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Glorifying Suicide, don't do it.

Renae

Renae

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In light of the death of Robin Williams and the shameless fawning over his death in the media and pop culture...

I want to take a few moments to say some things that... might seem harsh. Mind you, this is not including those whom are terminally ill and in great, unquenchable pain. That's a different discussion. No, really, it is so stop.

1. I'm sorry he passed away like he did. That he suffered so terribly in his own mind.

2. I have really no respect for people that kill themselves. Those that try, fail and redeem themselves I do. Strange way at first to consider it, but it takes years.

Now that we've got that out of the way, let me explain. I wonder how many people will read further and make fools of themselves later in this? When I was in the Navy, I got to go through suicide prevention training. One of the first things they stressed, was not to "glorify" or make "a martyr or victim" of the suicidee. The pain, anguish and horror that their death leaves behind should be a somber reminder of how utterly selfish suicide is. We focus on helping the victims recover, and working to prevent COPY CATS. You off yourself, everyone fawns over your death, and then some other poor soul thinks "look how much GOOD happened here.." and then they do it.

The point. And this is IMPORTANT, is to prevent further loss of life. If you fail to prevent the first one, work damned hard to prevent other deaths. I always get riled up when someone famous commits suicide, because the words of our instructor ring true in my heart. SAVE LIVES.

I will now provide some links from people OTHER than myself to back my point up, please understand my emphasis is on saving lives. Life is precious.

"If we portray it as something that is admirable and very sympathetic, vulnerable youth may hear that as, 'Look at the attention this case is getting and everyone is feeling sorry and praising this individual,' and it can form a narrative that can be compelling," said Ann Haas, senior project specialist at the American Foundation for Suicide Prevention.
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Risk to glorifying teen suicide

However, as noted in one advice column on teen suicide, “most teens who attempt suicide report a rich fantasy around the event, a fantasy that includes being noticed after death by those who have ignored them, causing regret among those they feel have wronged them , and teaching a lesson to those who have harmed them.” (teenadvice.about.com). Of the 18 million Americans suffering from depression many certainly have people in their lives they would be happy to “teach a lesson to.” Unfortunately, the media blitz surrounding Tyler and the subsequent international demonization of Dharun and Wei may give impetus to some of those fantasies. In a nation that glorifies martyrs and villianizes their “oppressors,” suicides will increase, even among people unlikely to be venerated by any political cause.
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Suicide should never be glorified in society | Campus Times

[h=3]The Grisly Secret of Suicide[/h]There has been much speculation about reasons for suicide--many theories, many explanations. Suicide can be viewed as a cry for help, as a romantic gesture of self-renunciation, or as a spiteful act of supreme vengeance -- in a sense, a willful triumph over real or imagined enemies, and a spit in the eye of God. But all too often the grisly reality of suicidal behavior remains a much-guarded secret.
The reality is this: Suicide is not a tidy solution. The suicide inevitably leaves an ugly mess behind -- in psychological and physical terms -- for someone else to clean up. In the words of sociologist Lionel Tiger, the aftermath of suicide is a "legacy of pain."
Tiger remarks that suicide is "vicious, distorted, unbear�ably painful to family and friends, and a gross violation of the tentative truce with mortality which all humans must make." Tiger goes on to say, "Suicides . . . make a major statement about the value of life and thus call into question the very source of optimistic gregariousness which sustains us all."
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Suicide :: The Romance & The Reality, by Gayle Rosellini & Mark Worden


Recently Limbaugh was attacked for making comments about the death, his main focus was fear the coverage might lead others to the same. And that's a VERY REAL risk.
 
MrVicchio said:
In light of the death of Robin Williams and the shameless fawning over his death in the media and pop culture...

I want to take a few moments to say some things that... might seem harsh. Mind you, this is not including those whom are terminally ill and in great, unquenchable pain. That's a different discussion. No, really, it is so stop.

1. I'm sorry he passed away like he did. That he suffered so terribly in his own mind.

2. I have really no respect for people that kill themselves. Those that try, fail and redeem themselves I do. Strange way at first to consider it, but it takes years.

Now that we've got that out of the way, let me explain. I wonder how many people will read further and make fools of themselves later in this? When I was in the Navy, I got to go through suicide prevention training. One of the first things they stressed, was not to "glorify" or make "a martyr or victim" of the suicidee. The pain, anguish and horror that their death leaves behind should be a somber reminder of how utterly selfish suicide is. We focus on helping the victims recover, and working to prevent COPY CATS. You off yourself, everyone fawns over your death, and then some other poor soul thinks "look how much GOOD happened here.." and then they do it.

The point. And this is IMPORTANT, is to prevent further loss of life. If you fail to prevent the first one, work damned hard to prevent other deaths. I always get riled up when someone famous commits suicide, because the words of our instructor ring true in my heart. SAVE LIVES.

