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Is Atheism a belief system? A religion?

John Hancock said:
I don't know.

Without being taught religion, or at least the concept of it from an early age, the default position would be no belief, would it not?
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Precisely. Saves me the trouble responding to him, thanks.

That people have beliefs other than the default does not change what the default position is on those beliefs.
 
Cable said:
You make a statement without any evidence of support.
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I proved it in my previous post. There is no set moral code or practices that would make atheism a religion. Absence of a belief in God is not a religion. That's like saying because I don't believe pink unicorns are inside the moon that my belief is a religion.
 
marduc said:
So not accepting a claim is a religion in your eyes? disbelief is not a religion, and it certainly is not a belief system. The only single unifying belief that there may be is that the claim that god exists has not been established as true.
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If one does not believe in God because one does not feel the proof is there to support it is a belief system. The subsequent moral decisions one makes based on this belief are religious decisions.
 
Cable said:
If one does not believe in God because one does not feel the proof is there to support it is a belief system. The subsequent moral decisions one makes based on this belief are religious decisions.
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If I don't believe pink unicorns are inside the moon that doesn't mean my moral decisions are based on that belief.
 
tecoyah said:
Your premise is flawed from the onset...a disbelief in something does not equate to an inherent need to replace the dissed belief with something else. There may very well be existing beliefs that lead to the disbelief in that something, but those beliefs were already there.

Using logical and rational scientific thought as the default process of data evaluation is NOT a moral decision.
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Pre-existent beliefs? That concept is not logical. Beliefs are based on reason, meaning they accepted at a point in time where evidence has lead to a conclusion. They do not exist prior to the conclusion.
 
John Hancock said:
I don't know.

Without being taught religion, or at least the concept of it from an early age, the default position would be no belief, would it not?
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This is probably fodder for a new thread, so I'll keep it brief. Why would nearly every culture we know of all throughout history teach some form of belief in God if it were not innate?
 
TheNextEra said:
I proved it in my previous post. There is no set moral code or practices that would make atheism a religion. Absence of a belief in God is not a religion. That's like saying because I don't believe pink unicorns are inside the moon that my belief is a religion.
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No, you didn't, and no it's not the same thing.
 
Cable said:
No, you didn't, and no it's not the same thing.
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Ok so please do tell us what the set moral code is then that would make atheism a religion. And yes, it is the EXACT same thing. Just because someone doesn't believe in something, doesn't mean it is a religion.

There is not set moral code or practices that would make atheism a religion. Even YOU can't come up with it.
 
Cable said:
This is probably fodder for a new thread, so I'll keep it brief. Why would nearly every culture we know of all throughout history teach some form of belief in God if it were not innate?
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Those beliefs were developed over time. They didn't spring from the womb with a belief in god.
 
John Hancock said:
I don't know.

Without being taught religion, or at least the concept of it from an early age, the default position would be no belief, would it not?
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With no disrespect taken and none offered, I suggest you read some basic theology and philosophy. It has been an amazing eye opener for me, a late in life convert.

Do not be afraid of the word theology, it is NOT indoctrination but the opposite. Even the ancients like Socrates, through to St. Benedict, the pacifists and even Zarathrustra, that mad atheist with a god complex deal with what some now call "the God sized hole in man", from his earliest beging has looked to nature and the stars and myth to find explanation and reason for the world around him.

Until there was science, there were not atheists, but all of mankind was theist, from paganism, to Native American spiritualism [remarkably similar acoss a third of the globe] to "new age", the "default" has always been to seek or worship a power greater than ones self.


What do atheists cry out at orgasm?
 
Cable said:
Pre-existent beliefs? That concept is not logical. Beliefs are based on reason, meaning they accepted at a point in time where evidence has lead to a conclusion. They do not exist prior to the conclusion.
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Perhaps this might help:

I believe the Earth will continue rotating on it's axis for another day.
I believed this yesterday as well, and concluded I would be able to mow the lawn in sunlight at 10am.
I just concluded that I will mow the yard again on Wednesday.
I base my decision entirely on pre-existing belief.

