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If You Had To Chose Between A God Fearing Person vs. An Atheist ....

Re: If You Had Tio Chose Between A God Fearing Person vs. An Atheist ....

This is no different than asking, what's better a dump truck or a bus....

Now I'm all about discussing morality, but if you want a meaningful conversation where you don't get responses like mine, try being a tinnie bit more specific.

We get it. You don't like thinking.

It's not like anybody here is ever going to hold you down to what you say. Just give us some ideas and thoughts. She isn't asking you to make a decision on a real person. This is a discussion so that we can better understand the world. It would be a pleasure if you were willing to participate.

Your refusal to participate isn't really that impressive. You could have stayed away from this thread altogether and made the same point that you have already made. You haven't helped us analyze our daily interactions with religious people. You haven't given us any food for thought on how to respond to atheist when we encounter them.

What are you protecting yourself from? This is an anonymous message board full of goof balls just like you and me. Don't be afraid to share your ideas. It won't hurt.
 
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Re: If You Had Tio Chose Between A God Fearing Person vs. An Atheist ....

If there were two very similar types of people with the only outstanding difference is one is religious and the other is not which of the two would you or could say might be the "better" person morally?

I'd certainly say that the religious person would have more in common with me, personally, than the other. That might very well lead me to look upon them in a more favorable light on first impression.

However, it'd be impossible to say much more than that without getting to know them better.
 
If You Had Tio Chose Between A God Fearing Person vs. An Atheist ....

If there were two very similar types of people with the only outstanding difference is one is religious and the other is not which of the two would you or could say might be the "better" person morally?

If their actions are yielding the same level of harm or lack of it to their fellow man, then they are equally moral

However it never works that way in reality. Everyone is an individual
 
Re: If You Had Tio Chose Between A God Fearing Person vs. An Atheist ....

I've met very moral individuals who were atheist, and very moral individuals who were extremely religious. I've met amoral individuals who were atheistic, and amoral individuals who were extremely religious. I have no preference regarding association with one vs the other. I just like to hang around people who have very strong character, which doesn't necessarily mean that they meet the moral standards as set by the majority of society. It's not the morals so much as strength of character, and the ability to always be true.
 
Re: If You Had Tio Chose Between A God Fearing Person vs. An Atheist ....

If there were two very similar types of people with the only outstanding difference is one is religious and the other is not which of the two would you or could say might be the "better" person morally?

I would choose the one offering to burn a bowl with me.
 
Re: If You Had Tio Chose Between A God Fearing Person vs. An Atheist ....

Are you sure? Because I think you just did.



Look at my post again, I said "waste or don't waste". IOW: I equivocated.

We don't want to slam the door shut on a possible chance at paradise, eh? Better to leave it open just a crack.
 
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Re: If You Had Tio Chose Between A God Fearing Person vs. An Atheist ....

if-all-the-atheists-left-the-usa-10936-1305011862-34.jpg


Based on prison population percentage and great minds, the better odds are on the atheist.

That's interesting, but i think it better reflects intelligence or utility or even poverty rates than morality per se. Are most prisoners there because religion *causes* lapses in morality, or is it mostly that the desperately poor turn to religion before prison? Perhaps prison itself causes increase in religiosity.
 
Re: If You Had Tio Chose Between A God Fearing Person vs. An Atheist ....

I live in a sensible secular country so the question would not arise. I assume that everyone I know is an atheist because none of them go to church. Religion is never discussed here, it is immaterial and plays no part in daily life. I've lived here for 40 years and have never been asked if I am an atheist or not. Nobody would care, it's not like the States here.

There are plenty of places, especially college towns, that are mostly as you describe, yes even in the States. Whenever religion is 'discussed' it seems to always be some middle aged nut who comes to campus alone and raves "You deserve hell" and other boring tripe. A small crowd just gathers and laughs at them.

But it's true that as a whole, the US is the most religious developed country other than i think turkey. That's slowly changing though, cause the young are rejecting religion in record numbers.
 
Re: If You Had Tio Chose Between A God Fearing Person vs. An Atheist ....

We get it. You don't like thinking.

It's not like anybody here is ever going to hold you down to what you say. Just give us some ideas and thoughts. She isn't asking you to make a decision on a real person. This is a discussion so that we can better understand the world. It would be a pleasure if you were willing to participate.