I will now provide some links from people OTHER than myself to back my point up, please understand my emphasis is on saving lives. Life is precious.


Risk to glorifying teen suicide

Suicide should never be glorified in society | Campus Times


Suicide :: The Romance & The Reality, by Gayle Rosellini & Mark Worden


Recently Limbaugh was attacked for making comments about the death, his main focus was fear the coverage might lead others to the same. And that's a VERY REAL risk.
Click to expand...

I agree. Our modern culture has a vicious tendency to overly psychologize immorality to the point of denying personal moral responsibility. This is especially so with respect to suicide.
 
MrVicchio said:
In light of the death of Robin Williams and the shameless fawning over his death in the media and pop culture...

I want to take a few moments to say some things that... might seem harsh. Mind you, this is not including those whom are terminally ill and in great, unquenchable pain. That's a different discussion. No, really, it is so stop.

1. I'm sorry he passed away like he did. That he suffered so terribly in his own mind.

2. I have really no respect for people that kill themselves. Those that try, fail and redeem themselves I do. Strange way at first to consider it, but it takes years.

Now that we've got that out of the way, let me explain. I wonder how many people will read further and make fools of themselves later in this? When I was in the Navy, I got to go through suicide prevention training. One of the first things they stressed, was not to "glorify" or make "a martyr or victim" of the suicidee. The pain, anguish and horror that their death leaves behind should be a somber reminder of how utterly selfish suicide is. We focus on helping the victims recover, and working to prevent COPY CATS. You off yourself, everyone fawns over your death, and then some other poor soul thinks "look how much GOOD happened here.." and then they do it.

The point. And this is IMPORTANT, is to prevent further loss of life. If you fail to prevent the first one, work damned hard to prevent other deaths. I always get riled up when someone famous commits suicide, because the words of our instructor ring true in my heart. SAVE LIVES.

I will now provide some links from people OTHER than myself to back my point up, please understand my emphasis is on saving lives. Life is precious.


Risk to glorifying teen suicide

Suicide should never be glorified in society | Campus Times


Suicide :: The Romance & The Reality, by Gayle Rosellini & Mark Worden


Recently Limbaugh was attacked for making comments about the death, his main focus was fear the coverage might lead others to the same. And that's a VERY REAL risk.
Click to expand...

As far as I am concerned I could care less if someone wishes to off themselves. I say go ahead, just be considerate to others the mess that is made when someone bites it. Death is messy. If one indulges in it they should at least be considerate of others that have to clean up the mess.
 
Everyone has the right to choose their own destiny...even death. Take your nose out of other people's business.
 
There's a difference between glorifying suicide, which I agree shouldn't be done, and having sane rational discussions regarding suicide and depression. I see the latter being done primarily regarding Williams' death.

If you cannot or do not see a difference then I would suggest that you are too close-minded to weigh in on the subject with any validity.
 
radcen said:
If you cannot or do not see a difference then I would suggest that you are too close-minded to weigh in on the subject with any validity.
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Ad hominem.
 
Paleocon said:
I agree. Our modern culture has a vicious tendency to overly psychologize immorality to the point of denying personal moral responsibility. This is especially so with respect to suicide.
Click to expand...

Please, explain this bit here:

psychologize immorality to the point of denying personal moral responsibility. This is especially so with respect to suicide.
Click to expand...


What exactly do you mean by this?
 
Dragonfly said:
Please, explain this bit here:




What exactly do you mean by this?
Click to expand...

Our modern culture considers anyone who attempts suicide to be a mental case, rather than immoral, regardless of the situation.

The tendency to act as if predisposition to certain traits automatically means one will engage in such is another thing.
 
I have not seen any one glorify suicide in the Williams death. I have seen people who have some sympathy for what he went through and the issues he had. Sympathy and glorifying are two entirely different things. What happened to Williams was a tragedy, and in part because it was probably preventable. That does not stop me from having some understanding for that state of mind, and some understanding of just how difficult depression is to deal with.
 
Paleocon said:
The tendency to act as if predisposition to certain traits automatically means one will engage in such is another thing.
Click to expand...

And to even suggest that personal responsibility should come into play is heresy among the ever growing "do whatever you want and blame something to escape the consequences" cult
 
1. I don't find any glory in suicide in and of itself and thus, I don't glorify it. I can, however, understand how people do find glory in suicide and, as a result, I don't feel compelled to argue that people "shouldn't" glorify it.

2. I don't think glorifying suicide alone is the reason some depressed people develop fantasies around suicide. Instead, I believe that depressed individuals who find solace is the social glorification of suicide do so because they were unable to find solace elsewhere first - because there are deficits in the availability and attractiveness of other options. In fact, the inability to find peace in other places before turning to such glorification may be the result of a variety of deficits - either in medical resources or personal means. However, I suspect that the specific stigma surrounding both mental illness and any sort of emotional pain contributes greatly to the attractiveness of suicidal glory as a place of comfort.

