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LOL "Big Bang"[W:19,438]

Re: LOL "Big Bang"

Look at a technical definition of the universe and you'll get an answer to your question.



You're affirming a proposition and therefore the burden of proof lies on your shoulders to make a case for said proposition. If God cannot be proven to exist or not exist, then the proposition is nonsensical by definition.

Au Contraire. Infinity has no boundaries, so it is impossible to prove God doesn't exist. I know, difficult to think that deep. I won't hold it against you.
 
Re: LOL "Big Bang"

According to the theory, the only space that exists is the space in the universe. There was no space before the universe, space was created when the matter of the universe expanded outward. The universe expands into nothing, the universe is enlarging and thereby expanding the space within it. This is the picture we get from deep space astronomy. We can look out in all directions and see remnants of the older, much smaller, universe.

There is no proof. There is only the fact that the theory fits the available data pretty well. As I have posted there are other theories that might explain the data.

You understand this kind of thinking makes my head explode.

So, how big is nothing, and what is giving way to allow space to go there?

We aren't built to understand.....
 
Re: LOL "Big Bang"

Are we really quoting Kent Hovind as a way to disprove the Big Bang Theory? :roll:
 
Re: LOL "Big Bang"

Yes, as I have read. Into what?

It's a puzzle, isn't it? We don't know and perhaps we never will know but that does not mean that goddidit.
 
Re: LOL "Big Bang"

LOL you mad? As I said, prove to me that the universe as a whole is "13.8 billion years old." I mean wow, listen to yourself. Is that even a number in terms of age or time? Ridiculous.

Because we can see objects that are 13.8 billion light-years away and no further. That is how long light has had to travel. That light is 13.8 billion years old. It is possible that the universe is older than that, but it cannot be younger.

In it's most simple of arguments, if you believe the universe is expanding, as scientists are learning, what is it expanding into? And if you think that space beyond is infinite, as scientists suggest, then infinity reveals that God could exist, or couldn't exist. Since it can't be proved God can't exist, your question has been answered.

So step up and provide the proof asked. Or dodge the question again.

There is no evidence that the universe is expanding into anything.

You can't really apply what you would consider common logic on our macro human scale to either the subatomic universe or to the cosmic one. They do not operate the same way we do on this scale. The notion that there must be things outside the universe makes sense on our scale, but not on a cosmic one. Things only necessarily exist within our universe. The same is true of time. "Outside" and "before" aren't concepts that apply outside of this physical universe.

Of course, the real answer to this thread is that the OP isn't interested in evidence. That's why it's in the philosophy forum and not the science forum.
 
Re: LOL "Big Bang"

Because we can see objects that are 13.8 billion light-years away and no further. That is how long light has had to travel. That light is 13.8 billion years old. It is possible that the universe is older than that, but it cannot be younger.

So what equipment or techniques are employed to see 13.8 billion light-years away and no further?
 
Re: LOL "Big Bang"

Prove that it isn't.

Here, I'll help you.....

jesus-dinosaur8.jpg



:lamo









Explanation[edit]

The Lambda-CDM concordance model describes the evolution of the universe from a very uniform, hot, dense primordial state to its present state over a span of about 13.8 billion years[3] of cosmological time. This model is well understood theoretically and strongly supported by recent high-precision astronomical observations such as WMAP. In contrast, theories of the origin of the primordial state remain very speculative. If one extrapolates the Lambda-CDM model backward from the earliest well-understood state, it quickly (within a small fraction of a second) reaches a singularity called the "Big Bang singularity". This singularity is not understood as having a physical significance in the usual sense, but it is convenient to quote times measured "since the Big Bang" even though they do not correspond to a physically measurable time. For example, "10−6 seconds after the Big Bang" is a well-defined era in the universe's evolution. If one referred to the same era as "13.8 billion years minus 10−6 seconds ago," the precision of the meaning would be lost because the minuscule latter time interval is swamped by uncertainty in the former.

Though the universe might in theory have a longer history, the International Astronomical Union[4] presently use "age of the universe" to mean the duration of the Lambda-CDM expansion, or equivalently the elapsed time since the Big Bang in the current observable universe.


