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Since The Word "God" Is Under Fire By the Feds Why Conscientious Objectors Allowed?

rhinefire

rhinefire

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If God is not permitted in institutions at many levels of government how can the military imprison a soldier for believing in something the government does not acknowledge? People get sent home for wearing religious clothing so how can a devout religious person be forced to wear a government uniform? Either God is recognized or it is not by the laws of a government.
 
Re: Since The Word "God" Is Under Fire By the Feds Why Conscientious Objectors Allowe

rhinefire said:
If God is not permitted in institutions at many levels of government how can the military imprison a soldier for believing in something the government does not acknowledge? People get sent home for wearing religious clothing so how can a devout religious person be forced to wear a government uniform? Either God is recognized or it is not by the laws of a government.
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Your post makes no sense. First of all NOONE is imprisoned for simply believing something the government doesn't acknowledge.

Secondly, what does God have to do with wearing a government uniform?
 
Re: Since The Word "God" Is Under Fire By the Feds Why Conscientious Objectors Allowe

rhinefire said:
If God is not permitted in institutions at many levels of government how can the military imprison a soldier for believing in something the government does not acknowledge? People get sent home for wearing religious clothing so how can a devout religious person be forced to wear a government uniform? Either God is recognized or it is not by the laws of a government.
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Though I believe that the government is forbidden to dictate clothing codes of the religious like the do in France or Germany, I do not think that applies to religious people that go to battle or into the police. Or do you think we should allow women to risk their and their comrades lives, because they want to wear burqas? They just cannot join.
 
Re: Since The Word "God" Is Under Fire By the Feds Why Conscientious Objectors Allowe

Where is the word "God" under fire by the Feds?
 
Re: Since The Word "God" Is Under Fire By the Feds Why Conscientious Objectors Allowe

joG said:
Though I believe that the government is forbidden to dictate clothing codes of the religious like the do in France or Germany,
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It's not dictating anything. It's saying no walking around in public with the equivalent of ski masks.
 
Re: Since The Word "God" Is Under Fire By the Feds Why Conscientious Objectors Allowe

ecofarm said:
It's not dictating anything. It's saying no walking around in public with the equivalent of ski masks.
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Well no. In Germany government and court are saying that female teachers cannot teach, if they wear muslim headware. In France there has been nobody punished for wearing motorcycle helmets not ski masks that I know of. But we will see by the end of Summer for helmets and in the Winter for ski masks.
 
Re: Since The Word "God" Is Under Fire By the Feds Why Conscientious Objectors Allowe

joG said:
Well no. In Germany government and court are saying that female teachers cannot teach, if they wear muslim headware. In France there has been nobody punished for wearing motorcycle helmets not ski masks that I know of. But we will see by the end of Summer for helmets and in the Winter for ski masks.
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You really do not understand that ski masks are not appropriate for public business (outside of a ski lodge, of course, duh)?

Regarding public teachers, they can leave their mumbo jumbo at the door. If they are not capable of that, they are welcome to stay home or seek private employment.
 
Re: Since The Word "God" Is Under Fire By the Feds Why Conscientious Objectors Allowe

ecofarm said:
You really do not understand that ski masks are not appropriate for public business (outside of a ski lodge, of course, duh).

Regarding public teachers, they can leave their mumbo jumbo at the door. If they are not capable of that, they are welcome to stay home or seek private employment.
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On a Celsius -20 degree day I would say that they were even in Paris? And if the girl thinks it necessary to wear a burqa for her religion? The freedom of religious expression should be taboo to government intervention. How would it be, if she were just ashamed of her appearance? Would that be enough reason? Say the face was mutilated. Or what would you say, if someone hides his face behind a wild beard, long hair draping down, big glasses and a hat on top? Can't see the features then either. Do you ask the Jew to have a hair cut?

And as to the teachers? Well, if they can wear a priest's collar or a Jewish cap? I have seen teachers with crosses visible at the neck line or on the t-shirt. I haven't ever heard of a nun being sent home.
 
Re: Since The Word "God" Is Under Fire By the Feds Why Conscientious Objectors Allowe

joG said:
On a Celsius -20 degree day I would say that they were even in Paris? And if the girl thinks it necessary to wear a burqa for her religion? The freedom of religious expression should be taboo to government intervention. How would it be, if she were just ashamed of her appearance? Would that be enough reason? Say the face was mutilated. Or what would you say, if someone hides his face behind a wild beard, long hair draping down, big glasses and a hat on top? Can't see the features then either. Do you ask the Jew to have a hair cut?
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What part of "no ski masks in public" (except at ski lodges, duh) do you not understand?

And as to the teachers? Well, if they can wear a priest's collar or a Jewish cap? I have seen teachers with crosses visible at the neck line or on the t-shirt. I haven't ever heard of a nun being sent home.
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Your anecdotes and nonsense (nuns at public schools) are absurd. You're just flailing wildly in attempt to paint religious people as victims. As if you would support satanists wearing their garb and adornments as authority figures in public school - be honest.
 
