• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!
  • Welcome to our archives. No new posts are allowed here.

Nothing should exist.

ttwtt78640 said:
Or everything has always existed; it simply changes form/state. The universe is simply an infinite cycle alternating between the big bang, expansion and (eventually) the big shrink which results in the next big bang. ;)
Click to expand...

This is far more likely under Occam's Razor than a magical super being always existing.

Any time an argument relies on magic, it basically flunks the Razor.
 
Your Star said:
Not knowing doesn't make it anti-science.
Click to expand...

But not knowing and assuming magic does make one very immature.

If we apply this to a far more localized argument, most people would consider a microwave magic because they don't know how it works. Does anyone think that's a reasonable belief to have? So why would we deem it acceptable to hold the same belief, but simply on a larger scale?

Ultimately, everyone beliefs in what religious/spiritual/lack of believe because they want to.
 
MrVicchio said:
Something, from nothing. Or "always was something". Neither make much sense, but one obviously was because we exist.
Click to expand...

Subatomic particles appear from nothing in laboratory experiments.

Again, simply because we don't know doesn't equate to Goddidit.

No one is buying your poorly thought out trap and everyone sees through the charade.
 
MrVicchio said:
Think about that for a brief moment. NOTHING SHOULD EXIST. Everything, came from nothing.

That, imho, is the most mind blowing, most anti-science reality of everything. It should NOT BE.

It's honestly, irreconcilable with all known science. From the lowliest quark to massive galactic clusters, none of it should be. Reality shouldn't be. Nothingness should have been.
Click to expand...

MrVicchio said:
Uhm, were did everything come from? Answer? Nothing. It didn't just happen. That's impossible. It did, but that's aside the point.
Click to expand...

Here's the thing about science. Science is continually advancing and evolving in terms of it's base of knowledge. Saying that "we don't know how something happened" or "there are gaps in our knowledge about certain phenomenon" is NOT a disproval of science, it is the norm in science. Science constantly evolves in light of new evidence (based on empiricism and observation) and is not afraid to say that it does not yet have the answers to everything.

So what in your words you describe as "everything coming from nothing" is not anti-science. It is merely an admittance that we have a working theory about what happened but we don't know everything about what happened. What IS anti-science is saying that "I don't know how this happened, therefore I'm going to make some **** up about a bearded sky man who created everything from nothing and that explanation makes way more sense yo." Not to mention that if everything came from nothing and therefore God is responsible, how do you explain where God came from and who created God? Or is your answer just the typical "I don't know therefore alpha and omega"?
 
Last edited:
obvious Child said:
Subatomic particles appear from nothing in laboratory experiments.

Again, simply because we don't know doesn't equate to Goddidit.

No one is buying your poorly thought out trap and everyone sees through the charade.
Click to expand...

I never once brought GOD into this. The only people doing so are anti-religious bigots. This is the philosophy section, not religion. You fail miserably.
 
StillBallin75 said:
Here's the thing about science. Science is continually advancing and evolving in terms of it's base of knowledge. Saying that "we don't know how something happened" or "there are gaps in our knowledge about certain phenomenon" is NOT a disproval of science, it is the norm in science. Science constantly evolves in light of new evidence (based on empiricism and observation) and is not afraid to say that it does not yet have the answers to everything.

So what in your words you describe as "everything coming from nothing" is not anti-science. It is merely an admittance that we have a working theory about what happened but we don't know everything about what happened. What IS anti-science is saying that "I don't know how this happened, therefore I'm going to make some **** up about a bearded sky man who created everything from nothing and that explanation makes way more sense yo." Not to mention that if everything came from nothing and therefore God is responsible, how do you explain where God came from and who created God? Or is your answer just the typical "I don't know therefore alpha and omega"?
Click to expand...

What the **** is with you people and the God strawman argument? I'm sorry I used the term "ANTI-SCIENCE" I should have said "unscientific" but something tells me that wouldn't have mattered to you people.

This is the philosophy forum, you wanna jerk off ranting against God, go to the religious forum
 
obvious Child said:
Uh huh. Do you think anyone isn't able to read the subtext?

You're fooling no one.
Click to expand...

No, you're projecting your own hate into something, its a failing you have in pretty much each and every post you ever make about anything. You come in, have your own preconceived notions, create strawman arguments, and then claim you're right about something you created in the argument.

I never once referenced God, religion, or anything. I'm focused on the concept of reality even EXISTING.

It either always was, which IMHO is impossible or it came into being from nothing, equally impossible. The CONCEPT of either being true is staggering. As both concepts are equally impossible, however one is correct. Which in and of itself, is a mind blowing concept.

You are reading more into my comments then are there, interjecting your own inability to grasp the concept of the discussion and proving that a poor debate member you are.

