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Nothing should exist.

MrVicchio said:
Who did that??
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Religionists. You can't stand the fact that we don't know something so you have to fill it with your own narrative so you can sleep at night.

What's wrong with simply saying "nobody knows"? How the universe was created has absolutely no relevance to anyone's life in any way, shape or form.
 
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It depends on one's perspective.

1) The bible says, and still many cosmologists agree, that in the beginning, there was nothing. In this case, "nothing" is the complete anything: No time/space, no weak/strong force, no gravity...nothing. It is a nothing so incomprehensible it staggers the mind.

2) Now there are those who string theorists who believe "something" did exist before the "big bang" or "singularity". They believe that the cosmos we live in was actually created by the cyclical trillion-year collision of two universes (which they define as three-dimensional branes plus time) that were attracted toward each other by the leaking of gravity out of one of the universes. M-Theory confirms this. So in this respect "nothing" does not come into play.

I find both, and other related theories as plausible.
 
RabidAlpaca said:
Religionists. You can't stand the fact that we don't know something so you have to fill it with your own narrative so you can sleep at night.

What's wrong with simply saying "nobody knows"? How the universe was created has absolutely no relevance to anyone's life in any way, shape or form.
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I didn't bring religion into this, so stop. You want to go tilt at that windmill buddy, that's find don't quote me and hammer on about religion like I brought that to this discussion.
 
MrVicchio said:
I didn't bring religion into this, so stop. You want to go tilt at that windmill buddy, that's find don't quote me and hammer on about religion like I brought that to this discussion.
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You say that nothing should exist.

1 How do you know?

2 You don't know.

3 Neither does anybody else.

4 If you want to approach this question of the origin of the universe you will need to get very good at physics. Very very good. I do not expect you to be clever enough to get that good. The reason I say this is because there are a lot of people who do physics to some degree at school and the cleverest of them go off and do it at university. Of these the very cleverest do it more after university. The best of these get to be professors. They don't know the answer at the moment. They are trying to understand it. I am not clever enough to approach the question.

5 You don't need to worry about it, just like the rest of us.
 
MrVicchio said:
Think about that for a brief moment. NOTHING SHOULD EXIST. Everything, came from nothing.

That, imho, is the most mind blowing, most anti-science reality of everything. It should NOT BE.

It's honestly, irreconcilable with all known science. From the lowliest quark to massive galactic clusters, none of it should be. Reality shouldn't be. Nothingness should have been.
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Why do you assume that a state of nothingness should have been?
 
Rainman05 said:
Well whoever can answer that question wins the grand prize. It's easy to answer "god" or some idea of deity, and that may still turn out to be the correct answer in the end but it is a lazy answer. Far more exciting and thought provoking to actually see if we can't find a response which we can understand with our own minds.

But strictly on the idea that something came out of nothing is wrong. That something that everything came out of was a very condensed, probably very small container of energy that exploded and in time stuff formed. Because energy and mass are transmutable according to E = m * c ^ 2. Ofc, it takes a lot of energy to create a bit of mass because c is a very large number, 300.000.000 in modulus or 300.000km/s with what it represents.
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Yes, I have studied this subject. Just as the complete conversion of a small amount of matter to energy would release tremendous energy, the creation (from energy) of even a small blob of matter would require more energy than the entire human race produces. It is quite mind-boggling the energy density that must have been present to create all matter in the universe.

Certainly efforts to understand the Bang and what came before are worthy and interesting scientific pursuits. I do like to point out that no matter how deeply we delve, however, there always seems to be yet another layer we struggle to comprehend.

At some point all those elephants holding up the world are standing on nothing... metaphorically speaking.

Science asks what and how and how much.... religion asks "why".
 
tecoyah said:
THAT...is one of the things we are tying to figure out.

The difference I see in this would that science freely admits it does not know a thing, while religion claims it does... regardless of what the thing might be.
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It would be more precise to say that science is concerned with the what and the how, while religion is concerned with the "why".
 
MrVicchio said:
Think about that for a brief moment. NOTHING SHOULD EXIST. Everything, came from nothing.

That, imho, is the most mind blowing, most anti-science reality of everything. It should NOT BE.

It's honestly, irreconcilable with all known science. From the lowliest quark to massive galactic clusters, none of it should be. Reality shouldn't be. Nothingness should have been.
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69c.png
 
MrVicchio said:
Think about that for a brief moment. NOTHING SHOULD EXIST. Everything, came from nothing.

That, imho, is the most mind blowing, most anti-science reality of everything. It should NOT BE.

It's honestly, irreconcilable with all known science. From the lowliest quark to massive galactic clusters, none of it should be. Reality shouldn't be. Nothingness should have been.
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StillBallin75 said:
Where is this claim coming from and what does it have to do with science/anti-science?
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This is the "I don't understand it, therefore its not real" argument.
 
Goshin said:
Yes, I have studied this subject. Just as the complete conversion of a small amount of matter to energy would release tremendous energy, the creation (from energy) of even a small blob of matter would require more energy than the entire human race produces. It is quite mind-boggling the energy density that must have been present to create all matter in the universe.