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Re: Since The Word "God" Is Under Fire By the Feds Why Conscientious Objectors Allowe

ecofarm said:
Your anecdotes and nonsense (nuns at public schools) are absurd. You're just flailing wildly in attempt to paint religious people as victims. As if you would support satanists wearing their garb and adornments as authority figures in public school - be honest.
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A lot of the girls and guys that founded this country left their old homes because they didn't like being made religious victims by the government. And I think they were right to put it in the Constitution that that should not be allowed. That strengthens a country like any free expression tends to.


ecofarm said:
What part of "no ski masks in public" (except at ski lodges, duh) do you not understand?
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I just couldn't believe you were serious.
 
Re: Since The Word "God" Is Under Fire By the Feds Why Conscientious Objectors Allowe

TheNextEra said:
Your post makes no sense. First of all NOONE is imprisoned for simply believing something the government doesn't acknowledge.

Secondly, what does God have to do with wearing a government uniform?
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Your response is infantile and so you are not old enough to post.
 
Re: Since The Word "God" Is Under Fire By the Feds Why Conscientious Objectors Allowe

rhinefire said:
Your response is infantile and so you are not old enough to post.
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Ah I see you cannot refute ANYTHING I said and have since resorted to personal attacks instead.
 
Re: Since The Word "God" Is Under Fire By the Feds Why Conscientious Objectors Allowe

joG said:
A lot of the girls and guys that founded this country left their old homes because they didn't like being made religious victims by the government.
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There are no victims in the enforcement of secular public services. Nor are there victims in the rule 'no ski masks in public'.

Of course, some religious people will twist anything to paint themselves as victims. For some reason, being a victim is very important to them.
 
Re: Since The Word "God" Is Under Fire By the Feds Why Conscientious Objectors Allowe

ecofarm said:
There are no victims in the enforcement of secular public services. Nor are there victims in the rule 'no ski masks in public'.

Of course, some religious people will twist anything to paint themselves as victims. For some reason, being a victim is very important to them.
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Of course there are. If you are prevented from practicing your cultural heritage or what you understand are religious requirements, you are a victim. The same is true at minus 20 degrees, if you cannot shield your face.

But there are a lot of people that do not believe in freedom and they are the enemy of free society and democracy.
 
Re: Since The Word "God" Is Under Fire By the Feds Why Conscientious Objectors Allowe

joG said:
Of course there are. If you are prevented from practicing your cultural heritage or what you understand are religious requirements, you are a victim.
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In PUBLIC employment. If your religion is more important than a GOVERNMENT job, then don't take the ****ing job. No one is forcing anyone to work on the public dime.

The same is true at minus 20 degrees, if you cannot shield your face.
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There is no such law.

But there are a lot of people that do not believe in freedom and they are the enemy of free society and democracy.
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One does not have the freedom to impose their religious beliefs upon others while in the employment of the government.


You lack a basic understanding of the separation of church and state.
 
Re: Since The Word "God" Is Under Fire By the Feds Why Conscientious Objectors Allowe

ecofarm said:
In PUBLIC employment. If your religion is more important than a GOVERNMENT job, then don't take the ****ing job. No one is forcing anyone to work on the public dime.
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The decision in Germany was made after the fact. The girl had gone to school and university to take a job that did not forbid wearing religious symbols. As a matter of fact, I have since seen teachers wearing crosses and nun's wear. I have seen crosses hanging in public schools in Bavaria. My take of this is that the law is bad to start with, the court decided to take an undemocratic path and the decision is selectively applied.

ecofarm said:
There is no such law.
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You yourself were the one to state it.

ecofarm said:
One does not have the freedom to impose their religious beliefs upon others while in the employment of the government.
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Of course not. But it is not "imposing their religious beliefs upon others" to express your own beliefs. If the government were to employ nuns in order convert the children that would be a totally different thing. But to take a girl's job away from her for expressing her beliefs is quite revolting.
 
Re: Since The Word "God" Is Under Fire By the Feds Why Conscientious Objectors Allowe

Haha. He REFUSES to understand simple logic and reason. Oh well, it's not uncommon for people to insist on being victims even if their position makes no sense at all. It's the end goal that's important, and that's claiming victimhood.
 
Re: Since The Word "God" Is Under Fire By the Feds Why Conscientious Objectors Allowe

rhinefire said:
If God is not permitted in institutions at many levels of government how can the military imprison a soldier for believing in something the government does not acknowledge? People get sent home for wearing religious clothing so how can a devout religious person be forced to wear a government uniform? Either God is recognized or it is not by the laws of a government.
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What are you talking about? From what I know, you can still file for conscientious objector discharge or that can be a reason to not be allowed entry. The key here is, you cannot file for this right before deployment and figure that this will get you out of that deployment. Such a thing will take time. And if it was an issue, then you should have brought it up earlier. Most soldiers are not willing to communicate such things with their commands, but then expect to get out of a deployment because they have simply filed for such a discharge from the service. Also, some expect not to be discharged at all, but rather to simply be able to get out of going into battlefields or to combat zones because of this but still retaining all their benefits.

Conscientious Objection: Fact Sheet · GI Rights Hotline: Military Discharges and Military Counseling
 
Re: Since The Word "God" Is Under Fire By the Feds Why Conscientious Objectors Allowe

rhinefire said:
If God is not permitted in institutions at many levels of government how can the military imprison a soldier for believing in something the government does not acknowledge? People get sent home for wearing religious clothing so how can a devout religious person be forced to wear a government uniform? Either God is recognized or it is not by the laws of a government.
Click to expand...

This post really doesn't make any sense. People have asked for it, but you've given no examples of this happening whatsoever. If you join the military, you are signing a voluntary contract to wear their uniforms, obey their laws, and deploy where they tell you to deploy. If you don't like it, don't join the military, you are not a victim.
 
Re: Since The Word "God" Is Under Fire By the Feds Why Conscientious Objectors Allowe

joG said:
Of course there are. If you are prevented from practicing your cultural heritage or what you understand are religious requirements, you are a victim. The same is true at minus 20 degrees, if you cannot shield your face.

But there are a lot of people that do not believe in freedom and they are the enemy of free society and democracy.
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Where do you draw the line on religious expression in the classroom? You have a line somewhere, everyone does.

A Christian wearing a cross around her neck? Is that okay?
A Muslim wearing a burqa?
A Jewish man wearing a yarmulke?

Now, let's go further....

Would you support a Christian wearing a t-shirt that says "Muslims are going to burn in hell?"
What of a Muslims wearing a shirt that says "Allah hu akbar?"
Or, what of a Jew wearing a shirt that says "Jesus is NOT the Messiah?"

Would those be acceptable to you as well, as a part of their free exercise of religion in a public school?


EDIT: Would you be okay with a devout Satanist wearing this while teaching your elementary-aged children?

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Re: Since The Word "God" Is Under Fire By the Feds Why Conscientious Objectors Allowe

Koros said:
Where do you draw the line on religious expression in the classroom? You have a line somewhere, everyone does.

A Christian wearing a cross around her neck? Is that okay?
A Muslim wearing a burqa?
A Jewish man wearing a yarmulke?

Now, let's go further....

Would you support a Christian wearing a t-shirt that says "Muslims are going to burn in hell?"
What of a Muslims wearing a shirt that says "Allah hu akbar?"
Or, what of a Jew wearing a shirt that says "Jesus is NOT the Messiah?"

Would those be acceptable to you as well, as a part of their free exercise of religion in a public school?


EDIT: Would you be okay with a devout Satanist wearing this while teaching your elementary-aged children?

View attachment 67170668
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I would have nothing against any of the above that does not directly insult others and my suspicion is that you know the difference.
 
Re: Since The Word "God" Is Under Fire By the Feds Why Conscientious Objectors Allowe

RabidAlpaca said:
This post really doesn't make any sense. People have asked for it, but you've given no examples of this happening whatsoever. If you join the military, you are signing a voluntary contract to wear their uniforms, obey their laws, and deploy where they tell you to deploy. If you don't like it, don't join the military, you are not a victim.
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So priests and doctors are required to kill?
 
Re: Since The Word "God" Is Under Fire By the Feds Why Conscientious Objectors Allowe

rhinefire said:
So priests and doctors are required to kill?
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If a priest or doctor signs a contract with the military to do combat arms, yes, they will be required to kill. Don't like it? Don't sign the contract. You're not a victim.

What's even dumber about this is that maybe 5% of the military are actual trigger pullers, the rest will not see any action at all. The 5% that do pull the trigger knew exactly what they were getting when they signed up. Big boy rules, be a man and honor your obligations. There isn't a single soldier in Afghanistan that didn't once raise his or her right hand and voluntarily swear an oath.
 
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Re: Since The Word "God" Is Under Fire By the Feds Why Conscientious Objectors Allowe

joG said:
I would have nothing against any of the above that does not directly insult others and my suspicion is that you know the difference.
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What is or isn't insulting is a matter of personal opinion. So, again, where do you draw the line?

Could I wear a shirt as a teacher that announces that I'm gay?
 
Re: Since The Word "God" Is Under Fire By the Feds Why Conscientious Objectors Allowe

Koros said:
What is or isn't insulting is a matter of personal opinion. So, again, where do you draw the line?

Could I wear a shirt as a teacher that announces that I'm gay?
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Point taken. I would tend to allow anything to be said or exhibited short of provoking violence. And yes, there are people that get violent with less provocation than others. It is then a question for the police and courts. Again I would tend to think that people should be tolerant and not become violent, so the intolerant and violent should usually be punished. Frustration tolerance should be conditioned pre-school.
 
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