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What If The Big Bang Is Indeed A Mistake?

"Mistake" implies purpose and intent, and there is no reason to suspect the existence of either with regard to the nature of the universe. Is the universe perfectly conducive to human life? No. Why should it be? Is it mathematically probable that we would exist in our current form? Who knows, but long odds sometimes win and our existence to discuss it means that, in this instance, they did.
 
There are several theories on what happened and why the big bang occurred, from God to a computer hologram to grand design, etc. So one has to decide first, on what caused the BB and then they can attach the possibility of an error however slight. If something can be made it can be made incorrectly. So far from a human point of view it does not make sense unless we have a grand plan to become something other than inhabitants on a tiny spec in this one of many universes. I am not saying existence should be with out challenges but the universe is nothing more than an exploding phenomenon of energy..........why? If magnetism disappears so does every single micro-dot of matter.
 
rhinefire said:
There are several theories on what happened and why the big bang occurred, from God to a computer hologram to grand design, etc. So one has to decide first, on what caused the BB and then they can attach the possibility of an error however slight. If something can be made it can be made incorrectly. So far from a human point of view it does not make sense unless we have a grand plan to become something other than inhabitants on a tiny spec in this one of many universes. I am not saying existence should be with out challenges but the universe is nothing more than an exploding phenomenon of energy..........why? If magnetism disappears so does every single micro-dot of matter.
Click to expand...

Magnetism is not going to disappear, no need to worry.
 
rhinefire said:
As man tries to make sense of something that so far does not make sense as we understand is it possible the whole thing was done in error? What if there was a tiny flaw in this thing we call the big bang? If it does not fall within our laws of physics then why not? Examples, matter without mass and travel greater than the speed of light. Now the concept of a single universe is all but out the window. There could be thousands of universes and possibly they are all exactly the same meaning I am typing this in a thousand different locations. If man cannot or does not possess the tools to come up with the answer then who will? Maybe because something went wrong we will simply never know. It is said prior to the bang all was perfection and after all is a chaotic, random mess. If we are here as intelligence we should be able to find every answer to every question but so far we are falling short.
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Early astronomers are no longer here. That is how it works, one generation builds on the knowledge of the previous.

Your knowledge now is as rudimentary as early man's was millennia ago when he first looked at the stars.
 
What if Mount Everest is a mistake?
 
1750Texan said:
Early astronomers are no longer here. That is how it works, one generation builds on the knowledge of the previous.

Your knowledge now is as rudimentary as early man's was millennia ago when he first looked at the stars.
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"astronomers"?! Theoretical physicists and particle physicists are not limited to what your grandpa said in a drunken stupor. Who he hell is talking astronomers? Your knowledge is not knowledge at all now is it?.
 
zyzygy said:
Magnetism is not going to disappear, no need to worry.
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So enlighten us all oh great one as to your proof of your your most sought after position in the field of quantum physics.
 
zyzygy said:
The universe came into being by means of the way the universe came into being. There was no flaw, no matter how it happened.
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Show proof.
 
rhinefire said:
So enlighten us all oh great one as to your proof of your your most sought after position in the field of quantum physics.
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No, you tell me the process by which magnetism could disappear. Also why the Big Bang could be a mistake, whatever that means. Preferably with no cheap insults.
 
zyzygy said:
Plenty of proof out there, educate yourself. You could start with the cosmic background radiation, ever heard of it? The Cosmic Background Radiation
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Oh, wow! Someone said "cosmic radiation background". Man, I am humbled by such great mind! Here's another to add to your dictionary, "star". I guess I will have to educate myself since you offer nothing more than a seven year old would offer.
 
rhinefire said:
As man tries to make sense of something that so far does not make sense as we understand is it possible the whole thing was done in error? What if there was a tiny flaw in this thing we call the big bang? If it does not fall within our laws of physics then why not? Examples, matter without mass and travel greater than the speed of light. Now the concept of a single universe is all but out the window. There could be thousands of universes and possibly they are all exactly the same meaning I am typing this in a thousand different locations. If man cannot or does not possess the tools to come up with the answer then who will? Maybe because something went wrong we will simply never know. It is said prior to the bang all was perfection and after all is a chaotic, random mess. If we are here as intelligence we should be able to find every answer to every question but so far we are falling short.
Click to expand...

You have a good point. First of all there is the whole issue of the origin of the singularity and why it went pop -- a mystery we can never know. Then there is the fact that in order for the theory to work and to correspond to what we observe about the universe now it's necessary to incorporate some odd ideas:

1. Dark matter that no one has ever seen.
2. Dark energy that has never been explained.
3. Hyper-expansion of the early universe.

Ordinarily, when it was determined that in order for the expansion of the early universe to meet up with the size and expansion of the current universe then most of the expansion would have had to take place according to an unknown physics one would say that's the end of that theory.

A major problem with the Big Bang is that when we look out everywhere the universe appears to be the same, not the results of an explosion at all. It's like the universe has always been this way. So hyper-expansion was dreamed up in which in a split second the universe expanded to close to it's current size and everything in that expansion remained uniform. There is nothing in the known physical world that acts like that, no examples of it to which one can point.

Generally, when one's fudge factors are more important in an equation than the known data and you start throwing the laws of physics out the window you're probably on the wrong track. That's where we are with the Big Bang.
 
Below I offer up a slant on my original "QUESTION" about the possibility of a slight deviation or quirk in the creation of this or those universe(s) and so I have to laugh at some of the truly uninformed responses consisting of no thought whatsoever beyond Star Trek.

In the latest challenge to the Big Bang Theory, a scientist using the research on the Higgs Boson subatomic particle ( also known as “the God particle” for supposedly being the building block that created the universe) has asserted that the Big Bang Theory cannot possibly be correct. The research, which was submitted for peer review in June 2014, will make waves in the scientific community and shows again that while many in society wrongly assume science has proven the origin of the universe, it is just relying on faith they will eventually get it right.

According to reports:

The universe shouldn’t exist — at least according to a new theory.
Modeling of conditions soon after the Big Bang suggests the universe should have collapsed just microseconds after its explosive birth, the new study suggests.
“During the early universe, we expected cosmic inflation — this is a rapid expansion of the universe right after the Big Bang,” said study co-author Robert Hogan, a doctoral candidate in physics at King’s College in London. “This expansion causes lots of stuff to shake around, and if we shake it too much, we could go into this new energy space, which could cause the universe to collapse.”
Physicists draw that conclusion from a model that accounts for the properties of the newly discovered Higgs boson particle, which is thought to explain how other particles get their mass. Faint traces of gravitational waves formed at the universe’s origin also inform the conclusion. (source).



In short, based on the current cutting edge research into particle physics, the Big Bang theory cannot hold true because the universe should have collapsed in on itself right after the initial explosion (which obviously has not happened). So what is the correct explanation? Hogan suggests that science is still working on it:

“The generic expectation is that there must be some new physics that we haven’t put in our theories yet, because we haven’t been able to discover them,” Hogan said.
One leading possibility, known as the theory of supersymmetry, proposes that there are superpartner particles for all the currently known particles, and perhaps more-powerful particle accelerators could find these particles, Hogan said. (source).

In other words, Hogan does not have a substantive explanation on the origin of the universe and is forced to just speculate.
God – The Creator Of The Universe
 
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rhinefire said:
What if there was a tiny flaw in this thing we call the big bang? If it does not fall within our laws of physics then why not?
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`
There was a flaw in the Big Bang that quantum physics cannot explain. The BB should have produced equal amounts of matter and anti-matter which would have cancelled each other out. No universe, no us. But for reasons yet unknown, the BB created one more mote of matter than anti-matter and from there, the universe came into being...so to speak.
 
LowDown said:
You have a good point. First of all there is the whole issue of the origin of the singularity and why it went pop -- a mystery we can never know.
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While we may never know the initial conditions, we may be able to recreate the conditions on a smaller scale and draw some conclusions based on it.

LowDown said:
Then there is the fact that in order for the theory to work and to correspond to what we observe about the universe now it's necessary to incorporate some odd ideas:

1. Dark matter that no one has ever seen.
Click to expand...

Have you ever seen air? Even if you lived under water and never breached the surface, you could look at the world above and see the physical effects of air on the world. Same for dark matter, we can's see it, but we can see it's affects.

LowDown said:
2. Dark energy that has never been explained.
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Three possibilities, we're wrong about it's existence, we're right but can't perceive it, or someday we'll figure out how to show it exists.

LowDown said:
3. Hyper-expansion of the early universe.
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What is so odd about cosmic inflation? there are actually very good explanations for it.

LowDown said:
Ordinarily, when it was determined that in order for the expansion of the early universe to meet up with the size and expansion of the current universe then most of the expansion would have had to take place according to an unknown physics one would say that's the end of that theory.
Click to expand...

Reference?

LowDown said:
A major problem with the Big Bang is that when we look out everywhere the universe appears to be the same, not the results of an explosion at all. It's like the universe has always been this way. So hyper-expansion was dreamed up in which in a split second the universe expanded to close to it's current size and everything in that expansion remained uniform. There is nothing in the known physical world that acts like that, no examples of it to which one can point.
Click to expand...

Reference?

LowDown said:
Generally, when one's fudge factors are more important in an equation than the known data and you start throwing the laws of physics out the window you're probably on the wrong track. That's where we are with the Big Bang.
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Annnnnd Reference?
 
Paxaeon said:
`
There was a flaw in the Big Bang that quantum physics cannot explain. The BB should have produced equal amounts of matter and anti-matter which would have cancelled each other out. No universe, no us. But for reasons yet unknown, the BB created one more mote of matter than anti-matter and from there, the universe came into being...so to speak.
Click to expand...

It's not exactly unknown, there are dynamics which would predominately choose matter over anti-matter, and evidence for this such as neutrino oscillations.
 
I think I'm failing to see the philosophical question here. This seems like a science question with no real philosophical implications.
 
rhinefire said:
As man tries to make sense of something that so far does not make sense as we understand is it possible the whole thing was done in error? What if there was a tiny flaw in this thing we call the big bang? If it does not fall within our laws of physics then why not? Examples, matter without mass and travel greater than the speed of light. Now the concept of a single universe is all but out the window. There could be thousands of universes and possibly they are all exactly the same meaning I am typing this in a thousand different locations. If man cannot or does not possess the tools to come up with the answer then who will? Maybe because something went wrong we will simply never know. It is said prior to the bang all was perfection and after all is a chaotic, random mess. If we are here as intelligence we should be able to find every answer to every question but so far we are falling short.
Click to expand...

According to string theory, there is not really any big bang, but universes are created when 2 M-branes intersect.
 
danarhea said:
According to string theory, there is not really any big bang, but universes are created when 2 M-branes intersect.
Click to expand...

Key word is "theory" and there are many. Maybe we will know someday and maybe we never will.
 
rhinefire said:
As man tries to make sense of something that so far does not make sense as we understand is it possible the whole thing was done in error? What if there was a tiny flaw in this thing we call the big bang? If it does not fall within our laws of physics then why not? Examples, matter without mass and travel greater than the speed of light. Now the concept of a single universe is all but out the window. There could be thousands of universes and possibly they are all exactly the same meaning I am typing this in a thousand different locations. If man cannot or does not possess the tools to come up with the answer then who will? Maybe because something went wrong we will simply never know. It is said prior to the bang all was perfection and after all is a chaotic, random mess. If we are here as intelligence we should be able to find every answer to every question but so far we are falling short.
Click to expand...

Define mistake.

to suggest a mistake suggests there was a plan, which suggests intelligent design but not intelligent enough to make it fool proof.

That being the case, then there would likely be thousands of other universes, each of them an improvement on the other as that limited but intelligent being seeks perfetion.

However that makes US mutants
 
CrabCake said:
I think I'm failing to see the philosophical question here. This seems like a science question with no real philosophical implications.
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Does it even have scientific implications.

I would suggest it is more along the school of the humanities - psychology, psychiatry etc.
 
Ikari said:
It's not exactly unknown, there are dynamics which would predominately choose matter over anti-matter, and evidence for this such as neutrino oscillations.
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`
Of course, there are always conjectures and hypothesizes but that's all they remain.
 
Paxaeon said:
`
Of course, there are always conjectures and hypothesizes but that's all they remain.
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Unless, of course, there were some way to measure something like, let's say, neutrino osculations. Oh wait.....these is.
 
LowDown said:
A major problem with the Big Bang is that when we look out everywhere the universe appears to be the same, not the results of an explosion at all. It's like the universe has always been this way.
Click to expand...
I'm afraid this is incorrect.

The Big Bang was not an explosion. An "explosion" is the sudden release of force with a discrete point of origin. The Big Bang is the sudden expansion or inflation of spacetime itself. Think of it not like detonating C4, but more like inflating a balloon. This interpretation fits with the relative lack of variations in the CMB.


So hyper-expansion was dreamed up in which in a split second the universe expanded to close to it's current size and everything in that expansion remained uniform.
Click to expand...
This is incorrect. Our universe has continued to expand since the Big Bang. Nowhere near as much as during the inflationary period, but it's still expanding -- and the rate of expansion is apparently increasing.


Generally, when one's fudge factors are more important in an equation than the known data and you start throwing the laws of physics out the window you're probably on the wrong track. That's where we are with the Big Bang.
Click to expand...
FYI, theories about dark matter are not actually driven by cosmology. It's a result of the observations of the rotational speeds of galaxies. Basically, the outer edges of galaxies are apparently spinning much, much faster than can be explained by the matter we can observe.

Theories about dark energy are prompted by the increase in the rate of the universe's expansion.
 
rhinefire said:
In the latest challenge to the Big Bang Theory....
Click to expand...

So, hang on. Have you been trying to say all along that the theory of the Big Bang is flawed? You do realize that's a very different thing than saying "the Big Bang is a mistake." Right?

Anyway. It is entirely plausible that we will need to refine our understanding of high-energy physics in order to integrate what we've learned about the Higgs Boson. There are also lots of other potential particles we haven't found yet.

That said, there is other independent evidence to indicate that the universe is expanding, e.g. red shift, astronomical evidence and so forth. It's unlikely we will have to completely throw out the Big Bang concept.


In short, based on the current cutting edge research into particle physics, the Big Bang theory cannot hold true because the universe should have collapsed in on itself right after the initial explosion (which obviously has not happened). So what is the correct explanation? Hogan suggests that science is still working on it....
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Yes, that's how science works. If we had all the answers, we wouldn't need to continue with any research.

We should also note that Hogan is not saying that "the Big Bang didn't happen" or "the Big Bang couldn't happen." Only that if he is correct, what we now know about the Higgs will force us to revise some of our theories about the Big Bang.


In other words, Hogan does not have a substantive explanation on the origin of the universe and is forced to just speculate.
God – The Creator Of The Universe
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Errrrrrwha? Could you possibly have come up with a more fallacious inference?

We do not currently know why ice is slippery, and at the moment there's a fair amount of speculation on the topic. Does that prove that the question is unanswerable by humans? That the only explanation is the will of God? Obviously not.

We do not currently know how to reconcile quantum mechanics and gravity. Does that prove that interactions at the Planck Scale operate per the whims of God? Nope.

What if the Big Bang theory is roundly rejected based on the evidence, would that prove the existence and generative role of a deity? Nope. We'd just look at the evidence to determine how the universe was formed.
 
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