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Only 30% of children raised atheist stay atheist.

pogomutt said:
I saw a piece on Al Jazeera that addressed Christianity's enormous appeal to so many middle class people in China. In fact, China may soon boast more Christians than North America. Talk about people who were raised atheist. China's communists have never had much tolerance for religion of any stripe, and they've never minded suppressing it with murderous energy. But today, in our time, China boasts a middle class in excess of 100 million people. The have security, good jobs, good income (and disposable income for luxuries...like a Buick), but they're starting to feel empty, like something big is missing from their lives, something bigger than themselves. So they're turning to Christianity in droves. All these people who not that long ago were atheists by government mandate. They don't want to be atheists. They want to welcome God into their lives. So they are.
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Yeah, it's an interesting phenomenon. Many Chinese Christians have this interesting perspective that they believe that Christianity, from its inception, has been spreading in a general westerly direction, and they feel they are just one of the last legs of the journey. As such they see their role as closing the gap by making the Middle East Christian.
 
jmotivator said:
Maybe. But it is interesting that if atheist families don't really discuss the non-existence of God with their kids, or discuss God at all, that kids seem to go seeking God anyway 70% of the time.
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Seeking "God" as presented in religions does not means that they may stay religious. They may not like the primitive presentations of God in religion and may create their own instead.
 
pogomutt said:
I saw a piece on Al Jazeera that addressed Christianity's enormous appeal to so many middle class people in China. In fact, China may soon boast more Christians than North America. Talk about people who were raised atheist. China's communists have never had much tolerance for religion of any stripe, and they've never minded suppressing it with murderous energy. But today, in our time, China boasts a middle class in excess of 100 million people. The have security, good jobs, good income (and disposable income for luxuries...like a Buick), but they're starting to feel empty, like something big is missing from their lives, something bigger than themselves. So they're turning to Christianity in droves. All these people who not that long ago were atheists by government mandate. They don't want to be atheists. They want to welcome God into their lives. So they are.
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That is sad, China will be much better off if they can avoid private ownership of automobiles and Christianity, they are so destructive. Perhaps they want to use the religion as a way to justify their higher level of prosperity compared to other people. With Christianity they can tell themselves it is because they are better than others. You can't beat Christianity for supporting social/political hierarchies. Also, telling people to not do something is a good way to get them to do it, so the repression of Christianity probably attracted many people to it.
 
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votemout said:
every one knows that a relationship with God is not a religion.
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Ever heard of Evangelical Christianity? It's a small movement of over 100 million people in the United States.

You might want to change your position that every one knows. There are a lot of people that do not know.
 
Manc Skipper said:
You set out expecting a child to behave well, and he/she tends to do that. Expect him/her to behave badly, they'll tend to do that too. Better to expect the best. Your moronicity is not for me to judge.
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Do you expect everybody to treat you fairly every single time in your life? This must be a disappointing way to live. You must be surprised and frustrated all the time.
 
tecoyah said:
I do not think Atheists try to raise their kids to be Atheists....it is actually more a LACK of indoctrination than the use of it.
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Now that is a gross misrepresentation of reality...

If anyone is into indoctrination through contempt without prior investigation it is atheists. Look at the incessant bait threads, calling out believers, OCD in practice.

Is there an atheist who would allow a Bible in their home?
 
votemout said:
Because Catholicism is just a religion. Catholicism is the greatest scam of all time, anyone that studies the bible knows that Catholicism does not even follow the bible. it is the greatest fraud of all time.

every one knows that a relationship with God is not a religion.
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that seems a little intollernt and judgemental of religion. I can understand that from someone that does not believe in god...but wouldn't expect that sentiment from someone that claims to study the word.
 
Summerwind said:
I just wonder how many ultimately walk away from religion again once the newness wears off, and the politics and the demands, both within and without the immediate church/religion, begin to overpower the "teachings" of the religion?
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The church where I attend likes to pile on responsibilities on new members. There is also a very dirty political side of church business. I have wondered the same thing that you are asking. Why don't they just get annoyed and start staying home on Sunday to watch TV? It doesn't really happen that much. People stay for a long time and always seem to enjoy being involved. I think it takes members about 5-10 years to experience burnout and frustration. They just take a breather for about 4-5 months and then jump back in.

That's just my personal observation of what I think you are describing.
 
nota bene said:
I'd think that secular parents would have to explain why Yom Kippur or Lent or Ramadan is observed by others but not by them. They would have to explain what they believe/don't believe. I don't really see much difference between secularism and atheism, but I do know that no matter how you're rearing your kids, they're going to have questions about others who are rearing their children differently.
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I think Robbie Loucks is offended that we are bulking his parents into the same category of militant evangelical atheist.
 
Fearandloathing said:
Now that is a gross misrepresentation of reality...

If anyone is into indoctrination through contempt without prior investigation it is atheists. Look at the incessant bait threads, calling out believers, OCD in practice.

Is there an atheist who would allow a Bible in their home?
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I'm an atheist, and I have 3 bibles (different versions), the koran, the gnostic bible, a nag hammadi translation, the bhagavad gita, and many other religious texts. I like to read and learn about many different religions. Religious texts don't burn us if we touch them.
 
jmotivator said:
Maybe. But it is interesting that if atheist families don't really discuss the non-existence of God with their kids, or discuss God at all, that kids seem to go seeking God anyway 70% of the time.
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Kids are gullible creatures. They will find out soon enough that religion is a hoax. Many of the most religious people I knew became disillusioned by the time they were 50. The very idea of eternal life is a childish belief but some never grow up.
 
Aunt Spiker said:
I'm not trying to prevent them from believing in anything. I want them to choose what they believe with intelligent thought and solid reasoning based on things that they deem important and significant in their life.
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What about your grandchildren? Your children might choose a religion based upon intelligent thought and solid reasoning based on things that they deem important and significant in their life and teach it to your grandchildren. Is that ok?
 
TheNextEra said:
No, YOU are wrong because you are wrong.
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This reminds me of Charlie Brown. Lucy gave Charlie Brown five reasons. She held up five fingers, put them down one at a time and then closed her hand into a fist. Charlie Brown concluded that those were good reasons.

I think this is a good way to explain how he was so wrong in a Charlie Brown kind of way.
 
iguanaman said:
Kids are gullible creatures. They will find out soon enough that religion is a hoax. .......by the time they were 50.
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I grew up in a strong Christian home. My mom attends church a lot less and she believes that homosexuals are born that way. I am starting to wonder if she has lost her faith but remains for social purposes. If that is the case, she will never admit it to me or anybody else.

Just because someone claims to hold strong Christian beliefs doesn't mean that they hold strong Christian beliefs.
 
vasuderatorrent said:
Do you expect everybody to treat you fairly every single time in your life? This must be a disappointing way to live. You must be surprised and frustrated all the time.
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It's elementary psychology, and apart from the 3% of psychopaths, it tends to work. If you expect the worst, then you'll tend to get that, so better to expect the best from people.
 
Fearandloathing said:
Now that is a gross misrepresentation of reality...

If anyone is into indoctrination through contempt without prior investigation it is atheists. Look at the incessant bait threads, calling out believers, OCD in practice.

Is there an atheist who would allow a Bible in their home?
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It is actually your post that is the gross misrepresentation of reality.

Wolfgirl already told you she had a bble in her home, guess what, so do I. I have atheist friends, we swap books from time to time. I have browsed their bookshelves, I have seen bibles included in their book collection. I have seen atheists in youtube videos, I have seen them pull out bibles and consult them.

You are making a hasty generalization in the rest of your post. The outspoken atheists that you are exposed to only represent a fraction of atheists, and even then many of us who are outspoken will encourage our children to explore their worlds with an open mind, just as many of the atheists whom you are not exposed to that quietly go about their lives will.

I am an atheist because and despite extensive investigation, and I am far from alone on this. I will encourage my children to investigate for themselves as intensively and thoroughly as they wish, I will encourage them to make their own decisions, and their own conclusions, regardless of where those conclusions take them. I will personally pull the bible off the bookshelf and hand it to them should they express a desire to explore what lies within its pages.
 
iguanaman said:
Kids are gullible creatures. They will find out soon enough that religion is a hoax. Many of the most religious people I knew became disillusioned by the time they were 50. The very idea of eternal life is a childish belief but some never grow up.
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Your argument is easily refuted by the statistics. If things normally progressed the way you suggest then the general population would be far more than 1.6% atheist.

As for your argument that belief in an eternal life is childish, try this on:

1) Life began as a completely probabilistic event

2) Human Beings evolved from a long series of probabilistic events

3) Human experience is simply a function of brain chemistry

4) The probability of any event occurring increases with time

5) Time is infinite

6) Therefor, You, as you are now, and with the current thoughts you have right now, will happen an infinite number of times.

