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Are these Famous people in Heaven, or Hell??

Dragonfly

Dragonfly

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Based on your beliefs and understandings of "the rules"....where do you think the "souls" of these famous people were sent?

Jimi Hendrix
John Bonham
Stevie Ray Vaughn
Janis Joplin
Kurt Cobain
Marilyn Monroe
Elvis Presley
George Carlin
Freddie Mercury


(to anyone who wishes, feel free to ask about other famous people and where their "souls" may have been sent - I know the list could get quite long)

If you had to guess - where are their "souls"?
 
Dragonfly said:
Based on your beliefs and understandings of "the rules"....where do you think the "souls" of these famous people were sent?

Jimi Hendrix
"?
Click to expand...

Electric Ladyland, of course!
 
Dragonfly said:
Based on your beliefs and understandings of "the rules"....where do you think the "souls" of these famous people were sent?

Jimi Hendrix
John Bonham
Stevie Ray Vaughn
Janis Joplin
Kurt Cobain
Marilyn Monroe
Elvis Presley
George Carlin
Freddie Mercury


(to anyone who wishes, feel free to ask about other famous people and where their "souls" may have been sent - I know the list could get quite long)

If you had to guess - where are their "souls"?
Click to expand...

Barring some incredible death bed change of heart, all of them fall pretty squarely in the "probably not" category.

And, really? You even have to ask about George Carlin? wtf.gif
 
Dragonfly said:
"probably not" what???? Not in Hell?


So where is George Carlin's soul?
Click to expand...

It isn't possible to say with any degree of certainty, because we have no way of knowing just how strict or merciful God's criteria might ultimately happen to be.

However, if anyone on that list were likely to wind up in Hell, it would be Carlin. The man hated God and religion in general.

Barring some kind of miraculous death bed conversion, there isn't any way he could have wound up in heaven. He simply didn't want to go. :shrug:
 
Gathomas88 said:
It isn't possible to say with any degree of certainty, because we have no way of knowing just how strict or merciful God's criteria might ultimately happen to be.

However, if anyone on that list were likely to wind up in Hell, it would be Carlin. The man hated God and religion in general.

Barring some kind of miraculous death bed conversion, there isn't any way he could have wound up in heaven. He simply didn't want to go. :shrug:
Click to expand...

Were his comments on such things purely a comedy routine? Or heartfelt honest opinions?

Carlin made people laugh. He made them happy. He was an entertainer.

Something that's highly worthy.

Why should he be excluded?
 
Dragonfly said:
Based on your beliefs and understandings of "the rules"....where do you think the "souls" of these famous people were sent?

Jimi Hendrix
John Bonham
Stevie Ray Vaughn
Janis Joplin
Kurt Cobain
Marilyn Monroe
Elvis Presley
George Carlin
Freddie Mercury


(to anyone who wishes, feel free to ask about other famous people and where their "souls" may have been sent - I know the list could get quite long)

If you had to guess - where are their "souls"?
Click to expand...

If you want to go strictly by the "rules", I'd say they're all in purgatory right now, on the way to heaven.
 
Dragonfly said:
Based on your beliefs and understandings of "the rules"....where do you think the "souls" of these famous people were sent?

Jimi Hendrix
John Bonham
Stevie Ray Vaughn
Janis Joplin
Kurt Cobain
Marilyn Monroe
Elvis Presley
George Carlin
Freddie Mercury


(to anyone who wishes, feel free to ask about other famous people and where their "souls" may have been sent - I know the list could get quite long)

If you had to guess - where are their "souls"?
Click to expand...

HELL. ALL OF THEM.

Except for Carlin, they sent him somewhere worse.
 
Dragonfly said:
Were his comments on such things purely a comedy routine? Or heartfelt honest opinions?
Click to expand...

It is impossible to tell, which is why I said that his status wasn't certain in the first place.

Between his public views and his sinful lifestyle, it simply happens to be very likely that he is in Hell.

Carlin made people laugh. He made them happy. He was an entertainer.

Something that's highly worthy.

Why should he be excluded?
Click to expand...

Can you think of any place in the Bible or Christian doctrine where it is stated that making someone "happy" is grounds for salvation?

Frankly, even if we were to assume that laughter alone held such value, the fact of the matter is that Carlin made people laugh by encouraging them to doubt and mock God. That makes him a "pied piper," responsible for drawing his audiences into sin, which is a rather grievous sin on his own part as well. One might even argue that it makes him akin to a "false prophet" of sorts.

Either way, the odds of his making it into heaven are rather slim as such.
 
Gathomas88 said:
It is impossible to tell, which is why I said that his status wasn't certain in the first place.

Between his public views and his sinful lifestyle, it simply happens to be very likely that he is in Hell.



Can you think of any place in the Bible or Christian doctrine where it is stated that making someone "happy" is grounds for salvation?

Frankly, even if we were to assume that laughter alone held such value, the fact of the matter is that Carlin made people laugh by encouraging them to doubt and mock God. That makes him a "pied piper," responsible for drawing his audiences into sin, which is a rather grievous sin on his own part as well. One might even argue that it makes him akin to a "false prophet" of sorts.

