What Beliefs Did People Hold To Be True At The Time Before The Birth Of Jesus?

I have never come across anything that discusses what beliefs in general people held at the time of the birth of Jesus. Ignorance was abundant in those times but was any book ever written to bring to light what people believed to be true? How old did they think the Earth was? Why did the Earth exist? Was it flat? What was the moon and sun and stars? What happened after death? Was one race superior to another? Who were the great teachers back then and what did they base their teachings on? I am not talking about the Romans and Greeks etc., as I know they had all kinds of gods just from the movies. I am aware of the so called great philosophers but what about the average folks in the country sides?

rhinefire said:

I have never come across anything that discusses what beliefs in general people held at the time of the birth of Jesus. Ignorance was abundant in those times but was any book ever written to bring to light what people believed to be true? How old did they think the Earth was? Why did the Earth exist? Was it flat? What was the moon and sun and stars? What happened after death? Was one race superior to another? Who were the great teachers back then and what did they base their teachings on? I am not talking about the Romans and Greeks etc., as I know they had all kinds of gods just from the movies. I am aware of the so called great philosophers but what about the average folks in the country sides?

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You are asking questions under improper assumptions. At the time of Jesus an extremely high percentage (as in the high 90% range for the most part) of the populations for various early societies was unsophisticated in life, uneducated to the point of not being able to read or write the basic language they spoke, and often was subject to the whim of whatever government or authority was over them at the time. There was no system of science, nor a system of methodical discovery, nor were philosophers more socially commingled with other elements of society as they perhaps are more recently in human history. So, beliefs in deity, origin of life, matters based on the idea of time, and these other basic questions varied from culture to culture and were often too simplistic to consider in terms of more advanced systems of belief towards the time of Jesus.

Look at it this way, most of society at the time of Jesus (let alone before) had no conceptualization ability to wonder about the world being flat or round. They may have been told what it was by some philosopher but that does not mean they acquired any real experience or ability to understand what they were told. It is the difference between knowing there are things out there you do not understand, and not having the first inkling at all about things you did not understand. Another for instance, Mathematics was never designed as a means of understanding things. It was purely to handle dealing with trade of various items within and with outside cultures. If you look at things on that level then it might give you some insight into what motivated them to understand various things around them. If it effected their daily lives there would be interest, if it means wondering why one star is brighter than another probably not. Not that they had any idea what a star was anyway.

Meaning, they often turned to systems of belief which tend to coincide with society development. But that does not always mean they were complex oriented designs of systems of belief. Polytheism, even though it sounds like it would be more complex, was more story driven to simply explain what they did not understand. Monotheism on the other hand seems to introduce what more major empires of the period needed, more specific aspects of social control devices still wrapped up in greater stories that were more complex over their older polytheistic story counterparts. Ironic, but true as society advances tend to push belief systems to also advance in some regard.

rhinefire said:

I have never come across anything that discusses what beliefs in general people held at the time of the birth of Jesus.

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Uh... okay... you do know that Roman, Jewish and other religions at that time were pretty well documented, right?

Ignorance was abundant in those times

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Ignorance is abundant today. What's your point?

but was any book ever written to bring to light what people believed to be true? How old did they think the Earth was?

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AFAIK most religions didn't really specify a date. I don't think they really cared too deeply. They just knew it was a "long time ago."

Why did the Earth exist?

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Because deities created them.

Was it flat?

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A typical peasant might think the Earth was flat, but lots of people at that time knew that wasn't true. The ancient Greeks worked it out, and sailors realized that land and ships receded past the horizon. The claim that "people believed the Earth was flat!" is mostly an anti-Catholic slur, started in the 17th century. (Myth of the Flat Earth - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)

What was the moon and sun and stars?

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Most religions believed that the moon and stars were deities. E.g. Apollo was the Sun god, and he drove the sun across the sky. Poseidon set Cassiopeia upside-down in the stars, to punish her. Ra was the Egyptian sun god. Romans thought the moon was a deity (Luna), Greeks called her Selene.

What happened after death?

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Greeks / Romans believed that souls of the dead went to Tartarus, the underworld, ruled by Hades (called Pluto or Orcus by the Romans) and his abducted wife Persephone (Prosperina). There was no judgment of the dead.

