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Harry Potter and reality and God.

I don't watch much tv or movies, by choice but I did see part of the first harry potter movie. That was quite some time ago but my recollection about it was, I thought it was referencing the occult. Witches, incantations and stuff. It's like paganism. Although there is a basic plot of the good hero triumphing over evil, it is not Christian. Not monotheism, not the one god.

So you can call this the religion of the future if you want, and choose to make it your religion but it is not based on the bible. It's far too simple a tale to even come close to the richness and meaning of the bible. While this may be amusing we must protect ourselves from being deceived, lest we descend into Satanism.
 
Manny said:
I don't watch much tv or movies, by choice but I did see part of the first harry potter movie. That was quite some time ago but my recollection about it was, I thought it was referencing the occult. Witches, incantations and stuff. It's like paganism. Although there is a basic plot of the good hero triumphing over evil, it is not Christian. Not monotheism, not the one god.

So you can call this the religion of the future if you want, and choose to make it your religion but it is not based on the bible. It's far too simple a tale to even come close to the richness and meaning of the bible. While this may be amusing we must protect ourselves from being deceived, lest we descend into Satanism.
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This posting above certainly demonstrates what I mean by being "threatened" by HP.

More importantly is that I was really trying to show a distinction away from religion and try to step into the world of reality, thereby "Harry Potter and reality and God."

The REALITIES are different from the religious beliefs, and the REALITIES are much closer to the real God and thereby away from the frightened religions who are threatened by the reality of HP.

It is rather easy to accept a person like HP flying on a broomstick, but rather hard for people to realistically believe Jesus walking on water, go figure that!
 
JP Cusick said:
I figure that movies (stories) about overcoming evil matters to any person who at least applauds the overcoming of evil.

For many people the Jesus type of figure would be the ideal, just as Harry Potter is another ideal.

There are also very real people like the Mahatma Gandhi who truly did fantastic miracles and Martin Luther King who accomplished great things, and both of these had movies made about them because such huge personalities need to be told-of to the rest of the world.

The movies (at least some better movies) are not just trying to "entertain" as some times there is an idea message trying to get through.

I find that too many people are trying to simply hold onto the past, as like the Bible being the only source of enlightenment, when there are far more realistic messages as like the HP movies which are far better received as being far more realistic.

Harry Potter is more believable then many of the major doctrines of orthodox religion.
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All stories that get published has to have a conflict otherwise it would be a dead story!

All movies has the element of good vs evil! Or right vs wrong. Even love stories have that, too!

Go ahead, watch any movies and it will show a conflict somewhere.....thus I said,

if one is CONSCIOUSLY and DETERMINEDLY SEEKING ANYTHING THAT CAN RELATE TO SPIRITUALITY IN ANY WAY IN ANY MOVIE - HE'LL DEFINITELY FIND SOMETHING!
 
JP Cusick said:
I find that too many people are trying to simply hold onto the past, as like the Bible being the only source of enlightenment,
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Christians holding on to the Bible for enlightenment is nowhere like holding on to the past!
Christianity is not a thing of the past, if you hadn't noticed. :lol:
 
JP Cusick said:
when there are far more realistic messages as like the HP movies which are far better received as being far more realistic.
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Well, to each his own. Some people probably see the movie, Sharknado, as very realistic, and some may find it stupid.

You may find HP realistic.....some of us just prefer to see it as a fantasy. That doesn't mean there's anything wrong about us, just because we refuse to see HP through your glasses.

I've had the opportunity to watch HP several times, but I don't think I ever managed to watch it all in one sitting like I would most movies I watch. The effects are great....but something about it just didn't hold my interest long enough to really sit down and watch. It has nothing to do with religion, either.

But I did play HP the game, and I liked it!
 
JP Cusick said:
It is rather easy to accept a person like HP flying on a broomstick, but rather hard for people to realistically believe Jesus walking on water, go figure that!
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Not all people are like you. That's the real reality you should accept.

It's easy for a lot of people to accept HP flying around on a broomstick - and I'm one of those - because we know he's a fictional character, for crying out loud!