Either way, the odds of his making it into heaven are rather slim as such.
Click to expand...

See, I think there'd have to be different levels of sin. Just as speeding is breaking the law, but it's not the same thing as rape or murder.

Carlin may have said things that made people think and cringe, but was he a "bad person"?

Was Carlin a good human being?

Did Carlin truly harm anyone?

Rush Limbaugh and his ilk say plenty of hateful crap. Are they destined to hell as well?

Who's more likely to get into heaven, George Carlin or a pedophile Catholic Priest?
 
Dragonfly said:
See, I think there'd have to be different levels of sin. Just as speeding is breaking the law, but it's not the same thing as rape or murder.

Carlin may have said things that made people think and cringe, but was he a "bad person"?

Was Carlin a good human being?

Did Carlin truly harm anyone?

Rush Limbaugh and his ilk say plenty of hateful crap. Are they destined to hell as well?

Who's more likely to get into heaven, George Carlin or a pedophile Catholic Priest?
Click to expand...

Limbaugh's "hateful crap" isn't targeted towards making people turn their backs on God, religion, and therefore their own salvation. Carlin's was.

Additionally, if we are accepting the premise that Heaven and Hell do exist in the first place, it should be noted that leading people down a path which might make them more likely to wind up in Hell than in heaven is rather objectively "harmful."

As far as which is more likely to wind up in Hell between Carlin and a pedophile priest, it is ultimately hard to say.

Priests are held to a higher standard than average people, because they are supposed to "know better." However, at the same time it could be argued that pedophilia is a mental disease which renders a person not fully culpable for their actions (though, obviously, this excuse only carries a person so far, given the fact that even a sick person should have the sense to remove themselves from a situation which may cause others harm). Carlin also reached a far wider audience with his message.

Ultimately, the question would come down to repentance. It's hard to say who is objectively worse, but if either sincerely repents, they can be forgiven.

I simply haven't seen any evidence to suggest that Carlin even did "repent."
 
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Gathomas88 said:
Limbaugh's "hateful crap" isn't targeted towards making people turn their backs on God, religion, and therefore their own salvation. Carlin's was.
Click to expand...

Neither Limbaugh nor Carlin's rhetoric ever made anyone do anything.

His disdain for religion taken into consideration, Carlin's main point was not to turn people away from salvation, it was to ALWAYS QUESTION AUTHORITY. Carlin's beef was far more with church, with organized religion, than it ever was with faith. Religion and faith are two entirely different concepts.
 
Gathomas88 said:
As far as which is more likely to wind up in Hell between Carlin and a pedophile priest, it is ultimately hard to say.
Click to expand...

Since it's up to God who gets into heaven or hell, and it's "hard to say" whether someone who, to our knowledge, has never raped a child would get into heaven over someone who has, then there is something seriously wrong with religion.
 
This is a stupid conversation, because "heaven" and "hell" are fantasy constructs. You may as well ask if Kurt Cobain is in NARNIA. Hell if I know. Or care.
 
Kobie said:
Neither Limbaugh nor Carlin's rhetoric ever made anyone do anything.
Click to expand...

The Bible and Christian doctrine are rather clear on this. It doesn't matter whether you force someone to do something sinful or not, simply planting the idea there or encouraging them to do so is sinful enough by itself.

It is actually considered to be more sinful than committing the sin in question yourself in many cases.

His disdain for religion taken into consideration, Carlin's main point was not to turn people away from salvation, it was to ALWAYS QUESTION AUTHORITY. Carlin's beef was far more with church, with organized religion, than it ever was with faith. Religion and faith are two entirely different concepts.
Click to expand...

Not according to most Christian sects.

Kobie said:
Since it's up to God who gets into heaven or hell, and it's "hard to say" whether someone who, to our knowledge, has never raped a child would get into heaven over someone who has, then there is something seriously wrong with religion.
Click to expand...

Again, it would depend upon whether either of them repented or not.

I have simply seen no evidence that Carlin ever repented.
 
Gathomas88 said:
The Bible and Christian doctrine are rather clear on this. It doesn't matter whether you force someone to do something sinful or not, simply planting the idea there or encouraging them to do so is sinful enough by itself.

It is actually considered to be more sinful than committing the sin in question yourself in many cases.
Click to expand...

I thought "free will" was a major crux of Christianity. The power of suggestion is somehow more sinful than the power of doing?

Gathomas88 said:
Not according to most Christian sects.
Click to expand...

Then those are sects that teach loyalty over belief.

Gathomas88 said:
Again, it would depend upon whether either of them repented or not.

I have simply seen no evidence that Carlin ever repented.
Click to expand...

I find the concept of saying "Ooops, sorry," and everything is forgiven to be patently absurd. The notion that a priest, say, could molest boys for 40 years and then repent on his deathbed would be more heaven-worthy than a comedian who never hurt anyone else (at least to that degree) yet didn't repent is why I think religion is bull****. Well, that and a lot of other reasons.
 
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