• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!
  • Welcome to our archives. No new posts are allowed here.

Harry Potter and reality and God.

JP Cusick

JP Cusick

The Expert
DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 19, 2011
Messages
1,240
Reaction score
177
Location
Hollywood, MD. USA, 20636
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Moderate
I never read the books but I like the Harry Potter movies, and it seems to me that what those HP movies are telling and demonstrating is a Godly message fitting for any religious faith, because it has a realistic type of magic.

As in a person can not fly, but they have broom sticks which makes them fly, so it has a realistic application. Just as they need magic wands and use potions and spells to make things happen, which means that the HP magic has a realistic application, because a broom could have a small rocket or jet motor in order to fly, and the wands could have a small laser and batteries to make them work, and etc.

I find that the hard line Christian people do not like HP at all, and I say this realism of HP is what brings up the Christian defenses, in that miracles and magic are very closely aligned, so then magic made realistic counters the very idea of supernatural miracles - which is what I like about it.

Of course next (as always) I take things much farther, as like the HP stories have some few people who become ghost after death while most other people do NOT become ghost, which I see as accurate in real life with real ghost.

It also has a peculiar message about evil which is very impressive, in that the evil is very humanistic and realistic, just as the arch villain Voldemort is at first an invisible or unseen creature like a spirit creature, but later after he becomes personified as a human then that is when we see the evil as mortal, and thereafter it dies.

In my view there is a very real God who is active and participating in this world, and thereby I see the Harry Potter stories as some message or purpose coming from the thing we call as God.

I do not mean to say that its author J.K. Rowling is a prophet of God, but I do say that God used her as His instrument, just as God could use any other person, except that she was the prime exceptional candidate in this case.

My perception is that God uses the messages included in the HP stories as His way of preparing mankind for our future destiny.

It appears to be like putting on salt to enhance the flavor.

I do not view that HP message as being a message just for Christian - no, as the message is for the general population or a.k.a. the ignorant masses.

An intelligent person can expect an intelligent message, and an enlightened person can expect an enlightened message, so also an emotional nit-wit can expect to receive an emotional nit-wit message.

Even the messages of God are limited by the depth or the integrity of the receivers.

Alternative views are invited and welcome.
 
I find Harry Potter more believable then any religion.
 
Moderator's Warning:
Religion forum, civility, no God bashing or general religion bashing, etc. You know the drill.
 
JP Cusick said:
I never read the books but I like the Harry Potter movies, and it seems to me that what those HP movies are telling and demonstrating is a Godly message fitting for any religious faith, because it has a realistic type of magic.

As in a person can not fly, but they have broom sticks which makes them fly, so it has a realistic application. Just as they need magic wands and use potions and spells to make things happen, which means that the HP magic has a realistic application, because a broom could have a small rocket or jet motor in order to fly, and the wands could have a small laser and batteries to make them work, and etc.

I find that the hard line Christian people do not like HP at all, and I say this realism of HP is what brings up the Christian defenses, in that miracles and magic are very closely aligned, so then magic made realistic counters the very idea of supernatural miracles - which is what I like about it.

Of course next (as always) I take things much farther, as like the HP stories have some few people who become ghost after death while most other people do NOT become ghost, which I see as accurate in real life with real ghost.

It also has a peculiar message about evil which is very impressive, in that the evil is very humanistic and realistic, just as the arch villain Voldemort is at first an invisible or unseen creature like a spirit creature, but later after he becomes personified as a human then that is when we see the evil as mortal, and thereafter it dies.

In my view there is a very real God who is active and participating in this world, and thereby I see the Harry Potter stories as some message or purpose coming from the thing we call as God.

I do not mean to say that its author J.K. Rowling is a prophet of God, but I do say that God used her as His instrument, just as God could use any other person, except that she was the prime exceptional candidate in this case.

My perception is that God uses the messages included in the HP stories as His way of preparing mankind for our future destiny.

It appears to be like putting on salt to enhance the flavor.

I do not view that HP message as being a message just for Christian - no, as the message is for the general population or a.k.a. the ignorant masses.

An intelligent person can expect an intelligent message, and an enlightened person can expect an enlightened message, so also an emotional nit-wit can expect to receive an emotional nit-wit message.