220px-Ilc_9yr_moll4096.png



Age of the universe - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

That's not evidence, is it? Just another theory on top of another wild theory.

Where is the concrete evidence that this universe is exactly 13.8 billion years old? I doubt this Earth's cadre of scientists can measure or analyze every planet or particle in the universe. That would require close contact, which would be suicide.

So back to my original question. And I don't wanna see another ad hominem or another theory about how old the stars are, either. Since evolutionists/atheists make such a bold claim and want to mock God and falsely call him a wizard, then back it up with irrefutable evidence.
 
Re: LOL "Big Bang"

That's not evidence, is it? Just another theory on top of another wild theory.

It's a theory, yes. But you know what else are theories? Gravity, and evolution and those are irrefutably true.

Where is the concrete evidence that this universe is exactly 13.8 billion years old? I doubt this Earth's cadre of scientists can measure or analyze every planet or particle in the universe. That would require close contact, which would be suicide.

We don't know a lot of things as a matter of fact. However with what we do understand and with what we can test one can theorize the universe is 13.8 billion years old. Like Paschendale said, it could very well be older. We don't know, but until then we can use the knowledge we have as a base to further learn about the world.

So back to my original question. And I don't wanna see another ad hominem or another theory about how old the stars are, either. Since evolutionists/atheists make such a bold claim and want to mock God and falsely call him a wizard, then back it up with irrefutable evidence.

I'm an atheist and I don't mock god, I simply do not believe he even exists. That's up to you to prove to the world with the same irrefutable evidence you're demanding from everyone else.
 
Re: LOL "Big Bang"

In it's most simple of arguments, if you believe the universe is expanding, as scientists are learning, what is it expanding into? And if you think that space beyond is infinite, as scientists suggest, then infinity reveals that God could exist, or couldn't exist. Since it can't be proved God can't exist, your question has been answered.

So step up and provide the proof asked. Or dodge the question again

Who said infinity had to be linear?

icon-1.jpg


Considering how much conservatives like circular reasoning, I'm surprised you wouldn't know that. lol

Anyway, some theories suggest the universe could be expanding like the outer skin of a balloon. What happens when a balloon expands too much? Bang? Other theories suggest the expansion will eventually end and the universe will contract or collapse in on itself. There's no shortage of theories but most scientist still adhere to Einstein's General Theory and black holes providing an answer.

However, science doesn't claim to know what the big bang is, what caused it or what came before it. They can only observe and measure the residual evidence it left behind after the point of singularity and that's what they're basing the age of the universe on. But 13.7 billion years doesn't even register on the scale of infinity, so what exactly does that have to do with the OP's question or is it just another one of your strawman arguments?
 
Re: LOL "Big Bang"

That's not evidence, is it? Just another theory on top of another wild theory.

Where is the concrete evidence that this universe is exactly 13.8 billion years old? I doubt this Earth's cadre of scientists can measure or analyze every planet or particle in the universe. That would require close contact, which would be suicide.

So back to my original question. And I don't wanna see another ad hominem or another theory about how old the stars are, either. Since evolutionists/atheists make such a bold claim and want to mock God and falsely call him a wizard, then back it up with irrefutable evidence.

Here's the irrefutable evidence....


518812acab136ddf18e36e6c288eff50.png


General relativity - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



Refute that....because like, you're smarter than Albert Einstein, right?
 
Re: LOL "Big Bang"

A more recent theory based in part on quantum physics postulates that there was no singularity, that the universe expanded according to quantum trajectories, meaning that it has always been kept at a finite size and therefore might be infinite in duration.

So, instead of a big bang it's more like a big boing boing boing ....

One interesting aspect of this theory is that it doesn't require dark matter or energy. Instead it postulates that gravitons form Bose-Einstein condensates that serve the same role.

With this model the difficult aspects of the Big Bang, such as the singularity, hyperexpansion, and dark matter and energy, are avoided. [1411.0753] Dark matter and dark energy from Bose-Einstein condensate

No Big Bang? Quantum equation predicts universe has no beginning

Not quite.. that particular theory, which has not yet been tested btw, even though it does make predictions that can be tested, says there is not big crunch either.
 
