10 verses in the Bible that describes that?

William Rea · Feb 28, 2015

Re: Atheism has been taken over by Idiocy?

Paschendale said:
See, the "idiots" in the OP are just the people who care about the corrosive effect that religion has on our society and speak out about it. We are the ones who have a real problem with lying to kids about science and history in schools, with stripping women of their rights, with the religious motivations for our wars in the Middle East, with stealing billions of dollars of tax money, with sheltering men who rape children, with stifling new technology, with helping spread HIV and AIDS by lying to children about sex and contraceptives.

But no, religious people (and their apologists) keep whining about how the mean atheists fake fun of them and call them stupid, while those same religious people try to take over the government and force their beliefs on everyone else. We won't let you do that. The "idiocy" of atheism is people who care about society and don't want to see people suffer because of stupid fairy tale nonsense.

And, as is being ably demonstrated in this thread, they have become so used to the debate being skewed towards their entitlement, even in modern culture, that they have no concept of what a level playing field even looks like. Where being even remotely controversial by asking for religion to stop being given a free pass on issues is 'Idiocy' but hey, haters hate, mockers mock and the entitled don't give up entitlement without a fight.

So I ask again, someone tell me what this 'idiocy' is?

1750Texan · Feb 28, 2015

Re: Atheism has been taken over by Idiocy?

tosca1 said:
It is not meaningless. You wanted to treat God's existence as a theory. And I'm presenting it to you as such.

All I needed you to do is confirm that God is a Theory. No proof is necessary because none can be given.

Manc Skipper · Feb 28, 2015

Re: Atheism has been taken over by Idiocy?

tosca1 said:
My evidence as a believer has more explanatory power than that of an atheist.

The universe as an example. It either exist by chance, or by design.
The natural laws and constants - empirical evidence - all indicate design more than chance.

Design is an assumption of the beholder. If I were designed, then I wouldn't be able to bite my own cheek while eating.

zyzygy · Feb 28, 2015

Re: Atheism has been taken over by Idiocy?

tosca1 said:
Speaking of expanding universe.....thanks for reminding me in a way.

Do you know that there are at least 10 verses in the Bible that describes that?

Only if one has a very vivid imagination.

blackjack50 · Feb 28, 2015

Re: Atheism has been taken over by Idiocy?

William Rea said:
It isn't my assertion but, you make a reasonable point.

Well yea. I'm a Christian and a member of an organized church. But atheists aren't lol. right? I mean there are idiot atheists, just like idiots in every other group of humans lol.

blackjack50 · Feb 28, 2015

Re: Atheism has been taken over by Idiocy?

tosca1 said:
Atheist 'mega-churches' look for nonbelievers

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/11/10/atheist-mega-churches/3489967/

Atheist 'Megachurches' Crop Up Around The World

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/11/10/atheist-mega-church_n_4252360.html

With the First Church of Atheism you can become ordained quickly, easily, and at no cost.

http://firstchurchofatheism.com/

\Wired 14.11: The Church of the Non-Believers

Why??? They make fun of us believers for being members in a group organized around a concept that they believe doesn't exist. They are organized around the lack of belief...

Paschendale · Feb 28, 2015

Re: Atheism has been taken over by Idiocy?

stonewall50 said:
Why??? They make fun of us believers for being members in a group organized around a concept that they believe doesn't exist. They are organized around the lack of belief...

No, we're organized around stopping believers from exercising control over society in ways that are detrimental to prosperity, liberty, and truth. We don't care at all about beliefs outside of the actions they inspire.

countryboy · Feb 28, 2015

Re: Atheism has been taken over by Idiocy?

William Rea said:
I'm not sure that I really understand what this 'idiocy' might be....

Of course you don't, that's kinda the point.

What I observe of late is atheists starting to speak openly about their lack of belief and challenge 'belief' rather than sit back and be cowed by the entitlement culture of religion that has pervaded our lives for thousands of years. Am I wrong?

Of course you're wrong.

Note - I am not particularly interested in any response from theists

Of course not. You don't think anyone thought you were interested in a civil debate, do you? :roll:

countryboy · Feb 28, 2015

Re: Atheism has been taken over by Idiocy?

joG said:
Well, wearing religious symbols can cause offense, anger or even aggression in others. This was brought to mind the other day, when the Jewish National Council of Germany warned against wearing the Kipa in problematic areas of towns.

A religious symbol will never cause any of those things. Frankly, I am astonished at your level of ignorance. Wow.....

joG · Feb 28, 2015

Re: Atheism has been taken over by Idiocy?

countryboy said:
A religious symbol will never cause any of those things. Frankly, I am astonished at your level of ignorance. Wow.....

Maybe trigger would have been a better word than cause.

countryboy · Feb 28, 2015

Re: Atheism has been taken over by Idiocy?

joG said:
Maybe trigger would have been a better word than cause.

Nope.

Atheism has been taken over by Idiocy?[W:82, 506]

X Factor

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Dragonfly

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X Factor

Anti-Socialist

tosca1

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X Factor

Anti-Socialist

William Rea

tosca1

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tosca1

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Paschendale

Uncanny

tosca1

William Rea

1750Texan

Manc Skipper

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zyzygy

blackjack50

blackjack50

Paschendale

Uncanny

countryboy

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countryboy