Jews didn't believe in an afterlife.

Was one race superior to another?

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Not in the modern racist sense, no. However, the Greeks and Romans looked down on other societies, and often called them "barbarians" as their language, to them, sounded like someone saying "bar-bar-bar." That said, Herodotus traveled to Egypt and claims to have learned much about northern Africans and others, and described them as fairly sophisticated.

The Jews believed they were chosen to represent HaShem on Earth. Not necessarily superior, but with a responsibility to do His will.

Who were the great teachers back then and what did they base their teachings on? I am not talking about the Romans and Greeks etc

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Hesiod, Homer, Plato, Socrates, Aristotle, Pythagoras, Parmenides, Virgil, Heraclitus, Epicurus, Lucretius, Zeno of Citium, Epicetus.... The list goes on. Sophists were popular at the time of Socrates, Plato and Aristotle. Those WERE the great teachers.

Jews mostly followed the rabbis affiliated with the Second Temple in Jerusalem. There were also numerous wandering itinerant Jewish preachers in Judea, many of whom were suppressed by the Roman occupation.

Of course, most people didn't have much (if any) education. Teachers typically worked for the affluent city-dwellers.

I am aware of the so called great philosophers but what about the average folks in the country sides?

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"So called great?" You do realize that Christianity and the West owe a huge debt to Parmenides, Plato, Aristotle, Epicetus, Homer and others?

"Average folks?" Farmers weren't exactly philosophical. Most people couldn't read, and believed the Greek and Roman myths above. They routinely made sacrifices, played sports, attended dramas as religious observances.

Some books: Everyday Life in Ancient Greece: Nigel Rodgers: 9781780191461: Amazon.com: Books
Amazon.com: Daily Life in the Roman City: Rome, Pompeii, and Ostia (9780806140278): Gregory S. Aldrete: Books
Amazon.com: The Greeks (Penguin History) eBook: H. Kitto: Books

OrphanSlug said:

You are asking questions under improper assumptions. At the time of Jesus an extremely high percentage (as in the high 90% range for the most part) of the populations for various early societies was unsophisticated in life, uneducated to the point of not being able to read or write the basic language they spoke, and often was subject to the whim of whatever government or authority was over them at the time. There was no system of science, nor a system of methodical discovery, nor were philosophers were more socially commingled with other elements of society as they perhaps are more recently in human history. So, beliefs in deity, origin of life, matters based on the idea of time, and these other basic questions varied from culture to culture and were often too simplistic to consider in terms of more advanced systems of belief towards the time of Jesus.

Look at it this way, most of society at the time of Jesus (let alone before) had no conceptualization ability to wonder about the world being flat or round. They may have been told what it was by some philosopher but that does not mean they acquired any real experience or ability to understand what they were told. It is the difference between knowing there are things out there you do not understand, and not having the first inkling at all about things you did not understand. Another for instance, Mathematics was never designed as a means of understanding things. It was purely to handle dealing with trade of various items within and with outside cultures. If you look at things on that level then it might give you some insight into what motivated them to understand various things around them. If it effected their daily lives there would be interest, if it means wondering why one star is brighter than another probably not. Not that they had any idea what a star was anyway.

Meaning, they often turned to systems of belief which tend to coincide with society development. But that does not always mean they were complex oriented designs of systems of belief. Polytheism, even though it sounds like it would be more complex, was more story driven to simply explain what they did not understand. Monotheism on the other hand seems to introduce what more major empires of the period needed, more specific aspects of social control devices still wrapped up in greater stories that were more complex over their older polytheistic story counterparts. Ironic, but true as society advances tend to push belief systems to also advance in some regard.

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The sheer number of artifacts related to astrological matters would seem to negate much of your commentary.

Declan said:

The sheer number of artifacts related to astrological matters would seem to negate much of your commentary.

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It was not an argument that there would be more or less artifacts, it was an argument about the percentage of society who would have made them and why.

rhinefire said:

I have never come across anything that discusses what beliefs in general people held at the time of the birth of Jesus. Ignorance was abundant in those times but was any book ever written to bring to light what people believed to be true? How old did they think the Earth was? Why did the Earth exist? Was it flat? What was the moon and sun and stars? What happened after death? Was one race superior to another? Who were the great teachers back then and what did they base their teachings on? I am not talking about the Romans and Greeks etc., as I know they had all kinds of gods just from the movies. I am aware of the so called great philosophers but what about the average folks in the country sides?

