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A True Christian View On Homosexuality

ThePlayDrive said:
At the most, the Bible says that homosexual ACTS are sinful. It doesn't say that homosexuality is sinful so gay people alone are not sinners because they are gay, according to the Bible.
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Unchaste thoughts...that is, thoughts of a sexual nature prior to marriage, are a sin.



Ergo, lusting after the same sex is a egregious a sin as the act itself.
 
KevinKohler said:
Unchaste thoughts...that is, thoughts of a sexual nature prior to marriage, are a sin.

Ergo, lusting after the same sex is a egregious a sin as the act itself.
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Unchaste thoughts are a sin for everybody, including straight people. Like I said, the Bible doesn't state that gay people are sinners for being gay.
 
KevinKohler said:
Fact of the matter is, a devout christian, one who adheres to the teachings of the bible, is going to believe that gay men and women are doomed to an eternity in hell.

The problem is, consistency with that bible. I believe it has a thing or two to say about women who cheat, as opposed to men who cheat, but that's all considered "old school", or "antiquated", and is, therefor, largely ignored by the very same people, like Goshin, who will preach from the exact same book, in some cases, from the very same verses, and expect us all to adhere to it's most literal translation.


Cherry pickers, in other words. And Christianity is like life...you can't cherry pick it. You gotta take your good with the bad. I've have, thus far, only met one guy on this forum who is consistent, in this regard, and that's Paleocon, who is, possibly, crazy.
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Really? Please quote me where I've said some of these things you are attributing to me. If not, leave me out of your strawman fantasies.
 
A true Christian view? Ha! That'll be the day! :mrgreen:
 
Bob Blaylock said:
Unfortunately, one cannot live in our society these days and not see a pretty good view of where this is going. Although it seems that there are many who choose to remain willfully blind to what is right in front of them.
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By any objective measure, we are more moral today most likely than any other point in the history of mankind. Violent crime is down to the lowest point in decades, murders are way down to the lowest point in decades. Death in wars is down to the lowest point in decades. Just a generation ago it was perfectly acceptable to treat an entire race of people as second class citizens. 150 years ago it was perfectly acceptable to enslave millions of people in this country. It was also perfectly acceptable to slaughter Indians by the millions. I can go on and on.

Compared to slavery, the wholesale genocide of Native Americans, segregation, child labor, sweatshops and so on, I think the internet porn of today and the fact that gays and lesbians can be open and accepted is (even if you consider that sinful) is by far the lesser of the two evils.
 
While I am on the topic, this is what gets me. I don't know how many times I have heard social conservatives / religious right types compare America to a modern day Sodom and Gomorrah because we tolerate and accept homosexuality today. Ok, lets look at the basic story of Sodom:

Two angels as agents of God came down and took the form of men to see if there were any righteous men living there. They were lodged and ate with Lot, the most righteous man in Sodom. As they were eating dinner a mob formed wanting to gang rape the two angels. Lot offered them his virgin daughters to rape instead. The crowd didn't want to just rape Lot's daughters, so the angels saved them by blinding the crowd of would be rapists… and everyone should know the story from here.

So anyway, America is supposed to be comparable to Sodom because we accept gays and lesbians and in many states now allow them to marry? Seriously??? The nicest guy in Sodom was perfectly willing for his daughters to be gang-raped, that was the nicest guy in all of Sodom and the USA is supposed to be morally comparable to that?
 
ThePlayDrive said:
At the most, the Bible says that homosexual ACTS are sinful. It doesn't say that homosexuality is sinful so gay people alone are not sinners because they are gay, according to the Bible.
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Mark 7:20-23

And he said, “What comes out of a person is what defiles him. For from within, out of the heart of man, come evil thoughts, sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery, coveting, wickedness, deceit, sensuality, envy, slander, pride, foolishness. All these evil things come from within, and they defile a person.”

From a biblical perspective, if someone is gay, unless they can manage to never lust after anyone of their sex for their entire life, then they are a sinner. Then again, I think the Bible is a far better reflection of the social norms and culture of the ancient Hebrew tribes (ancient peoples that committed all sorts of acts we would consider crimes against humanity today) at the time than it is a barometer of morality today.
 
Bob Blaylock said:
Unfortunately, one cannot live in our society these days and not see a pretty good view of where this is going. Although it seems that there are many who choose to remain willfully blind to what is right in front of them.
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What has happened is that we are taking the cruel nastiness of discrimination out of our society and that apparently makes up a huge part of some Christians religion. As much as it hurts us to take the wind out of your sails, it is the 21st century and it is no longer acceptable to persecute people because of their sexual preferences. If that make your religion appear weak and ineffectual you need to find a different religion. A religion should have more than that.
 
Goshin said:
If you wish to.


Since the subject was "True Christians", I had this strange notion the bible might be somewhat relevant.


How silly of me. :)
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Then why not all of it... and why not all sin. I think was Ricky's point. Cherry picking should be for cherry pickers and not biblists.
 
RGacky3 said:
Yes, we are all sinners.
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That's the point.
Don't throw stones in your gigantic glass house.

There's no point, no benefit, and only hypocrisy when you call someones else a "sinner".
 
Dragonfly said:
That's the point.
Don't throw stones in your gigantic glass house.

There's no point, no benefit, and only hypocrisy when you call someones else a "sinner".
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The house is so gigantic that you can't throw a stone that far. Think about it!

;)
 
RGacky3 said:
Yes, we are all sinners, some are violent, some are adulterors, some are greedy.

But what is not ok is to celebrate and identify as Your sin.
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Why not, if it is not punishable?
 
