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Are these Famous people in Heaven, or Hell??

I'm not religious, but I find it curious that people assume a religion should have rules they believe are justifiable. The rules are the rules.

I believe these blokes are dead because hell is silly, but I'd say any honest reading of the New Testament would indicate they didn't get a straight ticket to heaven if these places existed.
 
Dragonfly said:
Based on your beliefs and understandings of "the rules"....where do you think the "souls" of these famous people were sent?

Jimi Hendrix
John Bonham
Stevie Ray Vaughn
Janis Joplin
Kurt Cobain
Marilyn Monroe
Elvis Presley
George Carlin
Freddie Mercury


(to anyone who wishes, feel free to ask about other famous people and where their "souls" may have been sent - I know the list could get quite long)

If you had to guess - where are their "souls"?
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I believe that the location of their souls depends on what they need, and their level of development, and that they aren't "sent" anywhere, but rather go willingly to whatever *place* is needed for continued growth. If that means that you have to go stand in the corner for awhile, then you will eventually pay your dues, and get to play again. :lol:
 
Kobie said:
I thought "free will" was a major crux of Christianity. The power of suggestion is somehow more sinful than the power of doing?
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Yes, but you're not supposed to influence the "free will" of another person in a negative direction either. Tempting someone into sin is sinful.

It is "more sinful" as the sin is two fold, and does harm to another person, rather than just to yourself.

I find the concept of saying "Ooops, sorry," and everything is forgiven to be patently absurd. The notion that a priest, say, could molest boys for 40 years and then repent on his deathbed would be more heaven-worthy than a comedian who never hurt anyone else (at least to that degree) yet didn't repent is why I think religion is bull****. Well, that and a lot of other reasons.
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Well, what if they truly are sorry? Wouldn't denial of salvation on those grounds be more akin to revenge than anything else?

The simple fact of the matter is that none of us are really worthy of heaven on our own merits. We are all imperfect sinners, and that is exactly why God grants us merciful leeway when it comes to judgement.

Frankly, that is the whole point of our existence in this world in the first place. We are meant to make mistakes, so that we might learn from them, better ourselves, and in so doing, come closer to God. Repentance (of the genuine, rather than feigned variety) is a sign of exactly that.
 
Gathomas88 said:
Barring some incredible death bed change of heart, all of them fall pretty squarely in the "probably not" category.

And, really? You even have to ask about George Carlin? View attachment 67165636
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Well.....then it's a good thing that place does not exist.

If it did....I doubt Carlin would want to go there....too many wonderful Christians.
 
What's so important about "repenting" while still "alive" on planet Earth?

Why can't someone's soul "repent" when they are faced with the reality of what happens after death?

If you find yourself standing in front of St. Peter - can't you just say:

"Son of a bitch.....so it's actually true. Well, that being the case, I do honestly repent for my sins when I was alive."

Why is there some set time-frame for repentance? Why can't it happen the moment you realize "god" does exist? Which might in fact not happen until after you die.
 
According to the Bible, everyone has eternal life. However, those who have heard a fair presentation of the Gospel and have rejected Christ will spend theirs in Hell, according to the Scriptures.

“I told you that you would die in your sins; if you do not believe that I am the one I claim to be, you will indeed die in your sins." - Jesus, John 8:24

“Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.” - John 14:6

"Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not have the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him." - John 3:36

“But unless you repent, you too will all perish.” - Luke 13:3

"For if you forgive other people when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you." - Matthew 6

For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith (in Christ) —and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast. - Ephesians 2:8-9

Salvation is found in no one else (no one but Christ), for there is no other name under heaven given to mankind by which we must be saved. - Acts 4:12

"If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved." - Romans 10:9-10
 
Dragonfly said:
What's so important about "repenting" while still "alive" on planet Earth?

Why can't someone's soul "repent" when they are faced with the reality of what happens after death?

If you find yourself standing in front of St. Peter - can't you just say:

"Son of a bitch.....so it's actually true. Well, that being the case, I do honestly repent for my sins when I was alive."

Why is there some set time-frame for repentance? Why can't it happen the moment you realize "god" does exist? Which might in fact not happen until after you die.
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I've always figured that true repentance should be because you honestly feel bad about what you did, honestly feel guilt, something a "God" should know without actually saying it out loud because "God" is supposed to be able to look into our hearts. IF a person truly regrets what they did, then they will feel sorry for it. If not, then is it really worth it for them to say out loud they are, whether before or after death, just to appease God or try to get into the good afterlife?

