Prayer's Needed.. Why??

DifferentDrummr said:

Individually, better things tend to happen to people when they adopt and maintain a positive mindset. No reason that same principle shouldn't hold true on a group level.

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Agreed, I don't find the idea that there is some inter-connectivity on a quantum or metaphysical level to be all that outrageous.

SouthernDemocrat said:

Let me start by saying that I was raised Christian, but I am no longer religious. One thing that I often see are appeals like the following:

"My son [FONT=Helvetica, Arial, lucida grande, tahoma, verdana, arial, sans-serif]needs your prayers. He started shivering and spiked a high fever. We are at the hospital right now waiting for them to do some tests."[/FONT]

[FONT=Helvetica, Arial, lucida grande, tahoma, verdana, arial, sans-serif]"Our father was rushed to the hospital last night with chest pains. Please pray for him."[/FONT]

[FONT=Helvetica, Arial, lucida grande, tahoma, verdana, arial, sans-serif]"My wife's cancer is not responding to chemo. Please pray."[/FONT]

[FONT=Helvetica, Arial, lucida grande, tahoma, verdana, arial, sans-serif]We have all seen appeals like those. Parents whose child is sick or has been involved in an accident asking for others to pray for them. People praying for loved ones that are sick or have gone missing, or have been in an accident and so on. Of course we always feel for them, particularly when its a parent whose child is sick or injured. What I don't understand though is why if God is a good and loving god, does he need hundreds of people or more begging and pleading with him before he considers helping someone? It seems to me that if one is to accept the "power of prayer", then it follows that God is up there in heaven like this:

"Well sorry to tell you that you will have to watch your child die a long and agonizing death, but tell you what. If you get enough people down there to beg and plead with me on behalf of your child, I might, just might, change my mind."

Am I the only one that sees it that way?[/FONT]

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I think it's way simpler than you are making it out to be. When dealing with intense tragedy it is common to be overwhelmed and speechless. We rarely know what to say in this vulnerable state that you have described. In reality you may be thinking, "I love this person and I hate to see them hurting. I wish I could do something to make the situation better but I can't." That's not very comforting but saying, " I'll be praying for you." is very comforting. The hurting person knows that you love them and deeply desire to take the pain away. They also know that you can't and don't enjoy the fact that you feel helpless. They just appreciate you being there and making a gesture of compassion. They may say, "Please pray for me." What they mean is that they are sincerely sorry that their pain has made you feel hopeless and awkward. The words pray and prayer are default words derived from religious thought. Since a vulnerable and painful situation is an inappropriate time to have theological arguments we just allow these words to grasp our culture because we lack alternative cliches to use at a time when everybody is overwhelmed, helpless, speechless and vulnerable. Offering or requesting prayer is a cultural appropriate gesture to make. Your intent to pray or desire to pray are irrelevant. The person has already acknowledged that you care for them and they greatly appreciate it. It really isn't that big of a deal. It's just the right thing to say at that particular moment.

I am sometimes critical of American culture but I think the way to deal with medical difficulties of our friends and family through the gesture of our intent to pray is a solid answer for a time full of questions, fears and other scary emotions. Americans have a handle on this one.

For those who do believe in the power of prayer, this is an example of the perfect time to pray. You have to be humbled when you see just how vulnerable we are as human beings. Our view of the majesty of God is at its pinnacle during tragic situations. The prayers of a righteous man availeth much. The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom. Your vulnerable state is to your advantage when you approach the throne of God. It is good to be reminded how powerful God is. That attitude will be rewarding to you either through the situation at hand or through your spiritual journey moving forward. If my people which are called by my name shall humble themselves and seek my face then will I hear from heaven.

Jesus taught us how to pray in the Lord's prayer. Never did Jesus pray,"give me this or give me that." Praying during deep tragedy is very beneficial but not for the obvious reason of requesting healing. Christ never taught us to pray in such a way. This mass representation of Christianity is causing many people to turn away from the faith or to avoid it altogether. Christianity is logical. Corrupted versions of Christianity are ridiculous such as the concept of praying for benefits. That was a pagan ritual for Ba'al, Molech and other false Gods. We honor God. We don't order Him around and try to appease Him with our own efforts.

I don't think that most people expect prayer to fix and heal everybody and everything. Some people say, "I'll pray for you," as a gesture of hope to those suffering. When I was having surgery and being tested for cancer, somebody at work said she was praying for me. I thought it was very nice of her. After I had surgery, I was in severe pain, and I couldn't stand up. A complete stranger approached me and asked if she could pray for me, and I said yes. So she held my hand, and prayed out loud that she I would feel better and heal soon. I was very touched by her act.

I didn't expect to be healed and for my pain to go away, but to me, it was a symbol of others caring and showing interest in my wellbeing. That in itself was very touching.

When somebody dies, we may send flowers and cards to people grieving their death. Cards and flowers will not fix everything. Cards and flowers will not bring back the dead, but it's a nice gesture, and it shows people you care and want to help in anyway.

I know you live in the south, and I imagine the people are extremely religious there. I prefer people keep their faith and religion to themselves. If prayers are not wanted, then that should be respected. In all honestly, I am glad I am not surrounded by extreme religious people, because it would get on my nerves. There are many things some of the loud Christians do that I don't understand or think is annoying about them. For example, I know several people think God is always telling them or pushing them to do something, and it often seems like are just acting on impulse and not thinking things through. Some of those people have made some irresponsible life decisions IMO. A few others I know, are just selfish. They think God wants them to have this or that, and they backstab and run over everybody around them. I have also heard people say, "I'll pray for you," in a kind of offensive manner. I hate that.

SouthernDemocrat said:

Let me start by saying that I was raised Christian, but I am no longer religious. One thing that I often see are appeals like the following:

"My son [FONT=Helvetica, Arial, lucida grande, tahoma, verdana, arial, sans-serif]needs your prayers. He started shivering and spiked a high fever. We are at the hospital right now waiting for them to do some tests."[/FONT]

[FONT=Helvetica, Arial, lucida grande, tahoma, verdana, arial, sans-serif]"Our father was rushed to the hospital last night with chest pains. Please pray for him."[/FONT]

[FONT=Helvetica, Arial, lucida grande, tahoma, verdana, arial, sans-serif]"My wife's cancer is not responding to chemo. Please pray."[/FONT]

[FONT=Helvetica, Arial, lucida grande, tahoma, verdana, arial, sans-serif]We have all seen appeals like those. Parents whose child is sick or has been involved in an accident asking for others to pray for them. People praying for loved ones that are sick or have gone missing, or have been in an accident and so on. Of course we always feel for them, particularly when its a parent whose child is sick or injured. What I don't understand though is why if God is a good and loving god, does he need hundreds of people or more begging and pleading with him before he considers helping someone? It seems to me that if one is to accept the "power of prayer", then it follows that God is up there in heaven like this:

"Well sorry to tell you that you will have to watch your child die a long and agonizing death, but tell you what. If you get enough people down there to beg and plead with me on behalf of your child, I might, just might, change my mind."

Am I the only one that sees it that way?[/FONT]

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SheWolf said:

I don't think that most people expect prayer to fix and heal everybody and everything. Some people say, "I'll pray for you," as a gesture of hope to those suffering. When I was having surgery and being tested for cancer, somebody at work said she was praying for me. I thought it was very nice of her. After I had surgery, I was in severe pain, and I couldn't stand up. A complete stranger approached me and asked if she could pray for me, and I said yes. So she held my hand, and prayed out loud that she I would feel better and heal soon. I was very touched by her act.

I didn't expect to be healed and for my pain to go away, but to me, it was a symbol of others caring and showing interest in my wellbeing. That in itself was very touching.

When somebody dies, we may send flowers and cards to people grieving their death. Cards and flowers will not fix everything. Cards and flowers will not bring back the dead, but it's a nice gesture, and it shows people you care and want to help in anyway.

I know you live in the south, and I imagine the people are extremely religious there. I prefer people keep their faith and religion to themselves. If prayers are not wanted, then that should be respected. In all honestly, I am glad I am not surrounded by extreme religious people, because it would get on my nerves. There are many things some of the loud Christians do that I don't understand or think is annoying about them. For example, I know several people think God is always telling them or pushing them to do something, and it often seems like are just acting on impulse and not thinking things through. Some of those people have made some irresponsible life decisions IMO. A few others I know, are just selfish. They think God wants them to have this or that, and they backstab and run over everybody around them. I have also heard people say, "I'll pray for you," in a kind of offensive manner. I hate that.

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Awesome! I agree completely.

vasuderatorrent said:

I think it's way simpler than you are making it out to be. When dealing with intense tragedy it is common to be overwhelmed and speechless. We rarely know what to say in this vulnerable state that you have described. In reality you may be thinking, "I love this person and I hate to see them hurting. I wish I could do something to make the situation better but I can't." That's not very comforting but saying, " I'll be praying for you." is very comforting. The hurting person knows that you love them and deeply desire to take the pain away. They also know that you can't and don't enjoy the fact that you feel helpless. They just appreciate you being there and making a gesture of compassion. They may say, "Please pray for me." What they mean is that they are sincerely sorry that their pain has made you feel hopeless and awkward. The words pray and prayer are default words derived from religious thought. Since a vulnerable and painful situation is an inappropriate time to have theological arguments we just allow these words to grasp our culture because we lack alternative cliches to use at a time when everybody is overwhelmed, helpless, speechless and vulnerable. Offering or requesting prayer is a cultural appropriate gesture to make. Your intent to pray or desire to pray are irrelevant. The person has already acknowledged that you care for them and they greatly appreciate it. It really isn't that big of a deal. It's just the right thing to say at that particular moment.

I am sometimes critical of American culture but I think the way to deal with medical difficulties of our friends and family through the gesture of our intent to pray is a solid answer for a time full of questions, fears and other scary emotions. Americans have a handle on this one.

Click to expand...

I agree with this completely. I think there is absolutely zero supernatural power to prayer, but it's become synonymous with "My thoughts are with you". I don't ever bring up religion in such a situation, I usually just go along with it.

I do wish however that instead of offering cheap and meaningless "I'll pray for you" statements, we'd take a more pro-active approach and do something for that person. God isn't going to help them out of their situation, only human compassion can. It wasn't the unanswered prayers of the Jews in concentration camps that finally got them liberated, it was men who put their lives on the line to make it happen.

RabidAlpaca said:

I do wish however that instead of offering cheap and meaningless "I'll pray for you" statements, we'd take a more pro-active approach and do something for that person.

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The average person has no medical training.

New here, haven't read the whole thread so forgive me if I'm saying something already said.

This is just a social convention.

The person asking for prayers, to my mind, is in need of comfort and is asking for it.

The people who say "You are in my prayers" are providing that comfort.

Because I'm an athiest I usually just say "I really hope everything turns out ok".. Which, is pretty much the same thing as "I'll pray for you".

clownboy said:

I suppose that depends on your/their view of God. Personally I'm not of the view that God is a vending machine where if you only put in enough coins you get the item you selected.

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You may not be, but some others are.

For instance, I recently witnessed such a thing at work. This group of teenagers were hanging out just inside the door of our store. They stopped this woman and explained to her that they were on a "Godly treasure hunt". They were using random "clues" to lead them to where "God" wanted them to go. The one girl said she had just thought of the word "orange" when this woman with an orange shirt walked by them so that is why they stopped her. They then asked her if she was in any sort of pain at that time. When she answered "yes", they asked her if they could pray with her to get God to reduce her pain level. They prayed with her maybe 4 times until she told them that yes her pain was gone.

Now, this sort of thing to me is definitely a case of someone who believes that God is helping them working in their mind to make the pain go away. A mind overcoming pain thing, not God intervening. It is even possible that the woman consciously or subconsciously just wanting to get out of there so telling them the pain went away, whether it did or not. I think she may have believed it, but I'm not always great at judging how truthful someone is being, particularly someone I don't know. But the group at least almost certainly believed that it was their prayers to God being answered and Him taking away this woman's pain. It comes down to more of the person believing what they want to rather than the actual truth. And it is probably best that way since I don't think it would really work well for at least many of these people if they didn't believe that God intervened even if to many of us skeptics view it as what it most likely is, the mind overcoming the pain on its own.

vasuderatorrent said:

The average person has no medical training.

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This was a rather lazy and non-sensical response. Is prayer reserved only for medical conditions? Also, when you have a medical condition, do you go down to the church and try to pray it away, or do you go visit a man at a hospital who's spent his life studying medicine?

Prayer is nothing more than "good luck buddy". When you need a problem actually fixed you consult a human being.

The benefit from prayer is the same as the benefit from meditation.

RabidAlpaca said:

Is prayer reserved only for medical conditions?

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It is improper to pray for medical conditions according to Christ's sermon on the mount.

RabidAlpaca said:

Also, when you have a medical condition, do you go down to the church and try to pray it away, or do you go visit a man at a hospital who's spent his life studying medicine?

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Neither one. When someone has a medical condition I leave that to the experts. It isn't any of my business.

RabidAlpaca said:

Prayer is nothing more than "good luck buddy". When you need a problem actually fixed you consult a human being.

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Prayer is jack squat. Saying that you'll pray for someone is a gesture of empathy and compassion. The gesture of saying that you'll pray is greatly appreciated by the sufferer even if the sufferer happens to be an atheist. You should read my other posts in this thread.