This universe may collapse back to a point, and burst back into existence billions of times before the conditions just so to allow that you happen again, but you will.

This may not be correct, but it is not so simple to contradict.
 
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vasuderatorrent said:
I grew up in a strong Christian home. My mom attends church a lot less and she believes that homosexuals are born that way. I am starting to wonder if she has lost her faith but remains for social purposes. If that is the case, she will never admit it to me or anybody else.

Just because someone claims to hold strong Christian beliefs doesn't mean that they hold strong Christian beliefs.
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I'm sure that it is true that some people don't report their faith accurately, but that is not a solid foundation on which to draw any bigger conclusions.

Also, the determination of the origin of homosexuality is not generally a pillar of most Christian faiths.
 
jmotivator said:
Your argument is easily refuted by the statistics. If things normally progressed the way you suggest then the general population would be far more than 1.6% atheist.

As for your argument that belief in an eternal life is childish, try this on:

1) Life began as a completely probabilistic event

2) Human Beings evolved from a long series of probabilistic events

3) Human experience is simply a function of brain chemistry

4) The probability of any event occurring increases with time

5) Time is infinite

6) Therefor, You, as you are now, and with the current thoughts you have right now, will happen an infinite number of times.

This universe may collapse back to a point, and burst back into existence billions of times before the conditions just so to allow that you happen again, but you will.

This may not be correct, but it is not so simple to contradict.
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So you are a Buddhist and believe in reincarnation? I hope to be a cow one day too. What you say is true of all living things on the planet and has nothing to do with God OR eternal life. I am glad that you don't believe in heaven or hell though. That is childish.
 
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Fearandloathing said:
Now that is a gross misrepresentation of reality...

If anyone is into indoctrination through contempt without prior investigation it is atheists. Look at the incessant bait threads, calling out believers, OCD in practice.

Is there an atheist who would allow a Bible in their home?
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....Uh....I had one for many years, and used it to educate my Children on both history and holiday celebration.

By the way.....my kids will be whatever they decide to be.
 
And yet atheism (both explicit self-identification and "unaffiliated" people) is the fastest growing religious demographic. More people are checking the "none of the above" box every year. That the younger generation of atheists are using their un-indoctrinated open minds to sample other possibilities for a while seems more like a feature than a bug. And since they seem to be turning towards Buddhism, rather than any monotheistic religions, they're looking for a sense of spirituality, not any kind of gods. Buddhists don't teach their daughters to be helpless, nor try to substitute myth for science, nor use their religion to justify racism and oppression of gays. There's a lot less to object to about them than Christians, Jews, and Muslims.
 
Paschendale said:
And yet atheism (both explicit self-identification and "unaffiliated" people) is the fastest growing religious demographic. More people are checking the "none of the above" box every year. That the younger generation of atheists are using their un-indoctrinated open minds to sample other possibilities for a while seems more like a feature than a bug. And since they seem to be turning towards Buddhism, rather than any monotheistic religions, they're looking for a sense of spirituality, not any kind of gods. Buddhists don't teach their daughters to be helpless, nor try to substitute myth for science, nor use their religion to justify racism and oppression of gays. There's a lot less to object to about them than Christians, Jews, and Muslims.
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That's pretty misleading if you assume that all "unaffiliated" people are atheists.
 
vasuderatorrent said:
What about your grandchildren? Your children might choose a religion based upon intelligent thought and solid reasoning based on things that they deem important and significant in their life and teach it to your grandchildren. Is that ok?
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So . . . you're suggesting I should adopt a new outlook and, perhaps, take my kids to church instead?

Don't be snide . . . I'm not raising my grandchildren, am I? If you think I'm going to fuss with child rearing after my kids move out of the house you've lost your mind. LOL
 
iguanaman said:
So you are a Buddhist and believe in reincarnation? I hope to be a cow one day too. What you say is true of all living things on the planet and has nothing to do with God OR eternal life. I am glad that you don't believe in heaven or hell though. That is childish.
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I never said the argument WOULD have anything to do with God, I said the exact opposite, actually.

Also, no, by my argument you don't "come back as a cow", that would be an impossibility by current scientific understanding as the bovine brain is incompatible with human higher thought processes. Therefor, since the chance is zero, probability can't increase with time and remains zero.

I am glad to see that you have passively conceded that your "belief in the after life is childish" statement was, in fact, pretty childish.
 
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