Even the messages of God are limited by the depth or the integrity of the receivers.

Alternative views are invited and welcome.
Click to expand...



Didn't read the books. Saw the movies, liked them fairly well.

Heard the criticism from some of my bretheren (and sisteren).... shrugged and thought "if you can't tell the difference between reality and fantasy, don't go to the movies" and moved on.


Can't really agree that HP has any particular Christian message to it though. Basic good vs evil is pretty generic, whether the weapon of choice is wands, sixguns or light-sabers.
 
iacardsfan said:
I find Harry Potter more believable then any religion.
Click to expand...
I am sorry that a Moderator took exception because that was a BIG part of my point, that HP is more believable than the religious miracles, and thereby HP makes the religions to be more believable and more realistic.

As like Jesus walking on water is often maligned, but Harry Potter walking on water could have a logical yet magical reason for walking on the water.

Maybe Jesus walking on water is not believable - but HP walking on water is completely believable.

I even take it farther that if someone from the future like a Neil Armstrong went back in time to the 1st century then they could use modern science as like on Star Trek shows and heal the sick and raise the dead and etc etc etc, so we can believe that some future Niel Armstrong or Captain Kirk could do that but Jesus is not believable.

As such HP makes the religious beliefs as realistic - in my perspective.
 
JP Cusick said:
I am sorry that a Moderator took exception because that was a BIG part of my point, that HP is more believable than the religious miracles, and thereby HP makes the religions to be more believable and more realistic.
Click to expand...

Saying that in one's opinion all gods are inventions of manking is god bashing? I don't see how that works. Is this a pro-deism site?
 
Moderator's Warning:
Folks, will you please, PLEASE, read the RULES... the site in general requires that you not dispute with Moderators in-thread, but take it up via Binky, Contact Us, or PM. The rules for the Religion Forum ONLY prohibit generalized religion bashing and saying there is no God, that sort of thing. If we could maybe READ the rules and maybe FOLLOW them, then we can not get INFRACTED, right? Right.


We now return to your regularly scheduled whatever...
 
Last edited:
HP was a jesus-like figure in the story. He finds out his entire life he is one of the items that must be destroyed to kill the evil Voldemort. He must sacrifice himself in order to rid the world of the evil that has beset his world. While the story doesn't overtly identify him as such the parallel is there and as such, provides the unaware reader the idea that he must do what is right not for himself but for others. While some certainly would not see HP as anything but a blasphemous figure and show using biblical passages how witchcraft is forbidden and the most popular passage would be

Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live, Exodus 22:18

Christians see problems with HP as the jesus like figure for the practice of witchcraft is in biblical terms inherent evil, secondly that salvation comes not through belief in Christ, not works of witchcraft - and there was nothing Harry liked better than being at school learning his craft. The real issue is how much leeway does Christianity give (or is willing to give) to pass the message of sacrifice? There were noble and very good human things that went with the story as well - courage, friendship, love (Dumbledor's preaching through the series). To those not wanting to willing to partake in organized religion it has a semi-religious under current. It's obvious once you analyze it - though it's benign enough that it doesn't slap you in the face.

I don't know if God used Rowling or not, but to those without much knowledge or background in religious belief it provides a sub text that one can see and is apparent - should they ever want to discover more about Christianity those open enough to not immediately pull Exodus out of their ass and pummel people with it could use the story as a way towards God instead of a way to ban new followers as heretics.
 
JP Cusick said:
I never read the books but I like the Harry Potter movies, and it seems to me that what those HP movies are telling and demonstrating is a Godly message fitting for any religious faith, because it has a realistic type of magic.

As in a person can not fly, but they have broom sticks which makes them fly, so it has a realistic application. Just as they need magic wands and use potions and spells to make things happen, which means that the HP magic has a realistic application, because a broom could have a small rocket or jet motor in order to fly, and the wands could have a small laser and batteries to make them work, and etc.

I find that the hard line Christian people do not like HP at all, and I say this realism of HP is what brings up the Christian defenses, in that miracles and magic are very closely aligned, so then magic made realistic counters the very idea of supernatural miracles - which is what I like about it.

Of course next (as always) I take things much farther, as like the HP stories have some few people who become ghost after death while most other people do NOT become ghost, which I see as accurate in real life with real ghost.