Certainly efforts to understand the Bang and what came before are worthy and interesting scientific pursuits. I do like to point out that no matter how deeply we delve, however, there always seems to be yet another layer we struggle to comprehend.

At some point all those elephants holding up the world are standing on nothing... metaphorically speaking.

Science asks what and how and how much.... religion asks "why".
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It could be that the universe is an entire repeated event of the universe expanding and collapsing on itself. Now it's expanding as the research shows, stars are moving further and further apart. Maybe in X years it will start moving closer and closer until it collapses in on itself and forms whatever that singularity was... then blows up and expands again, etc. Like one of those things that you do arms exercises with -> you expand them, then they draw back together... then you expand them again.

Energy cannot be created or destroyed so therefore it stands to reason that it'll always be the same amount of energy in every iteration.

It's kind of depressing knowing that no matter what, we'll eventually die off as a species. If not in 2029 when there is a 2.7% chance that Apophis will hit us then in 2040 when there is another one that may have our number and if not then... and if we manage to get off from these 2 maybe there'll be another one. The universe is out to get us :p
 
digsbe said:
Basically, it's the premise that nothing happened to nothing and then matter/energy came about and exploded into everything for no reason.

There is no evidence to say that matter has always existed and there is no proper explanation for how before the universe matter and energy came to be.
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Correct, and equally no evidence that god always existed, and so the proper response is "we don't know", not "goddidit".
 
There are numerous theories at present that disagree with the OP. First are multiverse theories or recurring universe theories, which would posit something predating this universe and so it didn't come from nothing. Second are insights about nothing itself, suggesting that "nothing" is a state that naturally attempts to fill itself with something.

Not only do we have only a rough understanding of what "nothing" really is, but there is really no evidence to support the idea that matter and energy "should not" exist. Nor, of course, are things "just happening" impossible. We don't really know what's impossible on the cosmic or molecular scales.

But, of course, if this thread were asking questions about science, rather than attempting to discredit science in favor of mythology, it would be in the science section, not the philosophy one.
 
MrVicchio said:
Uhm, were did everything come from? Answer? Nothing. It didn't just happen. That's impossible. It did, but that's aside the point.
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My view is that there was never a nothing. There has always been "something".
 
Muhammed said:
Why do you assume that a state of nothingness should have been?
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How does something, come from nothing?

Time, Space, Matter, Energy. These are all "something". Where did any of that something come from? ergo nothing should exist, except it does.


Which is mind boggling.
 
MrVicchio said:
How does something, come from nothing?
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It doesn't.

MrVicchio said:
Time, Space, Matter, Energy. These are all "something". Where did any of that something come from?
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Why would assume the state of nothing is the way it should be? How could there there ever be a state of nothing? You make no sense from a logical standpoint. How could there have ever been nothing when that is impossible?

It not too hard to understand if you think logically.

We know that there is something and also know that something does not come from nothing. Therefore, logically we can come to the conclusion that there was always something.

Now, I challenge you to come up with a logical argument to back up your claim that there was ever nothing.
 
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Muhammed said:
It doesn't

Why would it have to come from nothing? You make no sense from a scientific standpoint. How could there have ever been nothing when that is impossible?

It not too hard to understand if you think logically.

There is something and something does not come from nothing. Therefore there was always something.
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Logically, nothing should exist. Basically the entire universe sprung into being from nothingness. I get that it does thus I'm wrong, I get THAT reality. But the reality that everything either always was, which is absurd, or came from nothing is equally absurd.
 
LDS scriptures teach that matter is eternal and has always existed in some form or another. There is no such thing as something coming from nothing. I also think it is possible that there are infinite universes and the beginning they exist like seeds made up of eternal matter.
 
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I like Sal Khan's theory that evolution fits quite well with a God and Creation.

 
MrVicchio said:
Logically, nothing should exist.
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Can you explain the logical reasoning that you use to come to that conclusion?

Also, explain the logical reasoning that you used to come to the conclusion that there was ever a state of nothingness.
 
Muhammed said:
Can you explain the logical reasoning that you use to come to that conclusion?

Also, explain the logical reasoning that you used to come to the conclusion that there was ever a state of nothingness.
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Something, from nothing. Or "always was something". Neither make much sense, but one obviously was because we exist.
 
laska said:
LDS scriptures teach that matter is eternal and has always existed in some form or another.
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Of course the universe is eternal. That makes logical sense. For anyone to convince me that it is not eternal they would have to come up with a reasoned logical argument explaining how it is at least possible for it not to be eternal.

laska said:
I also think it is possible that there are infinite universes
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Now that makes no sense. The universe is everything that exists anywhere.

If it exists then by definition it is part of the universe.
 
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Muhammed said:
Now that makes no sense. The universe is everything that exists anywhere.

If it exists then by definition it is part of the universe.
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The multiverse.

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Really I am CLUELESS about science.
 

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