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What Makes Something Sentient?

DashingAmerican

DashingAmerican

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Simple question. What makes something sentient? Is it simply consciousness or something more?
 
I think it was Heinlein, perhaps, who said that you'd know when man had created a sentient machine, because when told to do something it would ask "What's in it for me?" :mrgreen:
 
Well, what I'm getting at is at what level of "life" are things no longer sentient. Are dogs sentient? Trees? Bugs?
 
I would argue that it's the soul that gives sentience... The biochemistry is just to sustain life.

All life has a level of sentience... Even single celled organisms display greater intelligence than can be expected with the "processing power" of its cellular structure.
 
I think the definition of sentience is an awareness of other beings point of view and emotional state.

By this definition dogs and other social animals would be, to some extent, sentient.

I believe the Heinlein definition was of intelligence; "What's in it for me" and was about auto pilots taking over a man's job. The counter argument is that an auto pilot does not have to be creatively intelligent, just good at what it does. It does not have to understand other being's emotions.
 
BmanMcfly said:
I would argue that it's the soul that gives sentience... The biochemistry is just to sustain life.

All life has a level of sentience... Even single celled organisms display greater intelligence than can be expected with the "processing power" of its cellular structure.
Click to expand...

Do you have the slightest evidence for any of this or is it just something you have made up because you would like it to be so?
 
DashingAmerican said:
Simple question. What makes something sentient? Is it simply consciousness or something more?
Click to expand...
Some form of awareness of your surroundings plus the ability to make independent decisions on the basis of it.

Very similar to consciousness, which is really just the first part but they generally come as a package anyway.
 
Tim the plumber said:
Do you have the slightest evidence for any of this or is it just something you have made up because you would like it to be so?
Click to expand...

Yes, there is intelligence going on, even with single celled organisms...

There's one experiment that was done with a maze in a petri dish, where the bacteria would grow through the entire Maze, but if there was food placed at the entrance and exit, the bacteria would shrink to occupy the shortest path through the maze.

With plants, there's been some amazing stuff like plants sharing water through the root structures...

I could go on.

As far as the soul; strictly speaking the evidence is not really scientifically proven... However, the evidence is growing from many different perspectives, and even across these perspectives there is a level of consistent reporting.

There is the interpretation of quantum physics that's been called "biocentrism", that postulates that it's life that is primary in the universe, and the material universe is the secondary creation. (To give the simplest outline possible)

NDE research has produced consistent reports, though the people are not strictly dead.

Also, through hypnotherapy, some had been doing "past life" regression... which then shifted to asking those in hypnosis what happened to them in between lives... and the reports here are not only shockingly consistent amongst others undergoing hypnosis, but also consistent with all the NDE reports as well.

Let me know which section you most want me to delve into...
 
DashingAmerican said:
Simple question. What makes something sentient? Is it simply consciousness or something more?
Click to expand...

i would say it's an understanding that you exist, and being able to contrast that with not existing. a sense of self, so to speak.
 
The latin word that sentient comes from is sentire which means "to feel" or "to sense." Given that then any creature that feels or senses would be sentient.
 
First let me say, that I'm not necessarily certain souls exist.

Now, what I've gathered so far is that, more or less, awareness of life is what makes you sentient.

I saw a documentary, or part of a documentary that was showing how certain trees, in order to survive locusts and other bugs, can communicate with other trees to "warn" them of the danger. So in a sense, even if it is a very primitive one, trees have a certain will, if not for a singular tree, for the forest to survive. Thoughts?

BBC News - How plants warn each other of danger
 
Uh, generally sentience is taken to mean the capability to experience. So it's "less" than consciousness. Dogs, fish, insects etc are all sentient (or so we presume). They all experience or feel (via their sensory organs).
 
DashingAmerican said:
I saw a documentary, or part of a documentary that was showing how certain trees, in order to survive locusts and other bugs, can communicate with other trees to "warn" them of the danger. So in a sense, even if it is a very primitive one, trees have a certain will, if not for a singular tree, for the forest to survive. Thoughts?
Click to expand...
That’s not a conscious decision though, it’s a bio-chemical reaction so it doesn’t fall in to the scope of sentience. The trees can’t choose not to trigger the warning.

The other element is evolutionary. It isn’t trees developing such mechanism to survive, it’s trees that happen to develop them are more likely to survive and pass the trait on.
 
BmanMcfly said:
Yes, there is intelligence going on, even with single celled organisms...

There's one experiment that was done with a maze in a petri dish, where the bacteria would grow through the entire Maze, but if there was food placed at the entrance and exit, the bacteria would shrink to occupy the shortest path through the maze.
Click to expand...

That's called sent. The bacteria will grow towards the scent of the food.

With plants, there's been some amazing stuff like plants sharing water through the root structures...
Click to expand...

Yes, symbiosis is common in nature. What of it?

I could go on.
Click to expand...

But you would never present anything which showed the slightest evidence for the divine.

As far as the soul; strictly speaking the evidence is not really scientifically proven... However, the evidence is growing from many different perspectives, and even across these perspectives there is a level of consistent reporting.

There is the interpretation of quantum physics that's been called "biocentrism", that postulates that it's life that is primary in the universe, and the material universe is the secondary creation. (To give the simplest outline possible)
Click to expand...

That's a new on on me. I am confident that my very limited understanding of high level physics is better than yours.

I know that if I based any argument on quantum physics I would be a fool. The basic bottom line with such stuff is that we don't really have a good handle on it. Any argument based on it is subject to the next hypothesis coming out of the physics world showing that the old one was wrong. That would show that the argument was wrong. Silly thing to do.

NDE [Near Death Experience] research has produced consistent reports, though the people are not strictly dead.

Also, through hypnotherapy, some had been doing "past life" regression... which then shifted to asking those in hypnosis what happened to them in between lives... and the reports here are not only shockingly consistent amongst others undergoing hypnosis, but also consistent with all the NDE reports as well.
Click to expand...

The human brain reacts similarly when starved of oxygen. We experience similar visions. Similarish to the first time my hip dropped out of socket and I had to fight to avoid fainting fainting.

Let me know which section you most want me to delve into...
Click to expand...

?

Again, you have convinced yourself that you have won the argument. That clearly you know that I was going to have clear counter points and that you were never going to achieve that with such a poor understanding of the natural world shows that this was never your objective. The "sound" of the argument is what is important to you rather than the actual exchange of ideas.
 
DashingAmerican said:
First let me say, that I'm not necessarily certain souls exist.

Now, what I've gathered so far is that, more or less, awareness of life is what makes you sentient.

I saw a documentary, or part of a documentary that was showing how certain trees, in order to survive locusts and other bugs, can communicate with other trees to "warn" them of the danger. So in a sense, even if it is a very primitive one, trees have a certain will, if not for a singular tree, for the forest to survive. Thoughts?

BBC News - How plants warn each other of danger
Click to expand...

The question is do they have a choice about that? Do they always release these chemicals when they are attacked? The tree which does so will prevent the locust population from exploding as much. That is a direct benefit to it's self. There is an evolutionary pressure to select for trees which respond to these warning chemicals and to respond to them. No thinking is necessary in that loop.
 
`
Is being sentient equal to being "self aware?" To me, not always, nor is sentience always equal to sapience.
 
Tim the plumber said:
That's called sent. The bacteria will grow towards the scent of the food.



Yes, symbiosis is common in nature. What of it?



But you would never present anything which showed the slightest evidence for the divine.



That's a new on on me. I am confident that my very limited understanding of high level physics is better than yours.

I know that if I based any argument on quantum physics I would be a fool. The basic bottom line with such stuff is that we don't really have a good handle on it. Any argument based on it is subject to the next hypothesis coming out of the physics world showing that the old one was wrong. That would show that the argument was wrong. Silly thing to do.



The human brain reacts similarly when starved of oxygen. We experience similar visions. Similarish to the first time my hip dropped out of socket and I had to fight to avoid fainting fainting.



?

Again, you have convinced yourself that you have won the argument. That clearly you know that I was going to have clear counter points and that you were never going to achieve that with such a poor understanding of the natural world shows that this was never your objective. The "sound" of the argument is what is important to you rather than the actual exchange of ideas.
Click to expand...

Hang on, I made a number of claims, which, naturally, you asked IF there was evidence, so I just glossed over the evidence while detailing it's veracity.

Your knee jerk reaction here are the types of reactions I would expect from someone intent on "debunking" the idea.

Science, for generations has been antagonistic to spiritual concepts for a variety of reasons. It's just that now there are an increasing number of scientific ventures that are coming to prove spiritual concepts.

That's why I had left off the last post by asking which one of those examples you wanted to delve into more deeply. Though, if you don't come in with a bit of an open mind, you'll come up with something to not believe it. (Which is fine, I get it, for many there's nothing that would change a person's mind without a supernatural experience of their own)
 
BmanMcfly said:
Hang on, I made a number of claims, which, naturally, you asked IF there was evidence, so I just glossed over the evidence while detailing it's veracity.

Your knee jerk reaction here are the types of reactions I would expect from someone intent on "debunking" the idea.

Science, for generations has been antagonistic to spiritual concepts for a variety of reasons. It's just that now there are an increasing number of scientific ventures that are coming to prove spiritual concepts.

That's why I had left off the last post by asking which one of those examples you wanted to delve into more deeply. Though, if you don't come in with a bit of an open mind, you'll come up with something to not believe it. (Which is fine, I get it, for many there's nothing that would change a person's mind without a supernatural experience of their own)
Click to expand...

Wow!!

You post drivel with no evidence and expect not to be de-bunked?!!

It's a harsh environment here, where ideas are challenged. Unlucky.
 
Tim the plumber said:

Wow!!

You post drivel with no evidence and expect not to be de-bunked?!!

It's a harsh environment here, where ideas are challenged. Unlucky.
Click to expand...

Wow... your reaction is pretty funny here.

I really was just trying to get a baseline before I start digging up all the studies that have been done and making well polished arguments.

The nice thing is that I already know you are going to come at the topic with a closed minded skepticism, so, more or less no matter what you won't be convinced. That's OK though... The religious fanatics are stuck in a loop and are mostly wrong, so it's easy to take that nonsense and apply it.

That said, while I definitely do not have all the answers, I KNOW that life does not end when the body dies.
 
DashingAmerican said:
Simple question. What makes something sentient? Is it simply consciousness or something more?
Click to expand...

It's hard to say. I would think that intelligence, consciousness, and self-awareness are part of the equation though.
 
A sentient being is a spirit, or soul that may inhabit a body that is simply a biochemical machine. When the machine ceases to function, the spirit is still sentient.

Machines made by man can never be sentient, as they are simply machines, and not spirits.
 
Dittohead not! said:
A sentient being is a spirit, or soul that may inhabit a body that is simply a biochemical machine. When the machine ceases to function, the spirit is still sentient.

Machines made by man can never be sentient, as they are simply machines, and not spirits.
Click to expand...

What makes you certain souls exist? I don't necessarily think they do. I think that self awareness and knowing what life is and what that means makes something sentient.


Also let me say, what a privilege humans have to "decide" what is and isn't sentient.
 
DashingAmerican said:
What makes you certain souls exist? I don't necessarily think they do. I think that self awareness and knowing what life is and what that means makes something sentient.


Also let me say, what a privilege humans have to "decide" what is and isn't sentient.
Click to expand...

Let's just say, once you have some sort of paranormal experience, like seeing a recently dead relative sitting in their favourite seat where they would wind down after work. I didn't even make the connection of what I saw until much later when another situation occurred that brought the first incident into a new light and made me realize that it hadn't just been my eyes playing tricks on me.


I don't see it as a decision, but that sentience would be expressed by certain traits, we can study life forms looking for those traits and determine that the life form is sentient.
 
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