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America's Spiritual Decline

The German said:
"Out of wedlock pregnancy" is not the same as a child being born outside of a functioning family.

A modern era family doesnt [sic] need married parents.
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That is a false and destructive misconception, and the OP points out that we are very clearly seeing, in our society, the adverse consequences of it.

Marriage between a man and a woman is absolutely vital as the foundation of a truly functional and stable family; and functional, stable families, in turn, are vital for a stable and prosperous society.

God knew what he was doing when he set us up to function this manner, and when we defy him on this point, we bring all manner of ill consequences upon ourselves and on our society.


Tho on the far-wrong, of course, argue against this obvious truth, and they put forth policies intentionally aimed as undermining marriage and family, because the resulting societal decay creates exactly the kind of problems that give the far-wrong the opening to offer false solutions based on their statist ideology.
 
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Bob Blaylock said:
That is a false and destructive misconception, and the OP points out that we are very clearly seeing, in our society, the adverse consequences of it.

Marriage between a man and a woman is absolutely vital as the foundation of a truly functional and stable family; and functional, stable families, in turn, are vital for a stable and prosperous society.

God knew what he was doing when he set us up to function this manner, and when we defy him on this point, we bring all manner of ill consequences upon ourselves and on our society.
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What a bunch of hogwash, do hhave statistics to back that up?

No, just the ramblings of illiterate desert nomads from the bronze age.
 
The German said:
The issue of assholes who run away and leave their partner alone with a child is however not solved through marriage.
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It is certainly one of the major points of marriage—that before a man and a woman even begin producing children, that they have formally established a lifetime commitment to one another, to jointly take responsibility for one another and for any children that they may produce.

It takes a man and a woman to produce a child. It is marriage that establishes the legal and social framework that binds this man, woman, and child together as a family, and protects the child's right to the full care and support from both parents.
 
The German said:
What a bunch of hogwash, do hhave statistics to back that up?

No, just the ramblings of illiterate desert nomads from the bronze age.
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There is none so bind a he who will not see.

The proof of what I am saying is ubiquitous. If you will not acknowledge that is right in front of you, and undeniably obvious, then there is no argument I can make, and no evidence that I can produce, that will cure your self-inflicted blindness.
 
Bob Blaylock said:
There is none so bind a he who will not see.

The proof of what I am saying is ubiquitous. If you will not acknowledge that is right in front of you, and undeniably obvious, then there is no argument I can make, and no evidence that I can produce, that will cure your self-inflicted blindness.
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"Arrhh The TRUTH!! Ahhhhh! Truth truth TRUTH!"

That was your response in summery. No arguments but just the kind of rembling I would usualy expect from some homeless fool.
 
Bob Blaylock said:
It is certainly one of the major points of marriage—that before a man and a woman even begin producing children, that they have formally established a lifetime commitment to one another, to jointly take responsibility for one another and for any children that they may produce.
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"Produce" Holy crap, I shiver when the consideration of what your sexlife may be like even when that thought merely touches my mind.

Here is the thing. If you want to live some boring sexless life go ahead!

I live in the 21st century! And I wont have some pervert tell me how to live my sexlife!

Who the **** do you think you are that you can tell people how to have sex?! Disgusting!

It takes a man and a woman to produce a child.
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Wow! Did you figure that out all by yourself?
It is marriage that establishes the legal and social framework that binds this man, woman, and child together as a family, and protects the child's right to the full care and support from both parents.
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Not anymore. Period.
 
Bob Blaylock said:
Marriage between a man and a woman is absolutely vital as the foundation of a truly functional and stable family; and functional, stable families, in turn, are vital for a stable and prosperous society.

God knew what he was doing when he set us up to function this manner, and when we defy him on this point, we bring all manner of ill consequences upon ourselves and on our society.
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That's Westboro Baptist Churchism.


Tho on the far-wrong, of course, argue against this obvious truth, and they put forth policies intentionally aimed as undermining marriage and family, because the resulting societal decay creates exactly the kind of problems that give the far-wrong the opening to offer false solutions based on their statist ideology.
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Conspiracy theory, false motives.
 
Logicman said:
“America has turned its back on God. It mocks God. Instead it worships a twentieth century Baal, incarnated in sensuality, materialism, and immorality of every kind.” - Carl Henry
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Just because they did it in print doesn't mean they have anymore validity than the crazy man screaming on the street corner.
 
justabubba said:
while that would certainly help
the government incentives to have out of wedlock births is still present
a young mother can receive her own mail box money and housing only because she elected to have a child out of wedlock
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They're not really "incentives". Not having the child would save her a lot more money than the government is going to send her.

Either way, the idea that any of our nation's economic woes or the hardships faced by the lower classes are a result of lack of piety is sheer nonsense. As if there weren't an abundance of bastard children, poverty, and infidelity in more religious times. The only difference now is that we don't lie about it as much anymore.

The German said:
Are you serious? Up until the early 1980s it was even illigal in Switzerland to have a child out of wedlock and until the 1970s women who had become pregnant out of wedlock in Switzerland were forced to have an abortion and "repeat offenders" were even forcefully steralised. Having a child out of wedlock has meant being the subject of horrible social stigma and social isolation for a long time. Not because people thought it was bad for the child, but because of ideals on social norm. Having a child out of wedlock today does not come with the amount of social stigma that it use to - easier on both child and parents.
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It wasn't until the 1970s that bastard children weren't legally discriminated against in the United States.
 
TheDemSocialist said:
on demand access to birth control, condoms, morning after pill
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Yet pregnancies out of wedlock have skyrocketed since those things became widely accessible.
 
Paleocon said:
Yet pregnancies out of wedlock have skyrocketed since those things became widely accessible.
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teen pregnancy rates have been halved since 1990. Abortions in that age group are down 60% from the peak in the late 80s.

I honestly don't think there is a decline in morality....I just think we are more honest about it today and we don't force pregnant girls to get married.
 
Logicman said:
I just got through watching a segment on FOX News' "Outnumbered" show and the discussion was focusing on out-of-wedlock births in America and the accompanying increasing financial costs of that in welfare payments. The panel was debating the reasons for the rise in out-of-wedlock births. For the record, out-of-wedlock births total some 40% across the board and is just over 70% for black women.

Latest Statistics on Out-of-Wedlock Births | National Review Online

For five minutes they went on and on and not one of them ever made a single allusion to the decline of spirituality and the exodus away from God and his moral laws. Black FOX News anchor Harris Faulkner was prominent in the discussion.

Taking the highest figure - 72% for black women - is especially curious and disheartening since the overwhelming religious preference for blacks is Christianity. One might well argue they (and many non-blacks) don't practice what they believe - that fornication is a sin and that no (unrepentant) fornicators will enter the Kingdom of Heaven (1 Corinthians 6:9-10).

Many blacks, in particular Bill Cosby, have spoken out on the problems and in a number of cases have been attacked for their views. In churches Black, White, and Hispanic, preachers have also addressed the issue, though some have become politically correct to the point they ignore Biblical admonitions against shack up unions, fornication, and gay marriages.

Although there are other reasons as well for all this, I think there's no doubt that there's a spiritual decline in America. And it certainly doesn't appear to look to be in America's best interests.

Discussion -
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Logicman, how can you claim that out of wedlock births are due to a decline in spirituality, and in the next breath mention that the black community (which has probably the highest level of spirituality among ethnic groups) has the most out of wedlock births? That's not very... excuse the pun... logical.

African Americans and religion
 
Paleocon said:
Yet pregnancies out of wedlock have skyrocketed since those things became widely accessible.
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:eek:ff topic:

Oh brother. :roll:

Show us valid statistics to back that up (in an appropriate forum). Wanna look up another interesting claim? Abortion rates in the US have fallen at by a significant amount because of better birth control, ACCESS to birth control...and better sex ed, which I don't think is near what it could be in terms of the types of information kids should be getting.

BACK TO SPIRITUALITY....
 
Those of faith have some weird notion that "SPIRITUALITY" is their claim to fame. That's just not true.

Spirituality for many means feeling connected to their family, friends, community, country,...maybe the universe in some unorthodox mental/emotional way....while not having an affiliation with any religion or even believing in a supreme being.
 
TheDemSocialist said:
Wanna decrease the amount of out of wedlock children? Preach safe sex in schools, on demand access to birth control, condoms, morning after pill, and make abortions more easier to obtain. Bam.
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Chalk one up for the main idea of the thread.
 
Just a quick note about First Corinthians 6:9: the word "Pornoi" is plural of "Pornos." But this word meant the same as our word "prostitute." It does not indicate people who have sex without being married.
 
TheDemSocialist said:
Wanna decrease the amount of out of wedlock children? Preach safe sex in schools, on demand access to birth control, condoms, morning after pill, and make abortions more easier to obtain. Bam.
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Some girls want to have babies. They know the score--once you have a baby, you're eligible for HUD housing and other goodies. Several of the girls I knew well who went to school with my kid deliberately became pregnant so they could work the system. Some were quite successful at it too, the ones who also figured out that you have to actually kinda-sorta take care of your kid if you don't want CPS to step in. If this matters, they were all Anglos.
 
nota bene said:
Some girls want to have babies. They know the score--once you have a baby, you're eligible for HUD housing and other goodies. Several of the girls I knew well who went to school with my kid deliberately became pregnant so they could work the system. Some were quite successful at it too, the ones who also figured out that you have to actually kinda-sorta take care of your kid if you don't want CPS to step in.
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There will always be some of those no matter what.

If this matters, they were all Anglos.
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Nope doesnt matter at all.
 
zoetherat said:
Logicman, how can you claim that out of wedlock births are due to a decline in spirituality, and in the next breath mention that the black community (which has probably the highest level of spirituality among ethnic groups) has the most out of wedlock births? That's not very... excuse the pun... logical.

African Americans and religion
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Read what I wrote again.

Taking the highest figure - 72% for black women - is especially curious and disheartening since the overwhelming religious preference for blacks is Christianity. One might well argue they (and many non-blacks) don't practice what they believe - that fornication is a sin and that no (unrepentant) fornicators will enter the Kingdom of Heaven (1 Corinthians 6:9-10).

Crystal clear.
 
I read what you wrote the first time. You acknowledged that blacks have the most out of wedlock births and high religiosity, and then blamed out of wedlock births on low religiosity. Reasonable people let the evidence they have inform their conclusions.
 
Removable Mind said:
:eek:ff topic:

Oh brother. :roll:

Show us valid statistics to back that up (in an appropriate forum). Wanna look up another interesting claim? Abortion rates in the US have fallen at by a significant amount because of better birth control, ACCESS to birth control...and better sex ed, which I don't think is near what it could be in terms of the types of information kids should be getting.

BACK TO SPIRITUALITY....
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http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/databriefs/db18.pdf
 
zoetherat said:
I read what you wrote the first time. You acknowledged that blacks have the most out of wedlock births and high religiosity, and then blamed out of wedlock births on low religiosity. Reasonable people let the evidence they have inform their conclusions.
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The blame (when speaking about black Christians, as well as white Christians, etc.) is that they're not following the tenets of their faith. Fornication is a dire sin (1 Corinthians 6:9-10).
 
There are athletes that appear every year on football pre-shows that have ridiculous numbers of kids and do not pay child support while owning 200 pairs of shoes and numerous cars and they are all black. They will all be on the air again this year. It is accepted behavior. I also saw a show with several 11 and 12 year old black girls that said they wanted to be the first of the age group to get pregnant as it is now a status thing. Bottom line-like the American Indians that we cannot stop screwing, blacks were "freed" in the civil war, given legal civil liberties in the 60's and both are
 
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