Now, having said that, I think that it does make a lot more sense though to allow some leeway after death than expecting it to all happen prior to. This gives a person a chance at least to possibly see some consequences to actions that they may have done that they didn't actually realize would cause problems because they didn't see those consequences during their life.

Personally, I believe in reincarnation, so...
 
roguenuke said:
I've always figured that true repentance should be because you honestly feel bad about what you did, honestly feel guilt, something a "God" should know without actually saying it out loud because "God" is supposed to be able to look into our hearts. IF a person truly regrets what they did, then they will feel sorry for it. If not, then is it really worth it for them to say out loud they are, whether before or after death, just to appease God or try to get into the good afterlife?

Now, having said that, I think that it does make a lot more sense though to allow some leeway after death than expecting it to all happen prior to. This gives a person a chance at least to possibly see some consequences to actions that they may have done that they didn't actually realize would cause problems because they didn't see those consequences during their life.

Personally, I believe in reincarnation, so...
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Right ... so this comes back to my thoughts about George Carlin possibly being a very good person.

Just because he made people think, and laugh, and challenge the "system" doesn't make him a bad person.

I can perfectly justify the idea that Carlin would be allowed into heaven. If there is such a place.
 
Dragonfly said:
Right ... so this comes back to my thoughts about George Carlin possibly being a very good person.

Just because he made people think, and laugh, and challenge the "system" doesn't make him a bad person.

I can perfectly justify the idea that Carlin would be allowed into heaven. If there is such a place.
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Absolutely. I honestly think that all of them moved on to other lives (again, that reincarnation thing) and have at least a chance to eventually end up in a...positive... permanent afterlife. I think very few souls actually end up in a..negative.. permanent afterlife.
 
Gathomas88 said:
As far as which is more likely to wind up in Hell between Carlin and a pedophile priest, it is ultimately hard to say.
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This is one reason i have a hard time believing in any of this. There's simply no justice in this equation in my view. A kid raper causes considerable harm and ruins lives, whereas Carlin was just a comedian. He couldn't force anyone into atheism, even if you think that's so terrible.
 
chromium said:
This is one reason i have a hard time believing in any of this. There's simply no justice in this equation in my view. A kid raper causes considerable harm and ruins lives, whereas Carlin was just a comedian. He couldn't force anyone into atheism, even if you think that's so terrible.
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I'm not sure if Gatho himself feels that Carlin's antics are equatable to a child predator. He's just explaining how he believes god feels about it.
 
Gathomas88 said:
Between his public views and his sinful lifestyle, it simply happens to be very likely that he is in Hell.
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Can anyone read that, consider it's being proposed by an adult, and not laugh?
 
Gathomas88 said:
A little over 2.1 billion people, at last estimate.
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Most of them at least snicker, many outright laugh at such childish proclamations.

He's in Hell now!!

Yeah, ok.
*snicker*
 
Gathomas88 said:
And you believe in what, again?

Some sort of New Age "universe magic" nonsense?
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I'm not an idiot programmed by other idiots. I don't believe in anything supernatural. I don't believe in magic, or alternate dimensions where people are sent by an invisible sky wizard to punish or reward. That crap is meant to control the dim witted.
 
ecofarm said:
I'm not an idiot programmed by other idiots. I don't believe in anything supernatural. I don't believe in magic, or alternate dimensions where people are sent by an invisible sky wizard to punish or reward. That crap is meant to control the dim witted.
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Whatever floats your boat. :shrug:
 
Gathomas88 said:
Whatever floats your boat. :shrug:
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Oooh, what happened? You didn't get me on the "new age magic" routine so now you're just gonna concede that believing in magic and alternate dimensions is stupid?

Oh, wait... I almost forgot... you have proof. A book was written 2k years ago and you think it explains magic and alternate dimensions.
*snicker*

I'll let you in on a secret... the Bible without magic works just fine as a metaphysical guide. The whole supernatural interpretation is totally unnecessary and was intended for the uneducated and stupid.
 
Last edited:
Dragonfly said:
Based on your beliefs and understandings of "the rules"....where do you think the "souls" of these famous people were sent?

Jimi Hendrix
John Bonham
Stevie Ray Vaughn
Janis Joplin
Kurt Cobain
Marilyn Monroe
Elvis Presley
George Carlin
Freddie Mercury


(to anyone who wishes, feel free to ask about other famous people and where their "souls" may have been sent - I know the list could get quite long)

If you had to guess - where are their "souls"?
Click to expand...

Into graves?
 
They're underground being eaten by worms. There is no evidence for heaven, hell or souls.
 
Dragonfly said:
What's worse than hell?
Click to expand...

Afghanistan.

And to answer the question in the OP, they likely no longer exist. The concept of hell was invented in the new testament as a means to coerce people into christianity. Think about it, would anybody be scared of not believing if it didn't exist?
 
Dragonfly said:
Based on your beliefs and understandings of "the rules"....where do you think the "souls" of these famous people were sent?

Jimi Hendrix
John Bonham
Stevie Ray Vaughn
Janis Joplin
Kurt Cobain
Marilyn Monroe
Elvis Presley
George Carlin
Freddie Mercury


(to anyone who wishes, feel free to ask about other famous people and where their "souls" may have been sent - I know the list could get quite long)

If you had to guess - where are their "souls"?
Click to expand...

None of them had souls, except Janis of course. She had SOUL!
 
Dragonfly said:
Based on your beliefs and understandings of "the rules"....where do you think the "souls" of these famous people were sent?

Jimi Hendrix
John Bonham
Stevie Ray Vaughn
Janis Joplin
Kurt Cobain
Marilyn Monroe
Elvis Presley
George Carlin
Freddie Mercury


(to anyone who wishes, feel free to ask about other famous people and where their "souls" may have been sent - I know the list could get quite long)

If you had to guess - where are their "souls"?
Click to expand...



I don't believe in most of the dogma of religions, especially certain aspects about the Devil, demons and hell. Eternal punishment for temporal acts of ignorance don't seem to make much sense. I'm more spiritual than religious, and believe there's a supreme being, though not this judgmental angry God that is often described. Of course when we see the injustice, loss, pain, suffering and death that exists it becomes difficult to reconcile those experiences with a loving, caring, peaceful creator, but the reasons for these harsh realities will probably be made clear eventually. I'm sure it has something to do with things like natural laws, cause and effect and free will.

Most religions are a limited and superstitious fashion of ancient man trying to describe the divine responsible for life and its unexplainable phenomena. It's likely impossible for a few books, religions or even the sum total of scientific knowledge to completely explain an all encompassing deity.

From my own perspective any supreme being would have to be pure, infinite conscious energy.

People will always ask, "what existed prior to the universe?" And you'd have to conclude the same conscious energy source but in an unmoved state of rest. It was always in a perfect state of stasis and continuous bliss, with no need to do anything other than be. An infinite and timeless Being would always be in the ever present now, with time and space being an observable extension of its energy, possibly from an unobservable dimension, similar to a Higgs field.

The universe could literally be the reflection of an eternal conscious mind. And it is recreating itself from a singular identity into a people or souls. It passes its conscious energy thru the lifespan of a person and rejoins it to itself as a new personality, to become One in Being as a heavenly collective existing in a timeless continuum.
 
grip said:
I don't believe in most of the dogma of religions, especially certain aspects about the Devil, demons and hell. Eternal punishment for temporal acts of ignorance don't seem to make much sense. I'm more spiritual than religious, and believe there's a supreme being, though not this judgmental angry God that is often described. Of course when we see the injustice, loss, pain, suffering and death that exists it becomes difficult to reconcile those experiences with a loving, caring, peaceful creator, but the reasons for these harsh realities will probably be made clear eventually. I'm sure it has something to do with things like natural laws, cause and effect and free will.

Most religions are a limited and superstitious fashion of ancient man trying to describe the divine responsible for life and its unexplainable phenomena. It's likely impossible for a few books, religions or even the sum total of scientific knowledge to completely explain an all encompassing deity.

From my own perspective any supreme being would have to be pure, infinite conscious energy.

People will always ask, "what existed prior to the universe?" And you'd have to conclude the same conscious energy source but in an unmoved state of rest. It was always in a perfect state of stasis and continuous bliss, with no need to do anything other than be. An infinite and timeless Being would always be in the ever present now, with time and space being an observable extension of its energy, possibly from an unobservable dimension, similar to a Higgs field.

The universe could literally be the reflection of an eternal conscious mind. And it is recreating itself from a singular identity into a people or souls. It passes its conscious energy thru the lifespan of a person and rejoins it to itself as a new personality, to become One in Being as a heavenly collective existing in a timeless continuum.
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That's an interesting and thoughtful post. I can see the logic and the beauty of it, I just don't believe that anything is eternal. Everything changes, observably so, so positing something that is unchanging requires a leap of faith that is not in accordance with anything we can see or experience to be true. I'm not saying that simply because we can't see or experience it means it cannot be true, just that it takes something metaphysical to make it true, therefore it's interesting to ponder, but ultimately pointless to speculate on, even less to make concrete claims about.
 
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