Your comment actually defeats itself by stating pre-existing belief is not logical and then stating it is required to reach a conclusion.
 
Fearandloathing said:
With no disrespect taken and none offered, I suggest you read some basic theology and philosophy. It has been an amazing eye opener for me, a late in life convert.

Do not be afraid of the word theology, it is NOT indoctrination but the opposite. Even the ancients like Socrates, through to St. Benedict, the pacifists and even Zarathrustra, that mad atheist with a god complex deal with what some now call "the God sized hole in man", from his earliest beging has looked to nature and the stars and myth to find explanation and reason for the world around him.

Until there was science, there were not atheists, but all of mankind was theist, from paganism, to Native American spiritualism [remarkably similar acoss a third of the globe] to "new age", the "default" has always been to seek or worship a power greater than ones self.
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Of course, everyone wants an answer to unsolved questions. God of the gaps I believe is the term. But when you're first born, you neither believe in a god, nor supplement it with anything else, it's as if you're at a fork in the road (or however many paths) and you haven't decided which to go down yet. The spiritualists, monotheists, and polytheists who came before many of the scientific answers had only one path to choose from.


What do atheists cry out at orgasm?
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Ohhhhh, Darwin!
 
It's a belief about religion. I think you could call that a religious belief.

Agnosticism would be much less so.
 
tecoyah said:
Perhaps this might help:
...... Your comment actually defeats itself by stating pre-existing belief is not logical and then stating it is required to reach a conclusion.
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I said the consideration of evidence was required to reach a conclusion.
 
OldWorldOrder said:
It's a belief about religion. I think you could call that a religious belief.

Agnosticism would be much less so.
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Again, how is it a religious belief? Believing there is no God is no different than believing there are no pink unicorns inside the moon. Absence of a belief is not a religion. I will agree and say that atheism is a belief, but it isn't a religion.

No one can produce what the set moral codes and practices of atheism are that would make it a religion.
 
TheNextEra said:
Again, how is it a religious belief? Believing there is no God is no different than believing there are no pink unicorns inside the moon. Absence of a belief is not a religion. I will agree and say that atheism is a belief, but it isn't a religion.
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It's not absence of a belief. It's the active belief that there is no god. Different from agnosticism, which is either the belief that one doesn't know, or lack of belief at all.

No one can produce what the set moral codes and practices of atheism are that would make it a religion.
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You could say the same for Taoism.
 
John Hancock said:
Of course, everyone wants an answer to unsolved questions. God of the gaps I believe is the term. But when you're first born, you neither believe in a god, nor supplement it with anything else, it's as if you're at a fork in the road (or however many paths) and you haven't decided which to go down yet. The spiritualists, monotheists, and polytheists who came before many of the scientific answers had only one path to choose from.
Ohhhhh, Darwin!
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I agree with you in part. But God isn't simply the answer to unobserved or unobservable items. Where do I come from and where am I going are far different questions than why isn't it raining in California.
 
Cable said:
Atheism | Define Atheism at Dictionary.com

Atheism

1.the doctrine or belief that there is no God.
2.disbelief in the existence of a supreme being or beings.

rejection of belief in God or gods
[C16: from French athéisme, from Greek atheos godless, from a-1 + theos god]

________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Atheism is the denial of the existence of God or gods (deity). As it is impossible to prove God does not exist, there is no supporting evidence that He does not exist.
If one then establishes for themselves a conviction that God does not exist, it must be a belief.
One can then go about attempting to give the reasons behind this personal decision, but these are ultimately subjective conclusions based on what one has observed.

I believe Atheism to be a secularist religion, in that it is a belief system with it's own customs, practices, and moral code.

________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Religion | Define Religion at Dictionary.com

Religion

1.a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, especially when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.
2.a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects: the Christian religion; the Buddhist religion.
3.the body of persons adhering to a particular set of beliefs and practices: a world council of religions.
4.the life or state of a monk, nun, etc.: to enter religion.
5.the practice of religious beliefs; ritual observance of faith.

Idioms
9.get religion, Informal.
a.to acquire a deep conviction of the validity of religious beliefs and practices.
b.to resolve to mend one's errant ways: The company got religion and stopped making dangerous products.
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It's non-theism, or without theism. It's no more a religion than being a non-Porsche-owner makes me religious.
 
Cable said:
I said the consideration of evidence was required to reach a conclusion.
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Originally Posted by Cable

Pre-existent beliefs? That concept is not logical. Beliefs are based on reason, meaning they accepted at a point in time where evidence has lead to a conclusion. They do not exist prior to the conclusion.
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And that said "Evidence" are the result of pre-existing belief. If they do not exist prior to the conclusion, no conclusion could possibly be made.
 
Cable said:
This is probably fodder for a new thread, so I'll keep it brief. Why would nearly every culture we know of all throughout history teach some form of belief in God if it were not innate?
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To end the, otherwise endless, need to explain why. When a parent wishes to train (direct) a child, at some point, it becomes necessary to say because I said so. ;)

If a leader can assert that they represent absolute right then they gain power.
 
OldWorldOrder said:
It's not absence of a belief. It's the active belief that there is no god. Different from agnosticism, which is either the belief that one doesn't know, or lack of belief at all.
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So if I believe there are no pink unicorns you are saying it is now a religion? I don't think so.

You could say the same for Taoism.
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And there is debate whether Taoism is a religion or just a philosophy. There are atheists that practice Taosim, so it isn't necessarily a religion.
 
TheNextEra said:
Again, how is it a religious belief? Believing there is no God is no different than believing there are no pink unicorns inside the moon. Absence of a belief is not a religion. I will agree and say that atheism is a belief, but it isn't a religion.

No one can produce what the set moral codes and practices of atheism are that would make it a religion.
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Just as there are many religions, and many gods, there are many religions based on atheism. But if you look to the laws of the land, those tend to reflect the atheistic code. And oddly, they reflect Gods law to a great degree as well. There are however some huge sticking points between the two. Mans laws tend toward selfishness. Gods law tends toward the real greater good. This is why no law of the land can ever get it quite right. We are too selfish by nature to allow God's law to the full extent. Even though it would be in our best interest, both personally and as a society.
Don't take this to mean I advocate a state religion, even though we already have one of sorts. Men aren't good enough to be trusted with this power. History proves this point unmercifully.
 
Cable said:
Just as there are many religions, and many gods, there are many religions based on atheism. But if you look to the laws of the land, those tend to reflect the atheistic code. And oddly, they reflect Gods law to a great degree as well. There are however some huge sticking points between the two. Mans laws tend toward selfishness. Gods law tends toward the real greater good. This is why no law of the land can ever get it quite right. We are too selfish by nature to allow God's law to the full extent. Even though it would be in our best interest, both personally and as a society.
Don't take this to mean I advocate a state religion, even though we already have one of sorts. Men aren't good enough to be trusted with this power. History proves this point unmercifully.
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Sorry but I don't buy the whole "Atheists are selfish" just because they don't believe in some God. And there is no set moral code or practice of atheism, therefore it isn't a religion. A belief yes, a religion no.
 
tecoyah said:
And that said "Evidence" are the result of pre-existing belief. If they do not exist prior to the conclusion, no conclusion could possibly be made.
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If you walk outside and see the sun, that is not a pre-existing belief. It is observable evidence. Fact if you will. Seeing it every day is what leads you to believe it will rise again tomorrow. So the evidence, the observation of fact, brings you to the belief in a new sunrise tomorrow. You have reached a conclusion about the sun rising tomorrow based on facts observed in the past. Not based on beliefs from the past.
 
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