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A Prostitue, Mary M Founded Christianity?

Logicman said:
Love speaks the truth, and without Christ as your Savior, the Bible says you're a crispy critter (John 3:36, etc.).
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Love and god have just about nothing in common.
 
Unitedwestand13 said:
I just find it funny that there are more descriptions about the place where the sinful reside, while there are very little descriptions of what heaven is like
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I don't think the Lord wants the Hell-bound to be under any misconception on what they're going to have to live with.
 
Logicman said:
I don't think the Lord wants the Hell-bound to be under any misconception on what they're going to have to live with.
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And at the same time he wants the heaven-bound to be kind of in the dark on what Heaven is like? Makes sense. Sure...
 
Logicman said:
What Christ (God) did at Calvary utterly destroys that notion.
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So what one act of love somehow makes up for Gods long list of evil? Tell me more.

A totalitarian dictator is not a being of love, but a being of control.
 
Logicman said:
What Christ (God) did at Calvary utterly destroys that notion.
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Alleged to have done, according to a story in an old book. It's not the same as "done".
 
Henrin said:
And at the same time he wants the heaven-bound to be kind of in the dark on what Heaven is like? Makes sense. Sure...
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You don't see many Christians rushing to get there. They all seem to want to postpone their departure for as long as possible.
 
Unitedwestand13 said:
I just find it funny that there are more descriptions about the place where the sinful reside, while there are very little descriptions of what heaven is like
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God should employ a travel agent.
 
Henrin said:
And at the same time he wants the heaven-bound to be kind of in the dark on what Heaven is like? Makes sense. Sure...
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Choose Hell then. You're eternal funeral.
 
Unitedwestand13 said:
It just seems that god is doing a poor job explaining what exactly goes on in heaven.
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Have you ever done a thorough study of what the Bible says about heaven? I don't think any of you detractors have cracked a Bible in years, or ever.
 
Henrin said:
So what one act of love somehow makes up for Gods long list of evil? Tell me more.

A totalitarian dictator is not a being of love, but a being of control.
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Hey - next time you're down and out try finding a BITTER ATHEIST'S HOMELESS SHELTER.
 
zyzygy said:
You don't see many Christians rushing to get there. They all seem to want to postpone their departure for as long as possible.
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I don't care either way. But the earlier we don't have to deal with the spiritually-challenged, stiff-necked crowd, the better.
 
There is no heaven and hell . No God. No Pixies or faeries. You are free to prove elsewise to me any time.

Thye old testament is our (Im Jewish) book anyway. there is no Hell there.
 
ataturk said:
There is no heaven and hell . No God. No Pixies or faeries. You are free to prove elsewise to me any time.

Thye old testament is our (Im Jewish) book anyway. there is no Hell there.
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You say you're Jewish and 'Old Testament' and there's no God? What Old Testament are you reading? It's not the one I've read.

As for Hell in the OT, consider Daniel 12:2 - "Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt."

What's the name of that place in the afterlife where people awake to "shame and everlasting contempt"?
 
Logicman said:
You say you're Jewish and 'Old Testament' and there's no God? What Old Testament are you reading? It's not the one I've read.

As for Hell in the OT, consider Daniel 12:2 - "Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt."

What's the name of that place in the afterlife where people awake to "shame and everlasting contempt"?
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The Grave... and it is not the afterlife, but the end of life.

Also, Daniel is part of the writings, one of the later writings from about 160 bce to 164 bce. It was not written by Daniel, but it was written about Daniel to encourage the Jews that were being oppressed under Antioch iv.
 
RAMOSS said:
The Grave... and it is not the afterlife, but the end of life.
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Absolute nonsense. People don't AWAKE from the grave.

RAMOSS said:
Also, Daniel is part of the writings, one of the later writings from about 160 bce to 164 bce.
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That's liberal hogwash designed to mask the supernatural, prophetic nature of Daniel.


Was the Book of Daniel originally in the Prophetic Section of the Tanakh?

“The Book of Daniel would not be out of place in the prophetic section, Joshua, Judges and Kinds are included in the Prophets, and the translators of the Septuagint version of the Jewish Scriptures placed Daniel there also.” Joseph D. Wilson, “Did Daniel Write Daniel,” page 84.

“…the present position of the Book (of Daniel) in the Hebrew Canon is not its original position. We have it on the authority of the Jewish historian Josephus that at the close of the first century A.D. the Canon of the Old Testament books was differently arranged from that which is presently accepted among the Jews; and it is also evident from the writings of the Early Fathers that a change must have been made in the arrangement of the Jewish Canon between the middle of the third and the end of the fourth century A.D.” - Charles Boutflower, “In and Around the Book of Daniel,” pages 276-277.

Josephus in Contra Apionem 1:8 writes, “We have but twenty-two (books) containing the history of all time, books that are justly believed in; and of these, five are the books of Moses, which comprise the laws and earliest traditions from the creation of mankind down to his death. From the death of Moses to the reign of Artaxerxes, King of Persia, successor of Xerxes, the prophets who succeeded Moses wrote the history of the events that occurred in their own time, in thirteen books. The remaining four documents comprise hymns to God and the practical precepts to men.”

Daniel was included in those 13 books.

RAMOSS said:
It was not written by Daniel, but it was written about Daniel to encourage the Jews that were being oppressed under Antioch iv.
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<chuckle>

What the liberal critics have to believe if Daniel didn’t write the Book of Daniel

“The (critics of Daniel) cannot believe in miracles and predictive prophecy which involve nothing but a simple faith in a wise and mighty and merciful God intervening in behalf of his people for his own glory and their salvation; BUT THEY CAN BELIEVE that a lot of obstreperous and cantankerous Jews who through all their history from Jacob and Esau down to the present time have disagreed and quarreled about almost everything, or nothing, could have accepted, unanimously and without a murmur, in an age when they were enlightened by the brilliant light of Plato’s philosophy, and Aristotle’s logic, and the criticism of the schools of Alexandria, a forged and fictitious document, untrue to the well remembered facts of their own experience and to the easily ascertained facts concerning their own past history and the history of the Babylonians, Medes, Persians, and Greeks of whom the author (of the book of Daniel) writes." R.D. Wilson, Studies in the Book of Daniel, pages 268, 269

“The Sanhedrin of the second century B.C. was composed of men of the type of John Hyrcanus; men famed for their piety and learning; men who were heirs of all the proud traditions of the Jewish faith, and themselves the sons of successors of the heroes of the noble Maccabean revolt. And yet we are asked to believe (by the critics of Daniel) that these men, with their extremely strict views of inspiration and their intense reverence of for their sacred writings….used their authority to smuggle into the Jewish Canon a book which, ex hypothesi, was a forgery, a literary fraud, and a religious novel of recent date.” R. Anderson, Daniel in the Critics Den, pages 104-105
 
Logicman said:
Absolute nonsense. People don't AWAKE from the grave.



That's liberal hogwash designed to mask the supernatural, prophetic nature of Daniel.


Was the Book of Daniel originally in the Prophetic Section of the Tanakh?

“The Book of Daniel would not be out of place in the prophetic section, Joshua, Judges and Kinds are included in the Prophets, and the translators of the Septuagint version of the Jewish Scriptures placed Daniel there also.” Joseph D. Wilson, “Did Daniel Write Daniel,” page 84.

“…the present position of the Book (of Daniel) in the Hebrew Canon is not its original position. We have it on the authority of the Jewish historian Josephus that at the close of the first century A.D. the Canon of the Old Testament books was differently arranged from that which is presently accepted among the Jews; and it is also evident from the writings of the Early Fathers that a change must have been made in the arrangement of the Jewish Canon between the middle of the third and the end of the fourth century A.D.” - Charles Boutflower, “In and Around the Book of Daniel,” pages 276-277.

Josephus in Contra Apionem 1:8 writes, “We have but twenty-two (books) containing the history of all time, books that are justly believed in; and of these, five are the books of Moses, which comprise the laws and earliest traditions from the creation of mankind down to his death. From the death of Moses to the reign of Artaxerxes, King of Persia, successor of Xerxes, the prophets who succeeded Moses wrote the history of the events that occurred in their own time, in thirteen books. The remaining four documents comprise hymns to God and the practical precepts to men.”

Daniel was included in those 13 books.



<chuckle>

What the liberal critics have to believe if Daniel didn’t write the Book of Daniel

“The (critics of Daniel) cannot believe in miracles and predictive prophecy which involve nothing but a simple faith in a wise and mighty and merciful God intervening in behalf of his people for his own glory and their salvation; BUT THEY CAN BELIEVE that a lot of obstreperous and cantankerous Jews who through all their history from Jacob and Esau down to the present time have disagreed and quarreled about almost everything, or nothing, could have accepted, unanimously and without a murmur, in an age when they were enlightened by the brilliant light of Plato’s philosophy, and Aristotle’s logic, and the criticism of the schools of Alexandria, a forged and fictitious document, untrue to the well remembered facts of their own experience and to the easily ascertained facts concerning their own past history and the history of the Babylonians, Medes, Persians, and Greeks of whom the author (of the book of Daniel) writes." R.D. Wilson, Studies in the Book of Daniel, pages 268, 269

“The Sanhedrin of the second century B.C. was composed of men of the type of John Hyrcanus; men famed for their piety and learning; men who were heirs of all the proud traditions of the Jewish faith, and themselves the sons of successors of the heroes of the noble Maccabean revolt. And yet we are asked to believe (by the critics of Daniel) that these men, with their extremely strict views of inspiration and their intense reverence of for their sacred writings….used their authority to smuggle into the Jewish Canon a book which, ex hypothesi, was a forgery, a literary fraud, and a religious novel of recent date.” R. Anderson, Daniel in the Critics Den, pages 104-105
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I wonder how many times you have cut/paste that late 19th century claptrap?? Trying to quote from that is the logically fallacy of the 'appeal to authority', because R Anderson didn't have any when it comes to religion, particularly when it comes to what the Jews know about their own relgion.
 
RAMOSS said:
I wonder how many times you have cut/paste that late 19th century claptrap?? Trying to quote from that is the logically fallacy of the 'appeal to authority', because R Anderson didn't have any when it comes to religion, particularly when it comes to what the Jews know about their own relgion.
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That's the kind of sloppy reply I have come to expect from you.

And don't try to tell me the Jews have their theology straight when throughout their history they have broken their covenant, rebelled against God and killed their prophets. And if you doubt that you can glean this from 1 Kings 19:

Then a voice said to him, “What are you doing here, Elijah?”

14 He replied, “I have been very zealous for the Lord God Almighty. The Israelites have rejected your covenant, torn down your altars, and put your prophets to death with the sword. I am the only one left, and now they are trying to kill me too.”
 
Logicman said:
That's the kind of sloppy reply I have come to expect from you.

And don't try to tell me the Jews have their theology straight when throughout their history they have broken their covenant, rebelled against God and killed their prophets. And if you doubt that you can glean this from 1 Kings 19:

Then a voice said to him, “What are you doing here, Elijah?”

14 He replied, “I have been very zealous for the Lord God Almighty. The Israelites have rejected your covenant, torn down your altars, and put your prophets to death with the sword. I am the only one left, and now they are trying to kill me too.”
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Fiction.
 
Logicman said:
That's the kind of sloppy reply I have come to expect from you.

And don't try to tell me the Jews have their theology straight when throughout their history they have broken their covenant, rebelled against God and killed their prophets. And if you doubt that you can glean this from 1 Kings 19:

Then a voice said to him, “What are you doing here, Elijah?”

14 He replied, “I have been very zealous for the Lord God Almighty. The Israelites have rejected your covenant, torn down your altars, and put your prophets to death with the sword. I am the only one left, and now they are trying to kill me too.”
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Shrug. Your misinterpretation of Jewish scripture is not any of my concern. It tell more about your prejudices than about scripture.
 
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