The Burden of Proof II: You Are In the Matrix

(With a tip of the hat to Descartes and Hilary Putnam)

You think you're in the real world, but you're not. What you think are sensory perceptions are, in fact, electrical impulses sent to your brain by a massive computer.

You have no access to any true sensory information about the world. Everything you have ever heard, tasted, smelled, seen, read and felt is a simulation.

Since the computer is plugged right into your brain, it can also trigger emotions, sensations, feelings, even thoughts. Everything you know about the world is a lie.

You might not even have an actual brain. You may be a sentient computer program operating within the computer environment.

There is absolutely no way to determine the truth or falsity of this claim. Any evidence you might claim to refute it, including mystical or ecstatic feelings, can be generated by the computer. Even if you think you've broken out of your nutrition pod and disconnected yourself from the computer, that entire event could be simulated by the computer. You have no access to any information that can contradict the claim.

It may be difficult to imagine from our technical perspective, but it's easy to conceive, and proposing it does not produce any inconsistencies.

"It's silly!" is not proof. It's an opinion. It's what the machines want you to think.

Thus, I state that:
• You are in The Matrix.
• The burden of proof is not on me to prove that you're in The Matrix. It's on anyone who denies that they are in The Matrix.

Have at it, Copper-Tops.

The burden of proof is not on me to prove that you're in The Matrix. It's on anyone who denies that they are in The Matrix.

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no computer could ever come up with anything this painfully awful :

I'll be back after a glass or two of Woodford Reserve... neat.

In the mean time explain to us why we have to disprove what you cannot prove.

Visbek said:

(With a tip of the hat to Descartes and Hilary Putnam)

You think you're in the real world, but you're not. What you think are sensory perceptions are, in fact, electrical impulses sent to your brain by a massive computer.

You have no access to any true sensory information about the world. Everything you have ever heard, tasted, smelled, seen, read and felt is a simulation.

Since the computer is plugged right into your brain, it can also trigger emotions, sensations, feelings, even thoughts. Everything you know about the world is a lie.

You might not even have an actual brain. You may be a sentient computer program operating within the computer environment.

There is absolutely no way to determine the truth or falsity of this claim. Any evidence you might claim to refute it, including mystical or ecstatic feelings, can be generated by the computer. Even if you think you've broken out of your nutrition pod and disconnected yourself from the computer, that entire event could be simulated by the computer. You have no access to any information that can contradict the claim.

It may be difficult to imagine from our technical perspective, but it's easy to conceive, and proposing it does not produce any inconsistencies.

"It's silly!" is not proof. It's an opinion. It's what the machines want you to think.

Thus, I state that:
• You are in The Matrix.
• The burden of proof is not on me to prove that you're in The Matrix. It's on anyone who denies that they are in The Matrix.

Have at it, Copper-Tops.

Click to expand...

https://www.google.com/search?q=mental+hospital&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8

Might as well do it properly. The philosophical heritage really isn't the matrix but the matrix is just the brain in a vat or solipsism.

It seems to me though a rather pointless debate as we can only ever act and rationally believe that this world is real.

Hell with reality, give me that damn blue pill.

Helix said:

no computer could ever come up with anything this painfully awful

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I think you underestimate the creativity of the machines. Or their programmers.

Paleocon said:

https://www.google.com/search?q=mental+hospital&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8

Click to expand...

It's a thought experiment and an illustration of the problems of unfalsifiable beliefs. Thanks for playing.

Visbek said:

(With a tip of the hat to Descartes and Hilary Putnam)

You think you're in the real world, but you're not. What you think are sensory perceptions are, in fact, electrical impulses sent to your brain by a massive computer.

You have no access to any true sensory information about the world. Everything you have ever heard, tasted, smelled, seen, read and felt is a simulation.

Since the computer is plugged right into your brain, it can also trigger emotions, sensations, feelings, even thoughts. Everything you know about the world is a lie.

You might not even have an actual brain. You may be a sentient computer program operating within the computer environment.

There is absolutely no way to determine the truth or falsity of this claim. Any evidence you might claim to refute it, including mystical or ecstatic feelings, can be generated by the computer. Even if you think you've broken out of your nutrition pod and disconnected yourself from the computer, that entire event could be simulated by the computer. You have no access to any information that can contradict the claim.

It may be difficult to imagine from our technical perspective, but it's easy to conceive, and proposing it does not produce any inconsistencies.

"It's silly!" is not proof. It's an opinion. It's what the machines want you to think.

Thus, I state that:
• You are in The Matrix.
• The burden of proof is not on me to prove that you're in The Matrix. It's on anyone who denies that they are in The Matrix.

Have at it, Copper-Tops.

Click to expand...

The burden of proof is equally on you, and on anyone who claims with equal certainty that they are not.

You are making a positive claim. Your burden of proof.

I don't know, and don't particularly care. I tend more towards the practical side of philosophy (which is why I'm an atheist), and as such, unless I have a compelling reason to accept something as true, I simply don't. That's not the same as denial; I just have no reason to accept your positive claim.

And it's not especially important to me; no matter from whence my perception comes, that changes nothing about the value of my experience to me.

So... your ball. :shrug:

It never works that way. The burden of proof is always on the positive claimant. You claim people are in the Matrix, it is your job to prove it.

Visbek said:

(With a tip of the hat to Descartes and Hilary Putnam)

You think you're in the real world, but you're not. What you think are sensory perceptions are, in fact, electrical impulses sent to your brain by a massive computer.

You have no access to any true sensory information about the world. Everything you have ever heard, tasted, smelled, seen, read and felt is a simulation.

Since the computer is plugged right into your brain, it can also trigger emotions, sensations, feelings, even thoughts. Everything you know about the world is a lie.

You might not even have an actual brain. You may be a sentient computer program operating within the computer environment.

There is absolutely no way to determine the truth or falsity of this claim. Any evidence you might claim to refute it, including mystical or ecstatic feelings, can be generated by the computer. Even if you think you've broken out of your nutrition pod and disconnected yourself from the computer, that entire event could be simulated by the computer. You have no access to any information that can contradict the claim.

It may be difficult to imagine from our technical perspective, but it's easy to conceive, and proposing it does not produce any inconsistencies.

"It's silly!" is not proof. It's an opinion. It's what the machines want you to think.

Thus, I state that:
• You are in The Matrix.
• The burden of proof is not on me to prove that you're in The Matrix. It's on anyone who denies that they are in The Matrix.

Have at it, Copper-Tops.

Click to expand...

Why would anyone argue with you? You are right! I'm think I'm overdo for my recharge, too.