Your refusal to participate isn't really that impressive. You could have stayed away from this thread altogether and made the same point that you have already made. You haven't helped us analyze our daily interactions with religious people. You haven't given us any food for thought on how to respond to atheist when we encounter them.

What are you protecting yourself from? This is an anonymous message board full of goof balls just like you and me. Don't be afraid to share your ideas. It won't hurt.

LOL, never had a problem sharing my ideas, especially on morality....

http://www.debatepolitics.com/philosophical-discussions/203157-foundation-secular-morality-and-ethics.html
 
Re: If You Had Tio Chose Between A God Fearing Person vs. An Atheist ....

That's interesting, but i think it better reflects intelligence or utility or even poverty rates than morality per se. Are most prisoners there because religion *causes* lapses in morality, or is it mostly that the desperately poor turn to religion before prison? Perhaps prison itself causes increase in religiosity.
I agree with you that it's more a correlation than a causation. I don't believe that religion causes immoral behavior, but I do have the (biased) opinion that atheism is generally associated with an intellectual set that probably will see either the folly in crime, or not have to resort to it because their intelligence provides them with better avenues.

Not saying there aren't smart religious people as well, just saying that I'd suspect that atheists average higher.
 
If there were two very similar types of people with the only outstanding difference is one is religious and the other is not which of the two would you or could say might be the "better" person morally?

If god is love, why does he want you to fear him? Sounds pretty needy and petty of him.

I'll take the rational one that doesn't fear invisible sky gods.
 
If there were two very similar types of people with the only outstanding difference is one is religious and the other is not which of the two would you or could say might be the "better" person morally?

Religious and God-fearing are not the same. I have an immediate negative reaction when I hear someone call himself 'God-fearing' and I'm a religious person. If you fear God you either have the wrong God or you're an evil person.
 
If there were two very similar types of people with the only outstanding difference is one is religious and the other is not which of the two would you or could say might be the "better" person morally?

If the only difference was religious vs. athiest then I would think they were equally moral.
 
Re: If You Had Tio Chose Between A God Fearing Person vs. An Atheist ....

The two people are exactly perfectly identical in every single way possible. You like them both exactly the same. The only difference is that one believes in God. The other one does not. Now. Give your answer.

I would not think either is more or less moral.
 
Re: If You Had Tio Chose Between A God Fearing Person vs. An Atheist ....

moronic question truth be told. I need way more information than that.

I would have to know the people much more specifically if I were to judge who I thought was morally superior.

Exactly.

The hinted premise seems to be that the religious "god fearing" person would have higher moral grounds. But in reality the most corrupt, crocked people hid behind this social expectation that they "have higher moral grounds."
 
If there were two very similar types of people with the only outstanding difference is one is religious and the other is not which of the two would you or could say might be the "better" person morally?

Assuming the two people are identical in every other way, I'll trust the atheist, as what he believes is based on his actual opinion and that opinion wasn't dictated to him by a 2,000 year old book. I also find it hard to fully trust people who believe that there's an invisible sky man blessing their lives yet will torture me and my family for all of eternity.
 
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Assuming the two people are identical in every other way, I'll trust the atheist, as what he believes is based on his actual opinion and that opinion wasn't dictated to him by a 2,000 year old book. I also find it hard to fully trust people who believe that there's an invisible sky man blessing their lives yet will torture me and my family for all of eternity.

+1

The idea of having a hell as well as a heaven made by a loving god is contradictory and stupid.
 
Re: If You Had Tio Chose Between A God Fearing Person vs. An Atheist ....

Exactly.

The hinted premise seems to be that the religious "god fearing" person would have higher moral grounds. But in reality the most corrupt, crocked people hid behind this social expectation that they "have higher moral grounds."

Oliver Cromwell was a religious god-fearing man. That didn't stop him massacring Catholics in Ireland.
 
+1

The idea of having a hell as well as a heaven made by a loving god is contradictory and stupid.

If he was a real so-called loving father then he would have been jailed for child abuse long ago.
 
Re: If You Had Tio Chose Between A God Fearing Person vs. An Atheist ....

Oliver Cromwell was a religious god-fearing man. That didn't stop him massacring Catholics in Ireland.

Really? Interesting!

Got non Weaky references about this? Would like to read some?
 
Re: If You Had Tio Chose Between A God Fearing Person vs. An Atheist ....

Really? Interesting!

Got non Weaky references about this? Would like to read some?

No, I have history books. The massacre at Drogheda comes to mind. Upon landing, Oliver Cromwell proceeded to take the other port cities on Ireland's east coast, to secure an efficient supply of reinforcements and logistics from England. The first town to fall was Drogheda, about 50 km north of Dublin. Drogheda was garrisoned by regiment of 3000 English Royalist and Irish Confederate soldiers, commanded by Arthur Aston. When Cromwell's men took the town by storm, the majority of the garrison and Catholic priests were massacred on Cromwell's orders. Many civilians also died in the sack. Arthur Aston was beaten to death by the Roundheads with his own wooden leg. The massacre of the garrison in Drogheda, including some after they had surrendered and some who had sheltered in a church, was received with horror in Ireland and is remembered even today as an example of Cromwell's extreme cruelty.

If I can furbish you with any more historical facts then feel free to ask.
 
Re: If You Had Tio Chose Between A God Fearing Person vs. An Atheist ....

No, I have history books. The massacre at Drogheda comes to mind. Upon landing, Oliver Cromwell proceeded to take the other port cities on Ireland's east coast, to secure an efficient supply of reinforcements and logistics from England. The first town to fall was Drogheda, about 50 km north of Dublin. Drogheda was garrisoned by regiment of 3000 English Royalist and Irish Confederate soldiers, commanded by Arthur Aston. When Cromwell's men took the town by storm, the majority of the garrison and Catholic priests were massacred on Cromwell's orders. Many civilians also died in the sack. Arthur Aston was beaten to death by the Roundheads with his own wooden leg. The massacre of the garrison in Drogheda, including some after they had surrendered and some who had sheltered in a church, was received with horror in Ireland and is remembered even today as an example of Cromwell's extreme cruelty.

If I can furbish you with any more historical facts then feel free to ask.

Thanks zyzygy.

This sounds like an English-Irish conflict. How did English royalists and Confederates garissoned Dragheda together? Also were Aston Arthur and Cromwell English or Irish? Lastly, Cromwell was a "god fearing" religious person then right?
 
Re: If You Had Tio Chose Between A God Fearing Person vs. An Atheist ....

Thanks zyzygy.

This sounds like an English-Irish conflict. How did English royalists and Confederates garissoned Dragheda together? Also were Aston Arthur and Cromwell English or Irish? Lastly, Cromwell was a "god fearing" religious person then right?

Cromwell was English and a god-fearing Puritan.

"Oliver Cromwell hated the Irish, largely because their loyalty to the Roman Catholic Church. He also desired to exact revenge on the Irish for a massacre of English Protestants that had occurred there in 1641. Cromwell's January 1650 Declaration to the Irish Catholic Clergy provides a good indicator of the sort of mission Cromwell had in mind: "You are part of Antichrist, whose Kingdom the Scriptures so expressly speaks should be laid in blood and ere it be long, you must all of you have blood to drink; even the dregs of the cup of the fury and wrath of God, which will be poured out unto you."

http://www.sparknotes.com/biography/cromwell/section6.rhtml
 
If there were two very similar types of people with the only outstanding difference is one is religious and the other is not which of the two would you or could say might be the "better" person morally?

I would have to pick the agnostic or atheist. I want my company or organization to be ran on the rational and scientific, not the delusional and opinions of invisible friends.
 
Re: If You Had Tio Chose Between A God Fearing Person vs. An Atheist ....

Cromwell was English and a god-fearing Puritan.

"Oliver Cromwell hated the Irish, largely because their loyalty to the Roman Catholic Church. He also desired to exact revenge on the Irish for a massacre of English Protestants that had occurred there in 1641. Cromwell's January 1650 Declaration to the Irish Catholic Clergy provides a good indicator of the sort of mission Cromwell had in mind: "You are part of Antichrist, whose Kingdom the Scriptures so expressly speaks should be laid in blood and ere it be long, you must all of you have blood to drink; even the dregs of the cup of the fury and wrath of God, which will be poured out unto you."

SparkNotes: Oliver Cromwell: Crusading in Ireland and Scotland

I think the God fearing person is illustrated well with Cromwell. Or better to say:

If you want to believe a god fearing man like Cromwell
then his actions illustrate people like him very well
 
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