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Statism is a religion

AlbqOwl said:
Certainly. And I can identify a lot of people who embrace statism. Start with the President and his cabinet, staff, and all of his czars. Add the large majority of those with a D after their name in the Senate and House of Representatives or who have previously served. On a more personal level, look for those here at DP who identify themselves as 'liberal'. They aren't the only ones, but a large percentage of them preach statism with their posts.
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He is a Christian, sorry. This proves the whole thing is made-up and riciculous. The people you list do not follow statism as a religion.

Since you have displayed your comments to be nothing but a joke, I'm done with you. Feel free to continue this nonsense. I will have no part in children's games such as this joke of a thread.
 
TheNextEra said:
Than specifically say who these statists are? Give a person as an example. You can't, because it's made up.
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Again, there is no organized set of beliefs. Which state? Which country, which region? they don't agree so they aren't organized. You can't even give a specific example of these mythical statists.[/QUOTE]

First thing, relax, man. I'm not criticizing unconditional devotion to the government that is akin to the way religious people have unconditional devotion to their preferred religion. I don't care that they're like that until they try to convert me, same with Christianity, Catholicism, Islam, Buddhism and Hinduism. But Statism is a real thing. You want specific examples, okay: two of my Drill Instructors, Bull & Hunter. They've stayed in the Corps. Hunter is a Gunnery Sergeant who is an Instructor at Sergeants Course & Bull is a First Sergeant who is vying to be a Sergeant Major in a combat MOS. These guys were born to be Marines. They cannot get enough of it & would do anything if given an order. Why? Because they have unconditional devotion to the Corps. ergo with the United States ergo with the government ergo with the POTUS. It happens, it is legitimate and it's part of being human. Acceptance of something real is a whole lot better than denying a real thing.
 
Gardener said:
If there is anything close to a religion in this thread, I would say it is exemplified more by the number of kids whose slavish devotion to Lewrockwell dot com has resulted in them parroting all the hackneyed buzz phrases and themes.
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Wow... what an entirely clever & original thought process displayed here.
 
Jango said:
First thing, relax, man. I'm not criticizing unconditional devotion to the government that is akin to the way religious people have unconditional devotion to their preferred religion. I don't care that they're like that until they try to convert me, same with Christianity, Catholicism, Islam, Buddhism and Hinduism. But Statism is a real thing. You want specific examples, okay: two of my Drill Instructors, Bull & Hunter. They've stayed in the Corps. Hunter is a Gunnery Sergeant who is an Instructor at Sergeants Course & Bull is a First Sergeant who is vying to be a Sergeant Major in a combat MOS. These guys were born to be Marines. They cannot get enough of it & would do anything if given an order. Why? Because they have unconditional devotion to the Corps. ergo with the United States ergo with the government ergo with the POTUS. It happens, it is legitimate and it's part of being human. Acceptance of something real is a whole lot better than denying a real thing.
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Sorry but your examples are incorrect. The Marines creed was in essence God, country, marines.
 
Hitler and Stalin and probably Mao were the ultimate Statists. They made it a religion and recognized no higher authority than themselves, politically and morally. Obama is a statist but thank god, an incompetent one.

The definition of Statism is vague. Like most of the other - ism's its a spectrum. Like liberals, you can usually spot a statist by who yells loudest about being called one. Like Dukakis in a tank a statist will usually deny he's a statist. You see, he only believes in *good* government.
 
TheDemSocialist said:
So now statism is just if you trust your government?
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Do you agree that there is a logical amount of trust to put into something which shows you nothing, says little & says 'trust me'. Some people willingly put Blind Faith into things. Like Christianity or Islam. The military, intelligence or law enforcement agencies. Celebrities we've seen on T.V. & in movies because we've "seen" them enough to think we 'know' them. Statism just has fan boys that unconditionally support the authority of the government. You should recognize this because you post quite a bit in the Middle East section. Endlessly amount of support & denial of real things occurs with these sorts, of which, we see a lot of in many different directions here.
 
TheNextEra said:
He is a Christian, sorry. This proves the whole thing is made-up and riciculous. The people you list do not follow statism as a religion.

Since you have displayed your comments to be nothing but a joke, I'm done with you. Feel free to continue this nonsense. I will have no part in children's games such as this joke of a thread.
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Fine. Nobody asked or required you to post in this 'joke of a thread' but I find it an interesting and worthwhile topic. And I declare myself the winner of this debate because when you refuse to answer questions put to you and instead go to the non sequitur and ad hominem stance, you've lost whether or not the other person is right.
 
Jango said:
Wow... what an entirely clever & original thought process displayed here.
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It doesn't need to be either for it to be true: the OP is making a set of beliefs about governance into a religion...by that measure can't any set of beliefs about governance be a religion, if believed fervently enough?
 
Jango said:
Do you agree that there is a logical amount of trust to put into something which shows you nothing, says little & says 'trust me'. Some people willingly put Blind Faith into things. Like Christianity or Islam. The military, intelligence or law enforcement agencies. Celebrities we've seen on T.V. & in movies because we've "seen" them enough to think we 'know' them. Statism just has fan boys that unconditionally support the authority of the government. You should recognize this because you post quite a bit in the Middle East section. Endlessly amount of support & denial of real things occurs with these sorts, of which, we see a lot of in many different directions here.
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I dont view statism as a belief. My whole point it what is "statism"? How much "state" is required for someone to be a "statist"? Libetarians like to throw the term around a lot.
 
TheNextEra said:
Sorry but your examples are incorrect. The Marines creed was in essence God, country, marines.
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No one ever mentioned religion other than to get in our groups, if we wanted to, before hitting the rack. After boot, we were introduced to Chaplins. We were never coerced into going and talking to them or attending Church regularly. The devotion I witnessed by being a part of it was to "my fellow Marine, those appointed above me, my country, my family." The two DI I mentioned are the kind of guys who put "the job" ahead of family. The needs of the Corps. who follow orders by those appointed higher up are paramount to the needs of a bored, lonely & horny wife or kids. It happens, man.
 
stat·ism [stey-tiz-uhm] noun

1. non-libertarian.
 
TobyOne said:
Hitler and Stalin and probably Mao were the ultimate Statists. They made it a religion and recognized no higher authority than themselves, politically and morally. Obama is a statist but thank god, an incompetent one.

The definition of Statism is vague. Like most of the other - ism's its a spectrum. Like liberals, you can usually spot a statist by who yells loudest about being called one. Like Dukakis in a tank a statist will usually deny he's a statist. You see, he only believes in *good* government.
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Hitler and Stalin I don't see as statists. They were dictators which is a different thing. They trusted nobody--certainly not the governments they headed--which is why heads would roll--sometimes literally--at the slightest indication that somebody might disagree with them or challenge them. They put their whole faith into themselves and as such made themselves a kind of god.

Now some statists might admire or adore or even worship the President, but then so might a non-statist. Such is admiration of a person and does not necessarily tie one's belief system to a personality.

But the true statist puts his or her whole confidence to run things fix things, make things happen, prevent things from happening, and provide what the people need in the central government itself. They do not trust their fellow man to do that better or do it at all and usually don't believe their local or state governments are up to the task either. And usually encapsulated within that confidence is the belief that the central government can and would do all that is necessary and good if there were not some in government who oppose the statists and/or all of us would become good statists and approve of and support the cause.
 
OldWorldOrder said:
It doesn't need to be either for it to be true: the OP is making a set of beliefs about governance into a religion...by that measure can't any set of beliefs about governance be a religion, if believed fervently enough?
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I never said they couldn't, did I. So long as they fall under the metric, either for or against, with other variations too, of unrelenting devotion/support/belief. Nothing can change their mind. That's religious conviction, which is something you've pointed out about particular people here & their unwavering beliefs. The analogy is fitting.
 
Jango said:
I never said they couldn't, did I. So long as they fall under the metric, either for or against, with other variations too, of unrelenting devotion/support/belief. Nothing can change their mind. That's religious conviction, which is something you've pointed out about particular people here & their unwavering beliefs. The analogy is fitting.
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So then what was wrong with his statement? You just demand a higher level of wit?
 
TheDemSocialist said:
I dont view statism as a belief. My whole point it what is "statism"? How much "state" is required for someone to be a "statist"? Libetarians like to throw the term around a lot.
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That's fine that you view it that way, but that doesn't change the reality of the situation: it is not determined by the amount of what's being worshipped but instead by how something is being worshipped. It is a belief system. And my being a libertarian has little to do with this so much as it has to do with humanism. It is just a fact of life, man.
 
Jango said:
I never said they couldn't, did I. So long as they fall under the metric, either for or against, with other variations too, of unrelenting devotion/support/belief. Nothing can change their mind. That's religious conviction, which is something you've pointed out about particular people here & their unwavering beliefs. The analogy is fitting.
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Exactly. "Religion" does not have to involve a deity or deities. Buddhism and some sects of Taoism, for instance, do not believe in a God or gods but are recognized as bonafide religions. And at least a couple of lower courts have declared "Atheism" a religion and therefore Atheists are entitled to equal protection under the law. While government would not fit the government's definition of religion for the purpose of tax exemptions or deductions, the practice of statism does require a deeply held belief and a great deal of faith that the central government is the proper and righteous manager of human affairs--politically, economically, socially, and as benefactor, rescuer, arbiter, and protector for all basic human needs. It can command every bit as much passionate loyalty and dependence as any recognized religion.
 
OldWorldOrder said:
So then what was wrong with his statement? You just demand a higher level of wit?
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It's boilerplate, man. It's one extreme attacking another without recognizing that the unextreme version of the same story typically combines truths from both sides & arrives at the truth much quicker. Case in point: listening to Alex Jones' extreme views on things is just as misleading as when the White House Press Secretary, or any professional spokesperson is doing this: :spin: I.e. "No, everything is all right and is steadily improving." Either version is BS.
 
AlbqOwl said:
Exactly. "Religion" does not have to involve a deity or deities. Buddhism and some sects of Taoism, for instance, do not believe in a God or gods but are recognized as bonafide religions. And at least a couple of lower courts have declared "Atheism" a religion and therefore Atheists are entitled to equal protection under the law. While government would not fit the government's definition of religion for the purpose of tax exemptions or deductions, the practice of statism does require a deeply held belief and a great deal of faith that the central government is the proper and righteous manager of human affairs--politically, economically, socially, and as benefactor, rescuer, arbiter, and protector for all basic human needs. It can command ever much passionate loyalty and dependence as any religion.
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Thank you :)
 
Jango said:
Wow... what an entirely clever & original thought process displayed here.
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Looks like you escaped the conspiracy section again, I see.
 
AlbqOwl said:
Exactly. "Religion" does not have to involve a deity or deities...It can command every bit as much passionate loyalty and dependence as any recognized religion.
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How is this different from any other strong political belief?
 
Statism is a perjorative term made up by disillusioned conservatives losing their control.
 
nic11 said:
Statism is a perjorative term made up by disillusioned conservatives losing their control.
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No, not really. Statism is an old word. Use Google's Ngram Viewer & discovery for yourself.
 
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