So concede that I did NOT imply, suggest or bring God into this conversation, or go away (in effect the same thing) or you can keep failing. Your choice, choose wisely.
 
This is kind of a lame attempt to prove the distance of God. It won't work. From either perspective, something had to come from nothing. Either God made something out of nothing or the universe made something out of nothing. We don't know what occurred either way. I believe in God, but I don't believe he "magiced" the universe into existence.
 
StillBallin75 said:
Here's the thing about science. Science is continually advancing and evolving in terms of it's base of knowledge. Saying that "we don't know how something happened" or "there are gaps in our knowledge about certain phenomenon" is NOT a disproval of science, it is the norm in science. Science constantly evolves in light of new evidence (based on empiricism and observation) and is not afraid to say that it does not yet have the answers to everything.

So what in your words you describe as "everything coming from nothing" is not anti-science. It is merely an admittance that we have a working theory about what happened but we don't know everything about what happened. What IS anti-science is saying that "I don't know how this happened, therefore I'm going to make some **** up about a bearded sky man who created everything from nothing and that explanation makes way more sense yo." Not to mention that if everything came from nothing and therefore God is responsible, how do you explain where God came from and who created God? Or is your answer just the typical "I don't know therefore alpha and omega"?
Click to expand...

The creation out of nothing is a false teaching of a religious world relying on flawed philosophers without divine revelation imho. The human species are eternal creatures, and if you understand what we are, and what light/intelligence becomes in his or her infinite fullness, then "the bearded sky man" makes a lot of sense.
 
Goshin said:
It would be more precise to say that science is concerned with the what and the how, while religion is concerned with the "why".
Click to expand...

That's pretty bland. At best, religion is concerned with who. Scientists ask every single day why things happen. Why do apples fall from trees? Why are stars hot? Why are continents shaped the way they are? Why aren't dinosaurs around today? So far, none of those questions have been answered by "Because God wanted it that way".

Science doesn't need a "who" and can perfectly explain life through why, what and how. It'll only be a matter of time before it can explain what came before the big bang and then where will the religious be? Trying to claim that whatever came before the big bang was also a deity's word. When whatever came before what came before the big bang is found, they'll claim that was also part of god's work. They'll never explain the things that science can: Why, how or what but they'll always keep asking: "Who done it?"
 
Last edited:
MrVicchio said:
This is the philosophy forum, you wanna jerk off ranting against God, go to the religious forum
Click to expand...

We're not allowed to do that there. The philosophy forum was created so people could rage about God.

But to your OP, I don't believe any scientist has ever claimed the universe was made from nothing, so it's a false argument.
 
Goshin said:
Right... so where did that energy come from? :)
Click to expand...

It has always been there---think of it as God, just a whole lot less personable.
 
spud_meister said:
We're not allowed to do that there. The philosophy forum was created so people could rage about God.

But to your OP, I don't believe any scientist has ever claimed the universe was made from nothing, so it's a false argument.
Click to expand...
How the Universe Came from Nothing | IdeaFeed | Big Think

There's no such thing as a free lunch, or so the saying goes, but that may not be true on the grandest, cosmic scale. Many physicists now believe that the universe arose out of nothingness during the Big Bang which means that nothing must have somehow turned into something. How could that be possible?
Click to expand...
New Scientist TV: How the universe appeared from nothing
 
Simple; from nothingness came somethingness. In a trillionth of a micro second there was something-an element from which all life came to be.
Because trying to answer "what was before the start of "big bang' as it is incorrectly referred to is too much for anyone to answer my theory is there was a previous universe that imploded then exploded.............but what was before THAT universe and the one before that and the one before that and the one before that!?
 
Last edited:
Hatuey said:
That's pretty bland. At best, religion is concerned with who. Scientists ask every single day why things happen. Why do apples fall from trees? Why are stars hot? Why are continents shaped the way they are? Why aren't dinosaurs around today? So far, none of those questions have been answered by "Because God wanted it that way".

Science doesn't need a "who" and can perfectly explain life through why, what and how. It'll only be a matter of time before it can explain what came before the big bang and then where will the religious be? Trying to claim that whatever came before the big bang was also a deity's word. When whatever came before what came before the big bang is found, they'll claim that was also part of god's work. They'll never explain the things that science can: Why, how or what but they'll always keep asking: "Who done it?"
Click to expand...

There is no conflict between true science and true religion. Science just studies God's creations. If you think science has proven that the beauty and order found among the chaos is random, that is a bigger leap of faith than belief in a designer.
 
MrVicchio said:
No, you're projecting your own hate into something, its a failing you have in pretty much each and every post you ever make about anything. You come in, have your own preconceived notions, create strawman arguments, and then claim you're right about something you created in the argument.
Click to expand...