It also has a peculiar message about evil which is very impressive, in that the evil is very humanistic and realistic, just as the arch villain Voldemort is at first an invisible or unseen creature like a spirit creature, but later after he becomes personified as a human then that is when we see the evil as mortal, and thereafter it dies.

In my view there is a very real God who is active and participating in this world, and thereby I see the Harry Potter stories as some message or purpose coming from the thing we call as God.

I do not mean to say that its author J.K. Rowling is a prophet of God, but I do say that God used her as His instrument, just as God could use any other person, except that she was the prime exceptional candidate in this case.

My perception is that God uses the messages included in the HP stories as His way of preparing mankind for our future destiny.

It appears to be like putting on salt to enhance the flavor.

I do not view that HP message as being a message just for Christian - no, as the message is for the general population or a.k.a. the ignorant masses.

An intelligent person can expect an intelligent message, and an enlightened person can expect an enlightened message, so also an emotional nit-wit can expect to receive an emotional nit-wit message.

Even the messages of God are limited by the depth or the integrity of the receivers.

Alternative views are invited and welcome.
Click to expand...

Drugs.jpg


I am pretty sure harry potter books don't have a deeper meaning beyond entertainment.
 
JP Cusick said:
In that case you completely missed the boat.

Missed the point and missed everything.

See posting #8 above.
Click to expand...

Literature can be speculated on endlessly and all sorts of BS can be made up about it. This is seen as a plus in many academic settings even. But in the end, most of the time it is still speculation. The simple fact is, there are story archtypes that tend to be repeated over and over because they work and that is what people are used to. A Jesus type figure (overcoming evil) is a pretty typical one, but it doesn't necessarily or definitively mean anything deeper than surface entertainment.
 
tacomancer said:
Literature can be speculated on endlessly and all sorts of BS can be made up about it. This is seen as a plus in many academic settings even. But in the end, most of the time it is still speculation. The simple fact is, there are story archtypes that tend to be repeated over and over because they work and that is what people are used to. A Jesus type figure (overcoming evil) is a pretty typical one, but it doesn't necessarily or definitively mean anything deeper than surface entertainment.
Click to expand...
Actually I did specifically say that this was discussing the HP MOVIES and not the BOOKS (the literature), just FYI.

Plus it is not often if ever that I would ever contradict Wikipedia, but in this one case of the claim of the "seven basic plots" then I see that as too restrictive, as it leaves out stories of romance, or revelations of God, or documentaries, or factual accounts like biographies and reminisces, and other such plots or story-lines or themes.

Since I do very much like and appreciate Wikipedia then maybe Wiki simply meant that as a reference to fiction and novels while this thread is attempting to paint Harry Potter as a realistic concept even though an unreal story.

What I see you and others doing with such all-inclusive categories is just rationalizing away life, instead of venturing into the unknown and unsee-able things which take humanity into a higher plane.
 
JP Cusick said:
Actually I did specifically say that this was discussing the HP MOVIES and not the BOOKS (the literature), just FYI.

Plus it is not often if ever that I would ever contradict Wikipedia, but in this one case of the claim of the "seven basic plots" then I see that as too restrictive, as it leaves out stories of romance, or revelations of God, or documentaries, or factual accounts like biographies and reminisces, and other such plots or story-lines or themes.

Since I do very much like and appreciate Wikipedia then maybe Wiki simply meant that as a reference to fiction and novels while this thread is attempting to paint Harry Potter as a realistic concept even though an unreal story.

What I see you and others doing with such all-inclusive categories is just rationalizing away life, instead of venturing into the unknown and unsee-able things which take humanity into a higher plane.
Click to expand...

same rules apply, its still a form of story telling.
 
JP Cusick said:
Your negativity rules do not apply to me.

So why are you posting here?

Is it just to cut-down the entire point and purpose?
Click to expand...

I am here to share my opinion and add a dimension to the discussion
 
JP Cusick said:
As like Jesus walking on water is often maligned, but Harry Potter walking on water could have a logical yet magical reason for walking on the water.

Maybe Jesus walking on water is not believable - but HP walking on water is completely believable.
Click to expand...

The Case for Jesus and The Resurrection had been studied by numerous scholars. Philosophical arguments support the reality of the Resurrection. There's been evidence for Jesus, and for the Resurrection.

On the other hand, is there even an interest to question that HP - as in the movie franchise - even existed?

Did anyone ever seen a boy flying high on a broomstick? I guess it's believable when you see it right there on the big screen! Fantasy films, no reading or deep-thinking required. Just vegetate. What you see - you just take it all in! :lol:

That's what fantasy films are for. A temporary escape from reality. To be "lost" in them - otherwise,
you won't enjoy the ride. You won't get your money's worth.

The actors in some fantasy movies deserve an award for being so believable! And all the people behind the scenes, too.



I even take it farther that if someone from the future like a Neil Armstrong went back in time to the 1st century then they could use modern science as like on Star Trek shows and heal the sick and raise the dead and etc etc etc, so we can believe that some future Niel Armstrong or Captain Kirk could do that but Jesus is not believable.
Click to expand...

That's the point isn't it. In Jesus' time, and in the first century they didn't have modern science as we know it at the time Armstrong went to the moon.

The point for performing miracles is to prove that Jesus was sent by God. Let's not lose that message.

If the First Century people had modern science similar to the late 60's, perhaps the miracles performed by Jesus and the Apostles wouldn't be about simple healing, or raising the "dead" (because raising the "dead" can be done through CPR and modern gadgets!).



As such HP makes the religious beliefs as realistic - in my perspective.
Click to expand...

Unless a person is religious, why would he even think about religion when he's out watching HP?
Or any movies that are obvious - and UNMISTAKEABLY - fantasy?
The purpose of fantasy films is to provide entertainment, a temporary "escape" from reality.

Now.....some people do take that fantasy up a notch, and some start believing them.


Zombie movies are considered realistic by the zombie aficcionados that I won't be surprised if there are those who takes zombies serious enough to be armed and prepared for any future zombie apocalypse! :lol:

Zombie Survival Camp! Sign up now!






I consider myself religious and yet I never imagined The Chronicles of Narnia was supposed to be Christian-based,
until I've read about it!

But if a person consciously and determinedly seeks something religious-based or spiritual in every movie - I'm sure he'll find something.
 
Last edited:
iacardsfan said:
I find Harry Potter more believable then any religion.
Click to expand...
I tend to agree with this that HP is more believable than most religious doctrines of God and of miracles, and that was a BIG point of the opening post.

My finding is that lots of people are threatened by HP even though they may not admit that they show such feelings through their hostility and avoidance of the HP movies and books.

The movies were super huge box office hits - oh yes - but this is a big world with lots of people like myself who are enticed by the HP stories, while many others are threatened by them.

What I see as the distinction between those enticed and those threatened by the movies is the specific and realistic application at the very beginning of the 1st movie, in that Harry Potter got a strange letter from a strange place delivered by a bird (an owl) and then hand delivered by the huge hairy beast of a man Hagrid, and there is the distinction that HP went - he went.

In real life the HP stories would end right there because most people simply would NOT go, and it is hard to imagine anyone who would go.

Most people are so timid and paranoid and shallow that they would laugh at such a letter, that they would tear it up or burn it or even take the letter to the police to be investigated, as very few if any person would actually go as HP just got up and went.

It would take a belief and a faith and a lot of gumption to go with it.

Without that 1st step then the entire story either starts or stops, and that is the same distinction between being enticed or threatened by such a thing.

Today in our society if anyone hears a voice or sees a vision then they go to a Psychiatrist and get medicated so to stop any possibility of following up on whatever the experience might mean.

It surely would be hard to embrace parts 2 - 8 when one is stifled on the very first step.
 
JP Cusick said:
I find that the hard line Christian people do not like HP at all, and I say this realism of HP is what brings up the Christian defenses, in that miracles and magic are very closely aligned, so then magic made realistic counters the very idea of supernatural miracles - which is what I like about it.
Click to expand...

There is no such thing as a "Christian-lite". A practicing Christian is supposed to follow the teachings in the Scriptures.

The reason why practicing Christians do not like HP and magic, is because we're not supposed to associate ourselves with witchcraft and sorcery. Those are from the devil.

Here are some of the verses about witchcraft and sorcery.