Re: LOL "Big Bang"

Here's the irrefutable evidence....


518812acab136ddf18e36e6c288eff50.png


General relativity - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



Refute that....because like, you're smarter than Albert Einstein, right?

Considering he thinks the earth is 6,000 years old I highly doubt he even knows what general relativity is.

Telescopes. Seriously, how do you not know this?
Telescopes? Seriously? lolz

This is why I didn't waste time on him trying to actually explain anything. He doesn't even understand that there are planets, stars and galaxies billions and billions of light-years away. Christians have the silly habit of believing they're the center of the universe and everything else is just nonsensical background put there by god so we have something pretty to look at at night.
 
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Re: LOL "Big Bang"

As a Christian, I like the big bang. I think it helps support the creation narrative. I would be sad to see it go away. Nevertheless, the big bang is not without any challengers: No Big Bang? Quantum equation predicts universe has no beginning

I think some of those who responded in this thread in such a way that they put all of their chips on this one theory might find the article interesting. Putting all of your chips on a scientific theory that we know has problems is probably not a great idea. The big bang theory may, in fact, be wrong. I'm rooting for it not being wrong...but I still find it hard to imagine why anyone would put all their eggs on that basket.
 
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Re: LOL "Big Bang"

That's not evidence, is it? Just another theory on top of another wild theory.

Where is the concrete evidence that this universe is exactly 13.8 billion years old? I doubt this Earth's cadre of scientists can measure or analyze every planet or particle in the universe. That would require close contact, which would be suicide.

So back to my original question. And I don't wanna see another ad hominem or another theory about how old the stars are, either. Since evolutionists/atheists make such a bold claim and want to mock God and falsely call him a wizard, then back it up with irrefutable evidence.
Just because you don't personally understand something does not mean it is invalid. However, I'll try and simplify things for you. Background: physicist turned science teacher - in fact, I will be teaching this exact topic to my year 10's (14/15 years old) in a few weeks time.

First of all, you need to understand what the 'big bang' refers to. The big bang theory does not, strictly speaking, refer to the idea of something coming from nothing ('creation ex nilho'). All the big bang really refers to is the concept that, 13.8 billion years ago, everything that makes up the universe today was all much, much closer together (ie could be contained within a beach ball). We're not sure what happened before that point, because physics as we understand it kind of breaks - there are lots of competing hypothesisesesesseseses, but no evidence as yet.

Keeping it simple; there are two seriously strong pieces of evidence for the big bang theory, and one supporting evidence which fits nicely into the explanation:

1) The CMBR (cosmic microwave background radiation - you can think of it as a thermogram if the universe with all the stars taken out) shows that all of the universe was in one place at one time (by 'one place', I mean 'close enough to be all influenced at once by the same thing'). This is because if the universe was not all in one place at one time, there is no reason for the whole universe giving off (approximately) the same level of background radiation, which it does.

By analogy, compare this example with a large cloud forming in the atmosphere. The cloud forming in the atmosphere might have significant temperature variations in it from one part to the other, due to difference in the air temperature that it is forming in. On the other hand, the cloud formed when boiling water is ejected into freezing air (as with the video example) will all be roughly the same temperature because it all started in the same place. When we look at the background radiation of the universe, we find that it is all roughly the same - which is what our "boiling water in a mug" model predicts, not our "clouds forming in the atmosphere" model.

2) Red Shift of distant galaxies - the simple version is that 'red shift' has allowed us to discover that distant galaxies are moving away from us - and the further away from us they are, the faster away from us they are moving. This indicates that the universe is expanding away from a single origin point. That then means that if you go back in time, the universe shrinks - and if you go far enough back, the universe would all be in one place, which is what the CMBR also implies (see above). The amount of time you have to go back by is 13.8 billion years, which we can work out with a simple time = distance/speed calculation. The good thing about the red shift calculations is that if you apply it to any galaxy you get the same result (within experimental tolerance), which means that this applies consistently to every single galaxy out there.

3) This also fits in with what we can see in the universe. If we can see things that are more than 13.8 billion light-years away, the light must have spent more than 13.8 billion light years to get to us and so the big bang theory must have a problem with it. However, the furthest things we can see are (with certainty) just over 13 billion light-years away, and (at our best guess) 13.4 billion light-years away. While this doesn't confirm directly the 13.8 billion figure, it does fit in with it - and it certainly denies the '6000 year' concept of YEC.

Simples.
 
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Re: LOL "Big Bang"

It's a puzzle, isn't it? We don't know and perhaps we never will know but that does not mean that goddidit.

Correct, but "perhaps we will never know" means we can't say goddidn'tdoit.
 
Re: LOL "Big Bang"

Because we can see objects that are 13.8 billion light-years away and no further. That is how long light has had to travel. That light is 13.8 billion years old. It is possible that the universe is older than that, but it cannot be younger.



There is no evidence that the universe is expanding into anything.

You can't really apply what you would consider common logic on our macro human scale to either the subatomic universe or to the cosmic one. They do not operate the same way we do on this scale. The notion that there must be things outside the universe makes sense on our scale, but not on a cosmic one. Things only necessarily exist within our universe. The same is true of time. "Outside" and "before" aren't concepts that apply outside of this physical universe.

Of course, the real answer to this thread is that the OP isn't interested in evidence. That's why it's in the philosophy forum and not the science forum.

The evidence the universe is expanding has been quite strong. In fact, I believe recent studies suggest it's doing so at a faster rate than predicted. If that is the case, what is it expanding into? Again, if that what is infinite, as science theorizes, the presence of God can't be ruled out. Under these circumstances, the evidence that God doesn't exist can only be considered within the confines of our scale, not a cosmic one.
 
Re: LOL "Big Bang"

Who said infinity had to be linear?

icon-1.jpg


Considering how much conservatives like circular reasoning, I'm surprised you wouldn't know that. lol

Anyway, some theories suggest the universe could be expanding like the outer skin of a balloon. What happens when a balloon expands too much? Bang? Other theories suggest the expansion will eventually end and the universe will contract or collapse in on itself. There's no shortage of theories but most scientist still adhere to Einstein's General Theory and black holes providing an answer.

However, science doesn't claim to know what the big bang is, what caused it or what came before it. They can only observe and measure the residual evidence it left behind after the point of singularity and that's what they're basing the age of the universe on. But 13.7 billion years doesn't even register on the scale of infinity, so what exactly does that have to do with the OP's question or is it just another one of your strawman arguments?

Another one of my strawman arguments? Geeze, aren't we special. I didn't mean to exceed your intellectual capacity, so you don't need to revert to form and look childish.

13.7 billion years is nothing in the context of infinity. Everything is possible, since infinity does not constrain anything. Therefore, as I posited, if one believes in infinite space, the presence of God can't be ruled out. Question answered.
 
re: LOL "Big Bang"[W:19,438]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D5uWkHALd0Q

While I do recommend the whole video to watch - as well as the whole video series - fast-forward to 1:16:47 that easily debunks the "Big Bang Theory."

Clinging to the notion that something came from nothing, like two atoms forming together and then BOOM, out of nowhere the universe "expanded."


"4.6 Billion years ago." LOL! Show me the evidence!

Here is a video which, if you have the intellectual courage to watch it, will supply very strong evidence to demonstrate the way the universe has expended over the last 12.5 billion years.

Hubble's Extreme Deep Field Sees Farther Back In Time | Video

It's very good. Although I have seen better on this subject.

For the bit before 12.5 billion years you will need to understand physics a lot more.
 
Re: LOL "Big Bang"

The evidence the universe is expanding has been quite strong. In fact, I believe recent studies suggest it's doing so at a faster rate than predicted. If that is the case, what is it expanding into? Again, if that what is infinite, as science theorizes, the presence of God can't be ruled out. Under these circumstances, the evidence that God doesn't exist can only be considered within the confines of our scale, not a cosmic one.

If you are playing in the "World of Warcraft" role playing game and the operators of it expand the game area, what has it expanded into?

The question does not make sense. The internal geometry of the game universe does not give it external geometry.

The universe is expanding in that 2 fixed points in space (you can't have a fixed point in space time..... it's not possible to "attach" to space...) are becoming further apart all the time. Mind bending stuff high level physics.
 
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