Uh Huh. So you're in no way at all making ANY subtextual claim to the supernatural?

Again, do you think anyone is buying your argument?

I never once referenced God, religion, or anything. I'm focused on the concept of reality even EXISTING.
Click to expand...

You don't have to explicitly argue it. But you are use the exact same arguments that people who argue the existence of God do on the basis of origin. Again, this is why no one is buying your trap.

It either always was, which IMHO is impossible or it came into being from nothing, equally impossible. The CONCEPT of either being true is staggering. As both concepts are equally impossible, however one is correct. Which in and of itself, is a mind blowing concept.
Click to expand...

Again, subatomic particles appear from nowhere. You are simply uneducated and ignorant.

You are reading more into my comments then are there, interjecting your own inability to grasp the concept of the discussion and proving that a poor debate member you are.

So concede that I did NOT imply, suggest or bring God into this conversation, or go away (in effect the same thing) or you can keep failing. Your choice, choose wisely.
Click to expand...

And you've been reported.
 
MrVicchio said:
Think about that for a brief moment. NOTHING SHOULD EXIST. Everything, came from nothing.

That, imho, is the most mind blowing, most anti-science reality of everything. It should NOT BE.

It's honestly, irreconcilable with all known science. From the lowliest quark to massive galactic clusters, none of it should be. Reality shouldn't be. Nothingness should have been.
Click to expand...

Dark matter is nothing. Science doesn't know what dark matter or dark energy is. All they know is that it exists because they can observe it's effects on time, space and matter in much the same way they know that gravity exists. But science still doesn't know what gravity is or where it came from, either. Gravity looks a lot like 'nothing". So what is gravity?


So your premise is that because science can't explain what they don't know then all science is bogus? Is that what you're trying to claim?
 
Last edited:
Moot said:
Dark matter is nothing. Science doesn't know what dark matter or dark energy is. All they know is that it exists because they can observe it's effects on time, space and matter in much the same way they know that gravity exists. But science still doesn't know what gravity is or where it came from, either. Gravity looks a lot like 'nothing". So what is gravity?


So your premise is that because science can't explain what they don't know then all science is bogus? Is that what you're trying to claim?
Click to expand...
No no no no no no.


Im sayiny, the very fact any exists is amazing. Think about where everything came from! So much stuff that either always was, which boggles the mind, or came from nothing.... which is amazingly mind blowing as well
 
MrVicchio said:
No no no no no no.


Im sayiny, the very fact any exists is amazing. Think about where everything came from! So much stuff that either always was, which boggles the mind, or came from nothing.... which is amazingly mind blowing as well
Click to expand...

Can you imagine all the matter in the universe packed into a single atom?
 
Moot said:
Can you imagine all the matter in the universe packed into a single atom?
Click to expand...
yes. I can imagine that. I believe in a cyclical repeating universe of big bangs and end in massive black holes that recycle it all. But the origination of it all, that is the elusive one for me. Always there or sprung from nothingness.
 
MrVicchio said:
yes. I can imagine that. I believe in a cyclical repeating universe of big bangs and end in massive black holes that recycle it all. But the origination of it all, that is the elusive one for me. Always there or sprung from nothingness.
Click to expand...

It's elusive to everyone and anyone who tells you they know the origination of it all are deceivers. Einsteins theory of general relativity is probably the closet we will ever get to understanding the origination of it all. The theory can explain almost everything in the universe right up to the point of singularity aka the big bang...but it can't explain what the big bang actually was or what caused it or what existed before it. Nor can it explain gravity. But not for lack of trying....perhaps if and when they come up with a single theory that can explain everything aka Theory of Everything....then we might know.
 
Last edited:
laska said:
There is no conflict between true science and true religion. Science just studies God's creations. If you think science has proven that the beauty and order found among the chaos is random, that is a bigger leap of faith than belief in a designer.
Click to expand...

Only none of it can be proven to be "God's creation" so science just studies the known universe. There is a reason cryptozoologists get laughed at.
 
MrVicchio said:
Think about that for a brief moment. NOTHING SHOULD EXIST. Everything, came from nothing.

That, imho, is the most mind blowing, most anti-science reality of everything. It should NOT BE.

It's honestly, irreconcilable with all known science. From the lowliest quark to massive galactic clusters, none of it should be. Reality shouldn't be. Nothingness should have been.
Click to expand...

It's actually not irreconcilable for anyone with any understanding of science, which you obviously do not have. Instead it's just another propaganda hit piece by the anti-intellectuals.

First off, it's not known where everything came from, so it's not a "nothing", secondly, "nothing" is completely scientifically plausible it's called vacuum genesis. It's predictions currently match all current measurements of the geometry of the Universe as well.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom