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Aren't we all Jewish (ethnicity)?

Thorgasm

Thorgasm

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If Noah and his wife were Jewish, doesn't that mean that everyone is Jewish?

Discuss.
 
Thorgasm said:
If Noah and his wife were Jewish, doesn't that mean that everyone is Jewish?

Discuss.
Click to expand...

Wouldnt in accord to that logic we all be the result of several generations of incest?

You know, the part they left out of the movie, where Noah ****s his daughter.
 
No. That's like... stupid at best.
 
I identify more strongly with the African shamanistic side of my heritage. ;)
 
Thorgasm said:
If Noah and his wife were Jewish, doesn't that mean that everyone is Jewish?

Discuss.
Click to expand...

I don't think the Jewish part came until Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, the twelve tribes Reuben, Simeon, Levi, Judah, Dan, Gad, Asher, Issachar, Zebulon, Naphtali, Joseph and Benjamin.
 
Thorgasm said:
If Noah and his wife were Jewish, doesn't that mean that everyone is Jewish?

Discuss.
Click to expand...

Noah wasn't Jewish, he was Hebrew. The tribe of Judea is Semitic, but there is also Ham and Japheth. Not everyone from Noah is Semitic, let alone Judean. As the modern term 'Jew' expands beyond the tribe of Judea, it does not extend beyond Shem (ethnically).
 
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The German said:
Wouldnt in accord to that logic we all be the result of several generations of incest?

You know, the part they left out of the movie, where Noah ****s his daughter.
Click to expand...

Iirc, it was his daughters who screwed him, after getting him drunk with the wine he made at his newly planted vineyard.
 
Jayhawker30 said:
Iirc, it was his daughters who screwed him, after getting him drunk with the wine he made at his newly planted vineyard.
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And they did so out of desperation to reproduce in a world with no other people, not out perversion.
 
ecofarm said:
Noah wasn't Jewish, he was Hebrew. The tribe of Judea is Semitic, but there is also Ham and Japheth.
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Shem was the son of Noah that brought forth the lineage of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob. Where is the evidence that Noah belonged to any tribe? It was Noah's righteousness for why he was chosen. Not because of some tribe affiliation. Genesis 6:9 Noah was a righteous man, blameless among the people of his time, and note the part "of his time".
 
vesper said:
Shem was the son of Noah that brought forth Abraham, Isaac, Jacob. Where is the evidence that Noah belonged to any tribe? It was Noah's righteousness for why he was chosen. Not because of some tribe affiliation. Genesis 6:9 Noah was a righteous man, blameless among the people of his time, and note the part "of his time".
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He's the founder of the Hebrew tribe, among which are Judeans (the original Jew, which did not exist in Noah's time) and other Semites.

One could be a decendant of Noah and be from Ham (Africa) or Japheth (Europe). Of course, Asia doesn't get a son because the writers didn't know Asia existed. Those who are Hamitic or Japhetic (?) are not Jews, they're not even Semites (from Shem).
 
Thorgasm said:
If Noah and his wife were Jewish, doesn't that mean that everyone is Jewish?

Discuss.
Click to expand...


If that is true, then how did we come to be divided into Jew and Gentile?
 
The German said:
Wouldnt in accord to that logic we all be the result of several generations of incest?

You know, the part they left out of the movie, where Noah ****s his daughter.
Click to expand...

Actually that was Lot and his daughters. The both had sex with him to preserve his line. It is all there in Genesis 19:

30 And Lot went up out of Zoar, and dwelt in the mountain, and his two daughters with him; for he feared to dwell in Zoar: and he dwelt in a cave, he and his two daughters.

31 And the firstborn said unto the younger, Our father is old, and there is not a man in the earth to come in unto us after the manner of all the earth:

32 Come, let us make our father drink wine, and we will lie with him, that we may preserve seed of our father.

33 And they made their father drink wine that night: and the firstborn went in, and lay with her father; and he perceived not when she lay down, nor when she arose.

34 And it came to pass on the morrow, that the firstborn said unto the younger, Behold, I lay yesternight with my father: let us make him drink wine this night also; and go thou in, and lie with him, that we may preserve seed of our father.

35 And they made their father drink wine that night also: and the younger arose, and lay with him; and he perceived not when she lay down, nor when she arose.

36 Thus were both the daughters of Lot with child by their father.
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Being a Jew is complicated, since it mixes ethnicity with religion. It becomes wonky when you consider that many Jews are atheists.
 
ecofarm said:
He's the founder of the Hebrew tribe, among which are Judeans (the original Jew, which did not exist in Noah's time) and other Semites.

One could be a decendant of Noah and be from Ham (Africa) or Japheth (Europe). Of course, Asia doesn't get a son because the writers didn't know Asia existed. Those who are Hamitic or Japhetic (?) are not Jews, they're not even Semites (from Shem).
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Sorry ecofarm I don't follow. Up to Noah I see him as a descendent of Adam only while separated from the descendents of Cain and his tribes which are also a descendent of Adam. It is his sons Shem Japheth and Ham from that point on all clans were formed. Abraham was a descendent of Shem which was the beginning of the Hebrew people. Father Abraham.
 
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vesper said:
Sorry ecofarm I don't follow. Up to Noah I see him as a descendent of Adam only and not a descendent of Cain and his tribes which are also a descendent of Adam. It is his sons Shem Japheth and Ham from that point on all clans were formed. Abraham was a descendent of Shem which was the beginning of the Hebrew people.
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Regarding the bold, someone not from Shem cannot possibly be Jewish in the original ethnic sense, nor the current ethnic definition. The Jews in Ethiopia are not from Ham, they're supposedly from Shem (and mixed).

I believe you're correct about Abraham being the founder of the Hebrew 'tribe' (so to speak). The thing is, did not Noah have the same beliefs? Some would argue a few differences (meat and a couple other details), but Noah believed in one God, the same as Abraham.
 
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ecofarm said:
Regarding the bold, someone not from Shem cannot possibly be Jewish in the original ethnic sense, nor the current ethnic definition. The Jews in Ethiopia are not from Ham, they're supposedly from Shem (and mixed).

I believe you're correct about Abraham being the founder of the Hebrew 'tribe' (so to speak). The thing is, did not Noah have the same beliefs? Some would argue a few differences (meat and a couple other details), but Noah believed in one God, the same as Abraham.
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You ask did Noah hold the same beliefs? In one sense yes and in another sense no. Did Noah love the Lord and others? Yes. And all the Law rests on that. It is the condition of his heart that God found favor and saved him and his family. Did Noah have all the rules in Leviticus to follow? No. Those came later once God had established a people unto himself.
 
vesper said:
Did Noah have all the rules in Leviticus to follow? No. Those came later once God had established a people unto himself.
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Noah knew sin.
 
ecofarm said:
Noah knew sin.
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He sure did. and don't we all. There were consequences for his sin but also forgiveness. You know a lot of folks make a big deal out of Noah getting drunk. I'm sure most would have desired to tie one on after the ordeal Noah encountered. Noah offered sacrifices to God. In return God made a covenant with Noah promising him never again would he destroy the earth with water. The key has always been the condition of the heart to find favor with God.
 
Thorgasm said:
If Noah and his wife were Jewish, doesn't that mean that everyone is Jewish? Discuss.
Click to expand...
Anyhow, we all probably have more recent Jewish ancestors. Gene flow is very quick and can be represented in entire populations within a few dozen generations. But for Noah and in regards to religion, if we are to believe archaeology, Judaism didn't become monotheistic until ~ 600 BCE. The Canaanite religion had no traces before ~ 1,200 BCE; Hebrew as a language first appeared in 900 BCE; and the oldest parts of the Old Testament are < 900 BCE. Anyone who reproduced during these times would have at least some, although tiny responsibility in contributing to the makeup of those alive today.
 
vesper said:
He sure did. and don't we all. There were consequences for his sin but also forgiveness. You know a lot of folks make a big deal out of Noah getting drunk. I'm sure most would have desired to tie one on after the ordeal Noah encountered. Noah offered sacrifices to God. In return God made a covenant with Noah promising him never again would he destroy the earth with water. The key has always been the condition of the heart to find favor with God.
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Darn straight. In fact, Gilgamesh needed the same recovery. #floodmythwasted
 
ecofarm said:
And they did so out of desperation to reproduce in a world with no other people, not out perversion.
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The perversion was with God on this one. I guess he likes this kind of raunchy shenanigan.
 
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