Acts 13
6 Now when they had gone through the island[a] to Paphos, they found a certain sorcerer, a false prophet, a Jew whose name was Bar-Jesus, 7 who was with the proconsul, Sergius Paulus, an intelligent man. This man called for Barnabas and Saul and sought to hear the word of God. 8 But Elymas the sorcerer (for so his name is translated) withstood them, seeking to turn the proconsul away from the faith. 9 Then Saul, who also is called Paul, filled with the Holy Spirit, looked intently at him 10 and said, “O full of all deceit and all fraud, you son of the devil, you enemy of all righteousness, will you not cease perverting the straight ways of the Lord?


Revelation 21:8
But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Leviticus 19:31
Regard not them that have familiar spirits, neither seek after wizards, to be defiled by them: I [am] the LORD your God.


Leviticus 20:6
And the soul that turneth after such as have familiar spirits, and after wizards, to go a whoring after them, I will even set my face against that soul, and will cut him off from among his people.


2 Kings 23:24 - Moreover the [workers with] familiar spirits, and the wizards, and the images, and the idols, and all the abominations that were spied in the land of Judah and in Jerusalem, did Josiah put away, that he might perform the words of the law which were written in the book that Hilkiah the priest found in the house of the LORD.


1 Samuel 15:23 - For rebellion [is as] the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness [is as] iniquity and idolatry. Because thou hast rejected the word of the LORD, he hath also rejected thee from [being] king.
 
Last edited:
JP Cusick said:
My finding is that lots of people are threatened by HP even though they may not admit that they show such feelings through their hostility and avoidance of the HP movies and books.

The movies were super huge box office hits - oh yes - but this is a big world with lots of people like myself who are enticed by the HP stories, while many others are threatened by them.
Click to expand...


I wouldn't say Christians feel "threatened" by them....we're just cautious that we wouldn't be among those who'd be ENTICED BY THE DEVIL.

The devil will do all he can to deceive and lure you. There is no such thing as "good" witches either in the eyes of God. Witchcraft is witchcraft.


Ephesians 6
The Whole Armor of God

10 Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord and in the power of His might. 11 Put on the whole armor of God,
that you may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.

12 For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places.
 
Last edited:
I think the OP may have been stoned. "Realistic Magic" because they fly on broomsticks ???

Anyway, Emma Watson grew up very nicely and this makes me feel closer to a divine being.
 
It's one thing to watch movies like HP for its entertainment purposes....but it's quite another when we start approving and justifying the practice of witchcraft.

Or start associating witchcraft and sorcery with.....God!
 
Last edited:
Yeah, I never understood fundies raising hell over movies. If you don't want to watch it, don't. Protesting it's release or wagging your finger at the people going to watch such movies only makes them want to do it more.

I would have never watched Disney's Frozen if the fundies weren't raising hell about some bestiality/incestuous/homosexual plot. I watched it, all of that was garbage and it says more about the people that wish to see such a plot, or fabricate such a bizarre plot and see only that in everything.

It's border lined tribalism.

I heard the same garbage about the golden compass. That was a good movie, but lord how the fundies bitched about it.

Basically if fundies say it's bad, it isn't likely to be bad, they just want to see evil every where they look to feel less guilty for their own evil doings. If the world seems worse to them they can feel more pious. It's selfish as hell don't believe for a moment that this is about God.
 
tacomancer said:
A Jesus type figure (overcoming evil) is a pretty typical one, but it doesn't necessarily or definitively mean anything deeper than surface entertainment.
Click to expand...
I figure that movies (stories) about overcoming evil matters to any person who at least applauds the overcoming of evil.

For many people the Jesus type of figure would be the ideal, just as Harry Potter is another ideal.

There are also very real people like the Mahatma Gandhi who truly did fantastic miracles and Martin Luther King who accomplished great things, and both of these had movies made about them because such huge personalities need to be told-of to the rest of the world.

The movies (at least some better movies) are not just trying to "entertain" as some times there is an idea message trying to get through.

I find that too many people are trying to simply hold onto the past, as like the Bible being the only source of enlightenment, when there are far more realistic messages as like the HP movies which are far better received as being far more realistic.

Harry Potter is more believable then many of the major doctrines of orthodox religion.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom