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In the future: Evil Criminals

Amadeus

Amadeus

Chews the Cud
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If evil comes from the mind, and not the soul, do you believe that someone who commits an evil act should be cured or imprisoned? Assuming that, in the future, treatment of severe personality disorders is available (e.g. cure for psychopathy, extreme sexual deviance, and severe anti-social behaviour).

Bonus thought: Is it even ethical to change someone's personality so that it conforms to society's norms?

Of course, the movie 'A Clockwork Orange' comes to mind... but lets assume that the treatment is more effective than the Ludovico Technique.
 
Someone who commits a heinous crime should be punished accordingly.
 
I'm not sure how feasible it would be to think that serious psychopathies can be cured. Treated chemically and/or with therapy? Sure. It would be nice if actual cure were possible, and I would have no ethical issues whatsoever with that, assuming it was not mandatory and was not forced upon an individual, but was given as an option or alternative to imprisonment.
 
X Factor said:
Someone who commits a heinous crime should be punished accordingly.
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I agree, but my impression of the op leads me to believe that we would be dealing with someone who was not deemed fully competent to stand trial for usual fitting punishment.
 
What does imprisonment really do? In some cases, in many cases, a person comes out worse than when they went in.
 
Amadeus said:
What does imprisonment really do? In some cases, in many cases, a person comes out worse than when they went in.
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Separates them from those they want to harm and maybe provides some measure of satisfaction for the victims and families of victims.
 
X Factor said:
Separates them from those they want to harm and maybe provides some measure of satisfaction for the victims and families of victims.
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Justice and rehabilitation shouldn't be based on vengeance. This thread assumes that full rehabilitation is possible in the case of extreme personality disorders.
 
Amadeus said:
Justice and rehabilitation shouldn't be based on vengeance. This thread assumes that full rehabilitation is possible in the case of extreme personality disorders.
Click to expand...

And in my mind they would still have to pay for the crime they committed. Letting them walk with a few therapy sessions isn't justice either. Punishing wrong doing seems like such a simple concept.
 
Amadeus said:
If evil comes from the mind, and not the soul, do you believe that someone who commits an evil act should be cured or imprisoned? Assuming that, in the future, treatment of severe personality disorders is available (e.g. cure for psychopathy, extreme sexual deviance, and severe anti-social behaviour).

Bonus thought: Is it even ethical to change someone's personality so that it conforms to society's norms?

Of course, the movie 'A Clockwork Orange' comes to mind... but lets assume that the treatment is more effective than the Ludovico Technique.
Click to expand...

I've read too much about sociopaths to believe we can change them. Whether or not a sociopath begins acting out his impulses is something else again. But I believe some people are just hardwired wrong, and nothing we can do will ever change them. If the truth were told, I think only a small minority of sociopaths commit evil acts. Sociopaths are part of the stew that makes up humanity. We need them in certain ways.
 
X Factor said:
And in my mind they would still have to pay for the crime they committed. Letting them walk with a few therapy sessions isn't justice either. Punishing wrong doing seems like such a simple concept.
Click to expand...

If you had to chose between fully rehabilitating someone or imprisoning someone, which would you opt for? Just curious. There's no right or wrong answer, this is a philosophical question.
 
Amadeus said:
If you had to chose between fully rehabilitating someone or imprisoning someone, which would you opt for? Just curious. There's no right or wrong answer, this is a philosophical question.
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If it's either/or and we're assuming a serious crime, they should not escape a long prison sentence.
 
MaggieD said:
I've read too much about sociopaths to believe we can change them. Whether or not a sociopath begins acting out his impulses is something else again. But I believe some people are just hardwired wrong, and nothing we can do will ever change them. If the truth were told, I think only a small minority of sociopaths commit evil acts. Sociopaths are part of the stew that makes up humanity. We need them in certain ways.
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True, but when sociopathy enters into extreme criminal behaviour, then it becomes a societal problem. Basically just curious if it would be ethical or viable to cure them if the problem can be identified, rather than throwing them in some cell.
 
Amadeus said:
True, but when sociopathy enters into extreme criminal behaviour, then it becomes a societal problem. Basically just curious if it would be ethical or viable to cure them if the problem can be identified, rather than throwing them in some cell.
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If one could take a pedophile or violent sociopath and cure him? Turn him into an ordinary garden variety neurotic? I think it would be a wonderful thing. Honestly? I think many of these people live tortured lives.
 
MaggieD said:
If one could take a pedophile or violent sociopath and cure him? Turn him into an ordinary garden variety neurotic? I think it would be a wonderful thing. Honestly? I think many of these people live tortured lives.
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I agree. As sick as they are, as despicable as they can be, and as much as we hate them -- most people are a product of their environment. Hard to admit that sometimes, when the crime is especially heinous and/or involves children.
 
Amadeus said:
I agree. As sick as they are, as despicable as they can be, and as much as we hate them -- most people are a product of their environment. Hard to admit that sometimes, when the crime is especially heinous and/or involves children.
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The trouble is that there's no sure-fire recipe. Therein lies the rub.
 
Amadeus said:
If evil comes from the mind, and not the soul, do you believe that someone who commits an evil act should be cured or imprisoned?
Click to expand...

I believe US justice system is extremely harsh. USSR had a system which was almost as harsh in 1931 -- 1953.

In Russia, the average penalty for murder is 11 years. There are about 2000 prisoners serving life sentence. In USA, over 150,000 prisoners are on life sentence including 40,000 on life without parole.
 
X Factor said:
Separates them from those they want to harm and maybe provides some measure of satisfaction for the victims and families of victims.
Click to expand...

US justice system is based on manifold revenge.
 
Amadeus said:
I agree. As sick as they are, as despicable as they can be, and as much as we hate them -- most people are a product of their environment. Hard to admit that sometimes, when the crime is especially heinous and/or involves children.
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"We" hate them? Doesn't sound like you get more than mildly put out. Lol.
 
Amadeus said:
Justice and rehabilitation shouldn't be based on vengeance.
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Vengeance has always been a necessary part of justice. Can you give any example of "justice having been served" that doesn't involve someone who did something bad getting what they "deserve"? That's what justice is. A person who did a bad thing getting their comeuppance.

People don't like to admit that because they think it means accepting that any form or degree of vengeance is justice. But that's simply a mistake, that's not true.
 
I don't get vengence as a concept. Sure, I can understand anger and frustration in the heat of the moment, but cold-blooded, calculated vengence? Maybe I've let a sheltered life, or maybe I've gone entirely too utilitarian, but I just can't imagine sitting down and thinking "woo! I've added some more misery to the world!"

'Justice', for me, should be about the other two reasons other than vengence - detterent, and rehabilitation. The OP's hypothetical is great for the rehabilitation part, but not so great as a deterrent - depending on the methods of rehabilitation, obviously!
 
Justice is revenge in a nice suit.

Real mental illness cannot be cured, not ever. The problem nowdays is that if someone was diagnosed with depression and got better, then people expect those with mental illness can also be cured. The problem is that the person who had depression and got better, didn't have real depression, they just spent time feeling sorry for themselves.

I am for punishment first, rehabilitation later. I have my doubts about rehabilitation. I don't think those who commit crimes are ever really sorry for doing something, just sorry they got caught, and the idea they would never do a crime again is a matter of choice, like everything in life.
 
Amadeus said:
If evil comes from the mind, and not the soul, do you believe that someone who commits an evil act should be cured or imprisoned? Assuming that, in the future, treatment of severe personality disorders is available (e.g. cure for psychopathy, extreme sexual deviance, and severe anti-social behaviour).

Bonus thought: Is it even ethical to change someone's personality so that it conforms to society's norms?

Of course, the movie 'A Clockwork Orange' comes to mind... but lets assume that the treatment is more effective than the Ludovico Technique.
Click to expand...
Implying a cure, implies they are missing something chemically,
The problem is what most criminals are missing is an ability to have empathy.
It will be difficult to add a Conscience to someone.
I had heard that over 1% of the population are true sociopaths.
Most of those have found a way to live in society and follow the rules.
A small percentage, never learn how to succeed by following the rules,
and end up cross ways with our justice system.
Can they be cured? likely not, can they be rendered harmless?
It is difficult without rendering them worthless.
 
LadyMoonlight said:
Justice is revenge in a nice suit.

Real mental illness cannot be cured, not ever. The problem nowdays is that if someone was diagnosed with depression and got better, then people expect those with mental illness can also be cured. The problem is that the person who had depression and got better, didn't have real depression, they just spent time feeling sorry for themselves.
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That is, of course, complete and total bullsh*t. No offence.

Depression is treatable through medication and cognitive therapy. As many 'real mental illnesses' are.
 
Amadeus said:
That is, of course, complete and total bullsh*t. No offence.

Depression is treatable through medication and cognitive therapy. As many 'real mental illnesses' are.
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Unless you can quantitatively show someone is missing some chemical or enzyme,
that can be supplemented, the rest of the "cures" are subjective.
 
longview said:
Unless you can quantitatively show someone is missing some chemical or enzyme,
that can be supplemented, the rest of the "cures" are subjective.
Click to expand...

The burden of proof is not on people suffering from 'true depression'. The burden of proof is on those who say that depression cannot be cured, and if it is, then it's not true depression.
 
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