Dragonfly said:
From a christian perspective: Everyone is a sinner.

Nobody gets a free pass.
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Yeah, I read it. I'm referring to the fact that he brought up sin in relation to talking about gay people. In other words, he's saying that he won't condemn gay people because his sins aren't any better than the sin of being gay. This is a very common position among Christians and even though it's progress, I still don't like it.
 
Ricky Scaggs knows the people that sing country music are no saints. Ricky Knows that the "mom and apple pie" selling of CM is a schtick as much as "gangsta" is to hip-hop. It's about selling albums.

Ricky knows the CM fans are every bit as much "down in the dirt" as all as any other types of music fan.

Only a idiot would believe the CM fan is more chaste than any other American.

That was Ricky's message to CM..."Don't be ****ing hypocrites"
 
SouthernDemocrat said:
Mark 7:20-23

And he said, “What comes out of a person is what defiles him. For from within, out of the heart of man, come evil thoughts, sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery, coveting, wickedness, deceit, sensuality, envy, slander, pride, foolishness. All these evil things come from within, and they defile a person.”

From a biblical perspective, if someone is gay, unless they can manage to never lust after anyone of their sex for their entire life, then they are a sinner. Then again, I think the Bible is a far better reflection of the social norms and culture of the ancient Hebrew tribes (ancient peoples that committed all sorts of acts we would consider crimes against humanity today) at the time than it is a barometer of morality today.
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The passage you quoted applies to everybody, including straight people. There is nothing in the Bible that, as I said, calls gay people sinners just for being gay.
 
Dragonfly said:
That's the point.
Don't throw stones in your gigantic glass house.

There's no point, no benefit, and only hypocrisy when you call someones else a "sinner".
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of coarse, but we also must recognize what is and is not a sin, and not celebrate it.
 
joG said:
Why not, if it is not punishable?
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All sin is punishable, but we have redemtion thought Christ, but acceptance of that means having the mind of Christ, which means loving good and rejecting sin as best we can.

I'm not gonna hate someone who commits adultary, or is violent, they deserve Grace and forgiveness, but I'm not gonna celebrate their sin.
 
Shouldn't this be moved to the religion forum?
 
1750Texan said:
Ricky Scaggs knows the people that sing country music are no saints. Ricky Knows that the "mom and apple pie" selling of CM is a schtick as much as "gangsta" is to hip-hop. It's about selling albums.

Ricky knows the CM fans are every bit as much "down in the dirt" as all as any other types of music fan.

Only a idiot would believe the CM fan is more chaste than any other American.

That was Ricky's message to CM..."Don't be ****ing hypocrites"
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I guarantee you Ricky wouldn't have dropped the f-bomb. ;)
 
RGacky3 said:
All sin is punishable, but we have redemtion thought Christ,
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Which applies as equally to gay people, as it does to straight people.

I have "faith" that many many gay people will be accepted into heaven (if there is such a thing) loooooooooooooooooonnggg before many bigoted, hateful, self-righteous straight bible-thumpers will be accepted.

The respect you have for others, and how you treat others who are doing no harm is surely a very important aspect of life and final judgement.
(assuming you believe is such things)
 
Dragonfly said:
Which applies as equally to gay people, as it does to straight people.

I have "faith" that many many gay people will be accepted into heaven (if there is such a thing) loooooooooooooooooonnggg before many bigoted, hateful, self-righteous straight bible-thumpers will be accepted.

The respect you have for others, and how you treat others who are doing no harm is surely a very important aspect of life and final judgement.
(assuming you believe is such things)
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Oh I absolutely agree, but at the same time, if you're a christian, celebrating sin, and identifying as the sin you do, is not acceptable.
 
ThePlayDrive said:
The passage you quoted applies to everybody, including straight people. There is nothing in the Bible that, as I said, calls gay people sinners just for being gay.
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From a Biblical perspective a heterosexual man can have lustful thoughts about his wife and not be a sinner because of it, but there is nothing someone who is gay can do (unless they somehow purge their mind of all thoughts) and not be a sinner. Its a silly distinction anyway as why would anyone that is gay ever be a practicing Christian as scripture plainly states that best case scenario, if they ever act on their desires and thus choose to live a happy life with someone they love, they will be judged for it and cast into hell upon their death spending eternity enduring pain and torment so horrible we cannot even conceive of it. Being a gay Christian is like being a gay Republican, in both cases you are hanging out with a bunch of people that don't like you. ;)

Back when I was religious we were Episcopalian. The Episcopal Church has always been very tolerant of gays and lesbians, but then again no one ever accused the Episcopal Church as fundamentally adhering to scripture either.

This thread makes me think of this: http://www.theonion.com/articles/gay-man-unaware-he-focus-of-thousands-of-prayers,37504/
 
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Dragonfly said:
Finally....somebody else gets it.

Ricky Skaggs -- Gay Country Singers Welcomed ... 'We're All Sinners' | TMZ.com

Stop judging people.

We're all sinners. We all have sin.

Your place is not to judge.

Ricky Skaggs is awesome.
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Yes, he is, and I am a longtime admirer of his.

Here is what else TMZ says, though:

Our photog ran into Skaggs in Nashville, so he asked about country singers Ty Herndon and Billy Gilman coming out. Skaggs seems genuinely accepting -- both for him and on behalf of the country world -- until he drops the line, "We're all sinners."

It's an interesting question for people fighting for gay rights -- can someone be on the right side for the wrong reason?

Ricky Skaggs -- Gay Country Singers Welcomed ... 'We're All Sinners' | TMZ.com

TMZ doesn't get it. (No surprise.)
 
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