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Evidence that Man wrote the Bible, not God.

Kal'Stang

Kal'Stang

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We all know today that there is no such thing as magic and there never has been. Despite what people believed 2000 years ago or even 200 years ago. And yet the bible, both new and old, mentions magic several times either by mentioning certain people (Egypts Pharoh who's magicians couldn't tell him the meaning of his dreams so he called for Joseph for instance) or by simply saying to not associate with such as practice "sorcery".

Why would God, who people say wrote the bible even mention sorcery if such a thing does not exist?

49 Bible Verses about Magic
 
Kal'Stang said:
We all know today that there is no such thing as magic and there never has been. Despite what people believed 2000 years ago or even 200 years ago. And yet the bible, both new and old, mentions magic several times either by mentioning certain people (Egypts Pharoh who's magicians couldn't tell him the meaning of his dreams so he called for Joseph for instance) or by simply saying to not associate with such as practice "sorcery".

Why would God, who people say wrote the bible even mention sorcery if such a thing does not exist?

49 Bible Verses about Magic
Click to expand...



Because your first sentence is incorrect.
 
Kal'Stang said:
Then I'm sure you can prove to me that there is actual magic in the world. ;)
Click to expand...


Nope.


Wasn't really my point anyway.


My point is that you can't prove there was NEVER such a thing in the world... can you?
 
Kal'Stang said:
We all know today that there is no such thing as magic and there never has been. Despite what people believed 2000 years ago or even 200 years ago. And yet the bible, both new and old, mentions magic several times either by mentioning certain people (Egypts Pharoh who's magicians couldn't tell him the meaning of his dreams so he called for Joseph for instance) or by simply saying to not associate with such as practice "sorcery".

Why would God, who people say wrote the bible even mention sorcery if such a thing does not exist?

49 Bible Verses about Magic
Click to expand...

Who says God wrote the Bible? There are 30 writers of the Old Testament and 10 writers of the New.
 
And on top of that, even if it was fake, it was typically associated with imploring aid from supernatural beings that were not God, therefore a form of idolatry.
 
Kal'Stang said:
Then I'm sure you can prove to me that there is actual magic in the world. ;)
Click to expand...

It isn't "magic". It's a difference in the manner in which some people are able to perceive and understand what is around them. Some of us who have religious inclinations believe that there is more to reality than what we can sense with the five senses, because we ourselves have experienced it. It is nothing that can be proven to you (or anyone else), but we don't all perceive the same reality, though most of us would be considered rational human beings.
 
Don't think of it terms of things like card tricks or sawing people in half. The "magic" would involve communication with demonic spirits.
 
Goshin said:
Nope.


Wasn't really my point anyway.


My point is that you can't prove there was NEVER such a thing in the world... can you?
Click to expand...

You can't prove a negative. You can only prove a positive. So, can you prove to me that magic exists now or ever?
 
Kal'Stang said:
You can't prove a negative. You can only prove a positive. So, can you prove to me that magic exists now or ever?
Click to expand...



Let me ask you a question first. Do you believe life is simply a matter of the observable material universe, or that there is a spiritual, supernatural component?
 
MaggieD said:
Who says God wrote the Bible? There are 30 writers of the Old Testament and 10 writers of the New.
Click to expand...

Ok, "Inspired" by God. Either God wrote it and its all true, or it was "inspired" and man wrote it. David Eddings was inspired to write the Belgariad series...doesn't mean that its true, but it does mean that he, a man, wrote it.
 
Goshin said:
And on top of that, even if it was fake, it was typically associated with imploring aid from supernatural beings that were not God, therefore a form of idolatry.
Click to expand...

Actually sorcery, which is mentioned in the bible has no idoltry at all as there was no imploring of any god or being. Sorcery is the gather of or the using of natural elements.
 
Kal'Stang said:
Actually sorcery, which is mentioned in the bible has no idoltry at all as there was no imploring of any god or being. Sorcery is the gather of or the using of natural elements.
Click to expand...


Has that always been the definition of it? It was the English word chosen to translate the Greek or Hebrew word, but was that its meaning then? And "familiar spirits" are often associated with the prohibitions on "sorcery".
 
Goshin said:
Let me ask you a question first. Do you believe life is simply a matter of the observable material universe, or that there is a spiritual, supernatural component?
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I fully believe in God. I just don't believe that He wrote the Bible. Man did. Particularly greedy, power hungry men.
 
Kal'Stang said:
I fully believe in God. I just don't believe that He wrote the Bible. Man did. Particularly greedy, power hungry men.
Click to expand...



If you fully believe in God, then you believe there is a spiritual, supernatural component to the universe.

How then do you assert with absolute certainty that there is not and never has been "magic"... that is to say, attempts by human beings to engage the supernatural component of the universe through ritual means?



Edited to add: think on that a bit. Past my bedtime. :)
 
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lizzie said:
It isn't "magic". It's a difference in the manner in which some people are able to perceive and understand what is around them. Some of us who have religious inclinations believe that there is more to reality than what we can sense with the five senses, because we ourselves have experienced it. It is nothing that can be proven to you (or anyone else), but we don't all perceive the same reality, though most of us would be considered rational human beings.
Click to expand...
You believe there is more "out there" that cannot be sensed by the five senses, because you've personally sensed it.



...
 
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Kal'Stang said:
I fully believe in God. I just don't believe that He wrote the Bible. Man did. Particularly greedy, power hungry men.
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I think that some powerful men in the early Christian church may have done some editing, but I don't believe the original authors did anything besides write what they felt God inspired them to do.
 
Kal'Stang said:
I fully believe in God. I just don't believe that He wrote the Bible. Man did. Particularly greedy, power hungry men.
Click to expand...

That's my problem, I believe the bible to be a work of fiction. But I hate to think this is all there is. Life sucks, I want an afterlife.
I've had a miracle happen. Someone caught me and saved me from falling off of a cliff that wasn't there before I fell at a church outing. I've also met real psychics who could really read your mind. At least one read mine pretty well where I didn't need to speak in order to have a conversation with him. So there is more out there than this. But how much more?
 
Goshin said:
Has that always been the definition of it? It was the English word chosen to translate the Greek or Hebrew word, but was that its meaning then? And "familiar spirits" are often associated with the prohibitions on "sorcery".
Click to expand...

If the words do not mean the same now as they did back then, then the bible is not accurate, which again, if God had written it, inspired it, guided peoples hands in it, it would be accurate. So...which is it? Is the bible accurate now and as such written by God? Or was it written by man and the meaning of the words have changed? Or do you believe that God does not guide the writing of the Bible anymore?

Also, sorcery is not associated with spirits, just energy that is around us.

Goshin said:
If you fully believe in God, then you believe there is a spiritual, supernatural component to the universe.

How then do you assert with absolute certainty that there is not and never has been "magic"... that is to say, attempts by human beings to engage the supernatural component of the universe through ritual means?



Edited to add: think on that a bit. Past my bedtime. :)
Click to expand...

Magic is observable, it has effects which can be seen, felt, tasted, and even smelled. One does not have to believe in both God and magic. The two are mutally exclusive. Now, I've answered your question, can you answer mine?
 
Goshin said:
My point is that you can't prove there was NEVER such a thing in the world... can you?
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That's okay. Anyone who thinks magic did exist has the burden of proof on them.

Goshin said:
And on top of that, even if it was fake, it was typically associated with imploring aid from supernatural beings that were not God, therefore a form of idolatry.
Click to expand...

This is basically just an attempt to invalidate other people's religions. It's prayer when you do it, but witchcraft when a Wiccan does it, and blasphemy when a Satanist does it.

lizzie said:
It isn't "magic". It's a difference in the manner in which some people are able to perceive and understand what is around them. Some of us who have religious inclinations believe that there is more to reality than what we can sense with the five senses, because we ourselves have experienced it. It is nothing that can be proven to you (or anyone else), but we don't all perceive the same reality, though most of us would be considered rational human beings.
Click to expand...

There is only one reality. If you're perceiving something that no one else is, you're far more likely mistaken or crazy than tapping into some higher existence. Apply some Occam's Razor.

Also, how exactly did you observe this? Do you have some kind of ESP? What makes you think you have greater abilities of perception than others?

Goshin said:
Let me ask you a question first. Do you believe life is simply a matter of the observable material universe, or that there is a spiritual, supernatural component?
Click to expand...

There is no credible evidence to suggest the latter.

Kal'Stang said:
Ok, "Inspired" by God. Either God wrote it and its all true, or it was "inspired" and man wrote it. David Eddings was inspired to write the Belgariad series...doesn't mean that its true, but it does mean that he, a man, wrote it.
Click to expand...

Bonus points for Belgariad.

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There is a lot of literary evidence to demonstrate who wrote western scripture and when. There is also evidence, both in the scripture and in other writings, showing various revisions of them. There are even modern versions that we have right now that are expressly written by conservative religious factions to justify their political platforms.

The glaring flaws, clear inspiration and outright plagiarism from older myths, and the complete lack of any knowledge beyond what the writers' civilizations already possessed also demonstrate a very human origin. These same elements are just as true for western monotheistic myths as they are for other cultures' myths.
 
lizzie said:
I think that some powerful men in the early Christian church may have done some editing, but I don't believe the original authors did anything besides write what they felt God inspired them to do.
Click to expand...

So what was edited? What wasn't? What was cut? What wasn't? The Bible itself was written by those powerful men, supposedly using accounts written by other men. Who's what where? Know what I mean?
 
 
Paschendale said:
Kal'Stang said:
Ok, "Inspired" by God. Either God wrote it and its all true, or it was "inspired" and man wrote it. David Eddings was inspired to write the Belgariad series...doesn't mean that its true, but it does mean that he, a man, wrote it.
Click to expand...

Bonus points for Belgariad.
Click to expand...

My favorite series. :D
 
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