Furthermore, what's new about witches and wizards? It's the special FX that helped HP a lot, imho!

I grew up on Cinderella, Snow White, Sleeping Beauty...witches galore! I thoroughly enjoyed Hocus Pocus - remember that comedy with Bette Midler? I watch so many witches movies - that's why perhaps HP didn't interest me anymore as much! I've been saturated with witches' movies!

And I guess I've seen a lot a Indiana Jones-type of adventure movies (and I lump HP with that genre, too - except as a wizard), thus....it didn't hold my fancy.
 
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I guess I am vastly different than most believers. I don't need magic to know God is God, nor do I see value in it. Perhaps I am just simple, but the belief I hold is that God loves us all no matter what. That was the greatest miracle that has occurred. I value the commandment to love others as yourself to be the supreme commandment. Even if the miraculous events in the bible were staged, the commandment to love others as you love yourself is the core of it.

Harry Potter, while I loved the movies and the books, he didn't love you, the movies the books didn't command you to love others.
 
JP Cusick said:
I do not view that HP message as being a message just for Christian - no, as the message is for the general population or a.k.a. the ignorant masses.

An intelligent person can expect an intelligent message, and an enlightened person can expect an enlightened message, so also an emotional nit-wit can expect to receive an emotional nit-wit message.

Even the messages of God are limited by the depth or the integrity of the receivers.

Alternative views are invited and welcome.
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Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

One problem with intelligent or enlightened people is that they find meaning where none was intended or exists, because they are intelligent and have a point of view. Nothing wrong with this in fact it often makes the world a more interesting place.

The issue is when they then imply as could be inferred here, that if someone does not see things as they do then they must not be as intelligent or as enlightened as those who do.

No doubt some Christians made and make far too much out of an entertaining yarn that got millions of kids to read. But there is little or no difference between the extreme stance of making the devil out of entertainment than the extreme of making that very same entertaining story somehow "God's hand".

It is attributed to Freud as having said, "Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar" and it would seem the Harry Potter series is a good story, ignorant, enlightened or not.
 
gilbertc1908 said:
One problem with intelligent or enlightened people is that they find meaning where none was intended or exists, because they are intelligent and have a point of view. Nothing wrong with this in fact it often makes the world a more interesting place.

The issue is when they then imply as could be inferred here, that if someone does not see things as they do then they must not be as intelligent or as enlightened as those who do.
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My view is that whenever intelligent or enlightened people find meaning - then it is wise to follow their lead.

I never (NEVER) said that any person was not intelligent or not enlightened for not getting the message - no - I said something far different than that indeed - what I say is that this message within the HP movies CAN BE SEEN by anyone whether they be intelligent or not, or if they be enlightened or not.

There is an maxim of mine which goes like this = If the most lowest of people can not understand and appreciate the message then that message is defective or untrue or else abusive.

gilbertc1908 said:
No doubt some Christians made and make far too much out of an entertaining yarn that got millions of kids to read. But there is little or no difference between the extreme stance of making the devil out of entertainment than the extreme of making that very same entertaining story somehow "God's hand".
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Well there is a distinction when I say that just this one (1) story (in all 8 movies) because declaring just one (1) series as "inspired" is far different then saying all movies or all entertainment or even claiming some large number of shows - as this is just saying that this one Happy Potter is of particular interest because it does have signs and wonders which point to God's handiwork.

Other movies as like the "Lord of the Rings" is based on an idolatry of those rings, or the Superman movies give an unwholesome message of physical power without any moral or ethical point or purpose, and most movies have such visible defects while HP is very much otherwise.

HP movies give a message that such things are very possible (could be realistic) which is the ultimate religious motivation for those with eyes that see and ears which hear and a heart which understands.
 
JP Cusick said:
My view is that whenever intelligent or enlightened people find meaning - then it is wise to follow their lead.

I never (NEVER) said that any person was not intelligent or not enlightened for not getting the message - no - I said something far different than that indeed - what I say is that this message within the HP movies CAN BE SEEN by anyone whether they be intelligent or not, or if they be enlightened or not.

There is an maxim of mine which goes like this = If the most lowest of people can not understand and appreciate the message then that message is defective or untrue or else abusive.


Well there is a distinction when I say that just this one (1) story (in all 8 movies) because declaring just one (1) series as "inspired" is far different then saying all movies or all entertainment or even claiming some large number of shows - as this is just saying that this one Happy Potter is of particular interest because it does have signs and wonders which point to God's handiwork.

Other movies as like the "Lord of the Rings" is based on an idolatry of those rings, or the Superman movies give an unwholesome message of physical power without any moral or ethical point or purpose, and most movies have such visible defects while HP is very much otherwise.

HP movies give a message that such things are very possible (could be realistic) which is the ultimate religious motivation for those with eyes that see and ears which hear and a heart which understands.
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As I said, it is great to seek, ascribe and debate meaning in literature and film. Who I am to say it isn't there. My point was and remains simple, you see a meaning I just cant see, where I see a story about a dorky kid who turns out to be a "superhero".

The everyman or everykid in this instance, fighting evil and winning is either enormously successful (see also Lewis' The Chronicles of Narnia, which is absolutely inspired by Christian theology) or incredibly boring. And we read or view them and most often project ourselves into the "meaning" in one way or another.

If I misunderstood your use of "ignorant masses", then I apologize for my assumption.
 
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gilbertc1908 said:
you see a meaning I just cant see,
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I say that it was described sufficiently in the opening post, so since you can not see that then I will not try to make you see.

Peace.

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TobyOne said:
I think the OP may have been stoned.
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No, the OP is trying not to get stoned.

In fact I often have to worry that some gang of Christians might stone me when they get their chance.

TobyOne said:
"Realistic Magic" because they fly on broomsticks ???
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That is not really so complicated, because "realistic" means that today we know about advanced technology so that with some new invention then creating a flying broom is thereby a real thing that could happen.

The Bible tells us that Jesus flew up into the clouds, Acts 1:9-11, and those "clouds" could easily mean exhaust fumes from a jet engine or a rocket engine, but instead Christianity paints that as some unrealistic picture of Jesus floating on nothing and into nothingness.

Therefore the difference that HP tells us is about being realistic with things that simply look like magic.
 
JP Cusick said:
That is not really so complicated, because "realistic" means that today we know about advanced technology so that with some new invention then creating a flying broom is thereby a real thing that could happen.

The Bible tells us that Jesus flew up into the clouds, Acts 1:9-11, and those "clouds" could easily mean exhaust fumes from a jet engine or a rocket engine, but instead Christianity paints that as some unrealistic picture of Jesus floating on nothing and into nothingness.

Therefore the difference that HP tells us is about being realistic with things that simply look like magic.
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Yes but it seems to me you miss the point both within the story of Harry and Jesus.

Potter is not using some "realistic" invention from McDonald Douglas or Boeing when he flies he and his friends are not human, they are beings with extraordinary, dare I say supernatural powers. There is nothing realistic about the entire story that is why is works.

Jesus Christ on the other hand, for the Christian, is God incarnate so water into wine, raising someone from the dead, being born of a virgin all of that ridiculousness which is absolutely impossible is possible simply because the Christian believes that the Creator of time, matter and life is likely not limited by human understanding, time matter or His own creation(s).

The application of realism to Harry Potter misses the point completely of Jesus Christ.
 
gilbertc1908 said:
Yes but it seems to me you miss the point both within the story of Harry and Jesus.

Potter is not using some "realistic" invention from McDonald Douglas or Boeing when he flies he and his friends are not human, they are beings with extraordinary, dare I say supernatural powers. There is nothing realistic about the entire story that is why is works.

Jesus Christ on the other hand, for the Christian, is God incarnate so water into wine, raising someone from the dead, being born of a virgin all of that ridiculousness which is absolutely impossible is possible simply because the Christian believes that the Creator of time, matter and life is likely not limited by human understanding, time matter or His own creation(s).

The application of realism to Harry Potter misses the point completely of Jesus Christ.
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It surely does miss the point for orthodox Christianity who can not move out of their entrenched doctrines.

But for anyone in the rest of humanity who are open minded then it hits the point rather directly and precisely.
 
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