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I read somewhere that the Egyptians determined that the Earth was round by choosing a predetermined day and time and then measuring the shadow cast by a straight stick in the southern part of the nation, and then doing the same for a straight stick in the northern part of the nation. That's a surprisingly simple method...though from what I understand, they were off in their determination of Earth's circumference by about 9000 miles or so.

OrphanSlug said:

You are asking questions under improper assumptions. At the time of Jesus an extremely high percentage (as in the high 90% range for the most part) of the populations for various early societies was unsophisticated in life, uneducated to the point of not being able to read or write the basic language they spoke, and often was subject to the whim of whatever government or authority was over them at the time. There was no system of science, nor a system of methodical discovery, nor were philosophers more socially commingled with other elements of society as they perhaps are more recently in human history. So, beliefs in deity, origin of life, matters based on the idea of time, and these other basic questions varied from culture to culture and were often too simplistic to consider in terms of more advanced systems of belief towards the time of Jesus.

Look at it this way, most of society at the time of Jesus (let alone before) had no conceptualization ability to wonder about the world being flat or round. They may have been told what it was by some philosopher but that does not mean they acquired any real experience or ability to understand what they were told. It is the difference between knowing there are things out there you do not understand, and not having the first inkling at all about things you did not understand. Another for instance, Mathematics was never designed as a means of understanding things. It was purely to handle dealing with trade of various items within and with outside cultures. If you look at things on that level then it might give you some insight into what motivated them to understand various things around them. If it effected their daily lives there would be interest, if it means wondering why one star is brighter than another probably not. Not that they had any idea what a star was anyway.

Meaning, they often turned to systems of belief which tend to coincide with society development. But that does not always mean they were complex oriented designs of systems of belief. Polytheism, even though it sounds like it would be more complex, was more story driven to simply explain what they did not understand. Monotheism on the other hand seems to introduce what more major empires of the period needed, more specific aspects of social control devices still wrapped up in greater stories that were more complex over their older polytheistic story counterparts. Ironic, but true as society advances tend to push belief systems to also advance in some regard.

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I think this is largely misleading... there were many ancient religions and philosophers that were quite advanced before Jesus' time. The ancient Asian continent had Buddhism, Confucianism, Taoism, Hinduism... all predating Jesus'. The Romans and the Greeks had their fair share of Philosophers and religions. Pagan tribes all over the place like the Norse, Assyria, Babylon etc. believed in various God's and goddesses with similar stories of the religions of today... but they eventually deemed unpopular. The Native Americans, had their own religions with a similar creation story that spanned the entire continent, all of them had complex astrology with the psychics aligning the stars. The ancient Egyptians.... enough said

rhinefire said:

I have never come across anything that discusses what beliefs in general people held at the time of the birth of Jesus. Ignorance was abundant in those times but was any book ever written to bring to light what people believed to be true? How old did they think the Earth was? Why did the Earth exist? Was it flat? What was the moon and sun and stars? What happened after death? Was one race superior to another? Who were the great teachers back then and what did they base their teachings on? I am not talking about the Romans and Greeks etc., as I know they had all kinds of gods just from the movies. I am aware of the so called great philosophers but what about the average folks in the country sides?

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Really?

You ask that question with a strait face?

One, read the Bible and see for yourself.

Read Greek history and learn that homosexuality was an accepted practice by most men, a 'right of passage' to be the consort of an older, wiser lover.

Read Roman history and learn about how crucifixion came into being.

It's all there, in writing and has been taught for 2,000 years. Look under "ancient history" and "anthropology". Don't forget to include Chinese and Asian history, as their customs were rather different.

celticwar17 said:

I think this is largely misleading... there were many ancient religions and philosophers that were quite advanced before Jesus' time. The ancient Asian continent had Buddhism, Confucianism, Taoism, Hinduism... all predating Jesus'. The Romans and the Greeks had their fair share of Philosophers and religions. Pagan tribes all over the place like the Norse, Assyria, Babylon etc. believed in various God's and goddesses with similar stories of the religions of today... but they eventually deemed unpopular. The Native Americans, had their own religions with a similar creation story that spanned the entire continent, all of them had complex astrology with the psychics aligning the stars. The ancient Egyptians.... enough said

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Agreed, but not all religions had the same complexity of thought. Take two examples from your own list. Just on a level of complexity and purpose, Buddhism and Native American belief systems were no where near each other. There are very few ways to even compare the two. And that makes perfect sense, sociologically and developmentally they were no where near each other.

In that context it becomes clear that complexity of religion tends to coincide with societal development. It is not an accident that European influences got to the "new world" to find cultures with belief systems widely behind them in complexity and purpose. Scope of thought, how they explained things with systems of belief. No where near each other. We have no choice, from just an anthropological point of view, to make these associations of various societies as they advance throughout history... then perhaps collide.

Fearandloathing said:

Really?

You ask that question with a strait face?

One, read the Bible and see for yourself.

Read Greek history and learn that homosexuality was an accepted practice by most men, a 'right of passage' to be the consort of an older, wiser lover.

Read Roman history and learn about how crucifixion came into being.

It's all there, in writing and has been taught for 2,000 years. Look under "ancient history" and "anthropology". Don't forget to include Chinese and Asian history, as their customs were rather different.

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And in some regards, Far East cultures were way ahead. Culturally with their systems of belief.

OrphanSlug said:

And in some regards, Far East cultures were way ahead. Culturally with their systems of belief.

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Absolutely. When the first Europeans set foot in China, the locals named them "beasts who never bathe".

Fearandloathing said:

Really?

You ask that question with a strait face?

One, read the Bible and see for yourself.

Read Greek history and learn that homosexuality was an accepted practice by most men, a 'right of passage' to be the consort of an older, wiser lover.

Read Roman history and learn about how crucifixion came into being.

It's all there, in writing and has been taught for 2,000 years. Look under "ancient history" and "anthropology". Don't forget to include Chinese and Asian history, as their customs were rather different.

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This "Bible" as you refer to it was written when and who in their right mind would believe more than two words in that hideous fairy tale? If you could read my post I write "at the time of the birth of Jesus", not long after the event. What does homosexuality and the crucifixion have to do with anything and why should I read Roman history? Where do I isolate Rome in my post? If you understand what you read I am asking a question of the general population of the world. Gee, thanks for enlightening me on the Asian continents, I did not know they existed until June 7, 1941.

rhinefire said:

This "Bible" as you refer to it was written when and who in their right mind would believe more than two words in that hideous fairy tale? If you could read my post I write "at the time of the birth of Jesus", not long after the event. What does homosexuality and the crucifixion have to do with anything and why should I read Roman history? Where do I isolate Rome in my post? If you understand what you read I am asking a question of the general population of the world. Gee, thanks for enlightening me on the Asian continents, I did not know they existed until June 7, 1941.

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Thank you for that entirely unnecessary and unwarranted off topic hate filled bull****.

No go away

Greek and Roman science predated the time of Christ...in fact the Greeks understood the world was round. And Jewish, Roman, pagan, Zoroastrian religions existed at the time, not to mention the religions associated with East Asian cultures at the time.

Glen Contrarian said:

I read somewhere that the Egyptians determined that the Earth was round by choosing a predetermined day and time and then measuring the shadow cast by a straight stick in the southern part of the nation, and then doing the same for a straight stick in the northern part of the nation. That's a surprisingly simple method...though from what I understand, they were off in their determination of Earth's circumference by about 9000 miles or so.

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That was a Greek. June 19, 240 B.C.: The Earth Is Round, and It's This Big

zyzygy said:

That was a Greek. June 19, 240 B.C.: The Earth Is Round, and It's This Big

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Thanks - I appreciate that!

Glen Contrarian said:

Thanks - I appreciate that!

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Washington Irving was partly responsible for the myth. He stated it in his fictional book "The Life And Voyages Of Christopher Columbus".
Busting a myth about Columbus and a flat Earth - The Answer Sheet - The Washington Post