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Why do we suffer ?

imagep said:
That's why I'm not a big fan of painkillers. If I have a pain and go to the doctor, it's not to get relief from the pain, it's to find out what's causing the pain, and to correct the cause.

It just pisses me off when the doctor offers pain killers instead of a cure for the underlying pain.
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You would not be saying this after, say, knee replacement. You'd be begging for pain killers or to put in a coma, then a month later quite glad for the procedure cause you can actually walk again

You should know there isn't a cure for everything and especially without some amount of pain. Many chronic conditions can only be coped with. There are whole facilities built to ease the suffering of the dying. There are cancer wards where there is hope of recovery but they *also* try to alleviate pain. These are not incompatible goals
 
we suffer because a loving god wishes it, or so i've heard
 
whysoserious said:
Uncomfortableness helps us strive to be in situations that are less uncomfortable. This is a chemical process, I am sure, which explains why some suffer more than others even when they are in good situations.
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The neurotics for example.
 
Amadeus said:
We suffer in order to react, to grow, to change. Suffering is part of the human condition, without which we remain stagnant as a species. To me, that's why the notion of Heaven is abhorrent. A place bereft of suffering, of eternal life of happiness, is the epitome of hell.
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That might be true EXCEPT for the fact that Heaven is not like earth. In people in Heaven have been raised "incorruptible," and according to Revelation, there are no more tears and no more sorrow. If people there thought suffering could produce a happier lifestyle, they're not sorrowful about their heavenly condition.

But if people want suffering they can always drop down in Hell.
 
imagep said:
That's why I'm not a big fan of painkillers. If I have a pain and go to the doctor, it's not to get relief from the pain, it's to find out what's causing the pain, and to correct the cause.

It just pisses me off when
the doctor offers pain killers instead of a cure for the underlying pain.
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I believe that's pretty much how life works on this planet.
 
Medusa said:
share your feelings
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So we can learn how to lessen it's impact in the future.

We suffer when loved ones die, and learn we can survive it's impact.

We suffer when we are struggling economically, so we learn to change our circumstances so we lessen the chances of that happening again.

From an evolutionary standpoint it's a process from which the strong learn to improve themselves, and those who end up wallowing in it, eventually get removed from the human gene pool. We have a process of suffering because it improves the species chance of survival.
 
DDD said:
The neurotics for example.
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Right - or those who are clinically depressed. We operate on complex emotional systems, much of which derives from fight or flight and rewards systems. So it doesn't matter if you are a billionaire who has it all, if your fight or flight system is constantly on edge, or your reward system is broken... life could be tougher for you than most people will understand.
 
Luftwaffe said:
I may have worded myself in a wrong manner.

I wished there was a word that was deeper than simply "satisfaction" because I'm not just talking about satisfaction,
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 but rather, something deeper.
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Sometimes, maybe even most of the time, we can't get no satisfaction no matter how hard we try.

Here's something on that:

This came out just before I went to Vietnam.
 
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Logicman said:
That might be true EXCEPT for the fact that Heaven is not like earth. In people in Heaven have been raised "incorruptible," and according to Revelation, there are no more tears and no more sorrow. If people there thought suffering could produce a happier lifestyle, they're not sorrowful about their heavenly condition.

But if people want suffering they can always drop down in Hell.
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A realm in which growth is impossible is already Hell.
 
Logicman said:
I don't see anything in scripture that says growth in heaven is impossible.
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I'd like to know how growth is possible without negative stimuli, or why you'd want to grow if you're forced into perpetual bliss. Can I engage in intellectual philosophy in Heaven? Can I learn a new skill and take pride from failing and achieving success?
 
Amadeus said:
I'd like to know how growth is possible without negative stimuli, or why you'd want to grow if you're forced into perpetual bliss.
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For one thing it's not like earth. For another there's the Holy Spirit, who according to scripture, leads and educates people.

I also don't think anyone who goes to heaven is 'forced' into perpetual bliss. They make their free-will choice about Jesus and heaven while on earth.

Amadeus said:
Can I engage in intellectual philosophy in Heaven? Can I learn a new skill and take pride from failing and achieving success?
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In heaven you will learn and know the truth. I'm sure you can ask all the questions you want.

One last thing - if suffering is the only way to 'grow' an individual, then Hell would appear to be their best bet. But I seriously doubt anyone down there would, after five minutes of intense suffering, want to continue with it.
 
Why do we suffer?? Because we are born!
 
Logicman said:
For one thing it's not like earth. For another there's the Holy Spirit, who according to scripture, leads and educates people.
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Wow, an eternity of Sunday Bible studies. Where do I sign up?

I also don't think anyone who goes to heaven is 'forced' into perpetual bliss. They make their free-will choice about Jesus and heaven while on earth.
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And if they don't accept Jesus, they go to Hell. What a choice.

In heaven you will learn and know the truth. I'm sure you can ask all the questions you want.
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What if I ask a question that offends God?
 
Logicman said:
Who says it's all about Bible studies?
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If the Bible is the truth and the way, then I expect that Heaven would be like Bible study on steroids. Except that we'd all have a smile on our faces, because there is no pain or sorrow. Just row after row of people smiling, stretching unto eternity, listening to the Holy Spirit. Welcome to Heaven.

What if you stay on the course you're on and wind up in Hell?
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If the price of freedom is Hell, then I'm bound for Hell. I've already rejected Jesus as my savior. I might as well throw in with Lucifer, if those are my options.
 
imagep said:
That's why I'm not a big fan of painkillers. If I have a pain and go to the doctor, it's not to get relief from the pain, it's to find out what's causing the pain, and to correct the cause.

It just pisses me off when the doctor offers pain killers instead of a cure for the underlying pain.
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A good doctor will try to do both, but a "cure" may not be staring him or her in the face. Do you refuse the painkillers and stick with the pain? Do you like pain? Or the martyrdom of being in pain? In which case pain is not really suffering.

Like the patient who loves the sick rôle because they love the care and attention that goes with illness, hospitalisation etc. What would be suffering to most people wouldn't be suffering to them. So suffering is subjective.

In fairness, when most people go to the doctor's with a pain, they expect a pain killer.
 
We suffer because the universe doesn't care about us and neither the majority of other people. Even human empathy doesn't extend any further than it's own sightline.
 
I don't mean to split hairs but the concept of suffering needs to be delineated a lot in order for this discussion to be effective.

Suffering and pain are not the same thing. Being alive means you experience pain, also known as negative stimulation, in order to understand some of the consequences of one's environment, and of living. Pain is unavoidable.

Suffering is optional because it relates to how mind is used to frame the pain that's happening. It's like how in one instance someone can punch you in the arm lovingly to get a rise out of you, and in another case they're doing it because they hate you and want to hurt you. In one case you might suffer less, and in the other you might suffer more, even though the strength of the stimulation is the same. The only difference here is mind. One of the reasons why torture is not an effective means of truthful extraction of information is that people become desensitized to the pain through dissociation. So really, suffering is only a product of mind. If there's no mind, then suffering does not happen, even if the organism experiences constant pain. As organisms we instinctively move away from pain out of self-preservation, but we can suffer long after the pain is gone due to mental attachment.

Suffering in the existential sense refers to the constant state of "dissatisfactoriness" that everyone experiences, that nothing outside of oneself seems to quench for very long. Things that make us happy or pleased never seem to last forever and we can easily become trapped in the cycle of desire. Everything is temporal and there's nothing we can do to prevent change. In this case, we suffer because of attachment to things, instead of recognizing their temporal nature. Again, it relates to mind. True contentment can only come from this moment, and nothing beyond that. It is a choice and a practice, not something that's 'out there' to be found.
 
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