With that in mind, I do not believe that - for those who want to avoid deaths by suicide - the response to this attractiveness should be to demand that others stop glorifying suicide, but to INSTEAD make the other options more attractive to those in pain. For instance, we ought to make the option of confiding in other people more attractive by stopping the denigration of those who commit suicide in addition to the denigration of emotional or mental anguish, in general. While such denigration may come from an honest place, it also comes from an unkind place which, of course, turns depressed people off from speaking to others. Indeed, it is easy to understand why someone in the midst of darkness might find light in the social glorification of suicide when that glory is one place people seem to find compassion for their suffering.

3. Expanding on my last point, I would like to say directly to those who self-righteously declare suicide "selfish" and who pontificate about the immorality of suicide that you directly contribute to the stigma of mental illness and emotional anguish with your condemnations. Moreover, as a result of your contribution to that stigma, you contribute the fear people have of seeking help from others. Therefore, if - as you types often say you do - you want to stop people from committing suicide, you should find humility and refrain from such reckless condemnation.
 
Depression can be devastating. When things that other people brush off become an interminable weight, and a person sees no other way out, it can lead to suicide.

Suicide is not immoral. It is the culmination of mental agony, as real as any physical pain.
 
ThePlayDrive said:
3. Expanding on my last point, I would like to say directly to those who self-righteously declare suicide "selfish" and who pontificate about the immorality of suicide that you directly contribute to the stigma of mental illness and emotional anguish with your condemnations. Moreover, as a result of your contribution to that stigma, you contribute the fear people have of seeking help from others. Therefore, if - as you types often say you do - you want to stop people from committing suicide, you should find humility and refrain from such reckless condemnation.
Click to expand...

Condemnation of suicide should make people not want to do it and seek help for it. What causing suicides is telling them they have depression and its not their fault.We are coddling their weak mind, making it even more susceptible to suicidal thoughts. We have given out participation trophies so long that all of society thinks they are special, no one has ever told them they the majority of them are just average and when they realization finally hits they don't have the mental strength to handle it because no one along the way had the integrity to tell them the hard truth.
 
As a person who has, and continues to suffer from depression, I have many times been almost there. I know what can drive a person to do it.

Saying that, and glorifying it is a different thing altogether. I have seen people speak glowingly of Williams' career, but not of the manner of his death. I have heard it called terrible, and I've heard some understanding from those who have been there. But not "Oh, isn't it great how he killed himself!"

If anybody wants to show me that, and how it's been pervasive I'm open to seeing it.
 
Crovax said:
Condemnation of suicide should make people not want to do it and seek help for it. What causing suicides is telling them they have depression and its not their fault.We are coddling their weak mind, making it even more susceptible to suicidal thoughts. We have given out participation trophies so long that all of society thinks they are special, no one has ever told them they the majority of them are just average and when they realization finally hits they don't have the mental strength to handle it because no one along the way had the integrity to tell them the hard truth.
Click to expand...

They have depression, and it's not their fault that they have it. Granted, I expected someone to come out and blame it on Liberals (because well, anything bad comes from there). It's unfortunate that you came along and confirmed my lack of faith in humanity.

It's not the realization that they're "not special" or that people are "weak." That you say that shows that you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.
 
"I don't suffer from it, ergo it doesn't exist". Seriously that has to be the epitome of willful ignorance. That's essentially what people are saying when they say depression is nothing more than 'weak mindedness'.
 
rocket88 said:
They have depression, and it's not their fault that they have it. Granted, I expected someone to come out and blame it on Liberals (because well, anything bad comes from there). It's unfortunate that you came along and confirmed my lack of faith in humanity.

It's not the realization that they're "not special" or that people are "weak." That you say that shows that you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.
Click to expand...

Where exactly did I blame liberals, I blamed all of society because enough people won't stand up for personal responsibility. It is much harder to take responsibility for your actions than it is to shift it onto a magical uncontrollable demon. Things like ADD and depression have become mental crutches and really detract from the small % who do actually have those conditions.
 
I don't see any indication of anyone glorifying William's suicide.

Expressing sympathy and shock is not the same as glorification.

Limbaugh's response was utterly rude and classless... as is typical of him. He used the unfortunate suicide of a popular actor as yet another excuse to bash left-wingers. Shame on him.
 
Crovax said:
And to even suggest that personal responsibility should come into play is heresy among the ever growing "do whatever you want and blame something to escape the consequences" cult
Click to expand...

Yep. It's ironic that the same people who tend to call themselves humanists deny free will.

ThePlayDrive said:
1. I don't find any glory in suicide in and of itself and thus, I don't glorify it. I can, however, understand how people do find glory in suicide and, as a result, I don't feel compelled to argue that people "shouldn't" glorify it.

2. I don't think glorifying suicide alone is the reason some depressed people develop fantasies around suicide. Instead, I believe that depressed individuals who find solace is the social glorification of suicide do so because they were unable to find solace elsewhere first - because there are deficits in the availability and attractiveness of other options. In fact, the inability to find peace in other places before turning to such glorification may be the result of a variety of deficits - either in medical resources or personal means. However, I suspect that the specific stigma surrounding both mental illness and any sort of emotional pain contributes greatly to the attractiveness of suicidal glory as a place of comfort.

With that in mind, I do not believe that - for those who want to avoid deaths by suicide - the response to this attractiveness should be to demand that others stop glorifying suicide, but to INSTEAD make the other options more attractive to those in pain. For instance, we ought to make the option of confiding in other people more attractive by stopping the denigration of those who commit suicide in addition to the denigration of emotional or mental anguish, in general. While such denigration may come from an honest place, it also comes from an unkind place which, of course, turns depressed people off from speaking to others. Indeed, it is easy to understand why someone in the midst of darkness might find light in the social glorification of suicide when that glory is one place people seem to find compassion for their suffering.

3. Expanding on my last point, I would like to say directly to those who self-righteously declare suicide "selfish" and who pontificate about the immorality of suicide that you directly contribute to the stigma of mental illness and emotional anguish with your condemnations. Moreover, as a result of your contribution to that stigma, you contribute the fear people have of seeking help from others. Therefore, if - as you types often say you do - you want to stop people from committing suicide, you should find humility and refrain from such reckless condemnation.
Click to expand...

Yep, let's solve the problem by making it worse. In the true spirit of progressivism.
 
Depression is a disease. Pretending it isn't is unhelpful. Telling someone who is depressed to "Get over it" doesn't help.

The OP took a military course on Suicide prevention. Apparently that course is outdated, or woefully wrong. In order to help someone, you have to be sympathetic in able to understand. Most people don't understand. Sympathy is not equal to glorifying.
 
Crovax said:
Condemnation of suicide should make people not want to do it and seek help for it. What causing suicides is telling them they have depression and its not their fault.We are coddling their weak mind, making it even more susceptible to suicidal thoughts. We have given out participation trophies so long that all of society thinks they are special, no one has ever told them they the majority of them are just average and when they realization finally hits they don't have the mental strength to handle it because no one along the way had the integrity to tell them the hard truth.
Click to expand...
When you condemn suicide, what it does primarily is make people who are already thinking about it not want to talk about it with others. As a result, they stay inside their own minds out of a fear of rejection. This increases their risk of turning to suicide.
 
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Redress said:
What happened to Williams was a tragedy, and in part because it was probably preventable.
Click to expand...

Yes, he could have prevented it by not doing it.

Crovax said:
Where exactly did I blame liberals, I blamed all of society because enough people won't stand up for personal responsibility. It is much harder to take responsibility for your actions than it is to shift it onto a magical uncontrollable demon. Things like ADD and depression have become mental crutches and really detract from the small % who do actually have those conditions.
Click to expand...

A magical demon that can only be controlled by feeding into a multi-billion dollar industry of psychotropic drug sales. Don't forget the money.
 
Paleocon said:
Yep, let's solve the problem by making it worse. In the true spirit of progressivism.
Click to expand...
I fail to see how kindness - which is what I'm ultimately arguing for - could make the problem of suicide worse.
 
Thorgasm said:
Depression is a disease. Pretending it isn't is unhelpful. Telling someone who is depressed to "Get over it" doesn't help.

The OP took a military course on Suicide prevention. Apparently that course is outdated, or woefully wrong. In order to help someone, you have to be sympathetic in able to understand. Most people don't understand. Sympathy is not equal to glorifying.
Click to expand...

Depression is a disease. Suicide is an act.

ThePlayDrive said:
When you condemn suicide, what it does primarily is make people who are already thinking about not want to talk about it with others. As a result, they stay inside their own minds out of the fear of rejection. This increases their risk of turning to suicide.
Click to expand...

Funny how suicide rates were lower back when people considered it a moral issue.
 
Thorgasm said:
Depression is a disease. Pretending it isn't is unhelpful. Telling someone who is depressed to "Get over it" doesn't help.

The OP took a military course on Suicide prevention. Apparently that course is outdated, or woefully wrong. In order to help someone, you have to be sympathetic in able to understand. Most people don't understand. Sympathy is not equal to glorifying.
Click to expand...

If you're talking about clinical depression, sympathy will get you nowhere and most likely it's only expressed to make your feel better about not being able to make the other person feel better. The only things that will help are exercise, good diet and pharmaceuticals along with a regime of PROFESSIONAL counseling. Your fawning sympathy is likely to just make things worse, because, even if you've experienced it, there's no way you're going to understand their flavor of depression.
 
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