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Parental Philosophy: Discipline

blackjack50

blackjack50

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I was just listening to "this American life" and it was about "bad" kids. There were some horror stories on this one, but that isn't what I want to discuss. I want to know how y'all feel about discipline.

I believe firmly in spanking. I am sure plenty of people object, but I know that almost everyone I grew up with was spanked. Of course the most important part is that it is a consistent punishment. I think what we see now more and more is inconsistent punishment.

I worked as a teacher and counselor and the amount of disrespect for elders is really high it seems. I think the reason is a lot of parents stand up for their children, take their kids word over the teacher/counselor/coach assuming their kid is god's gift, and then undermine any consistency in discipline that could be made. Anyway. Let me know.


Ps

If there is a better section for this I'm sorry. I wasn't sure where to put it.
 
It depends heavily on the child. Some kids respond positively to spanking, if it is done with the right motivations, and in the right manner, and others get their spirits crushed by it. Every method of reward and punishment needs to fit the individual child's needs and personality. I was spanked as a child, but it wasn't needed often at all. For me, being the rebellious type that I was (and still am in some regards), what my mother did worked well, and I would want to be raised the same way again, given the choice. The thing to remember is that you only punish for willful defiance and destructive attitudes, and not for ignorance, and it is imperative to understand how much the child comprehends and retains.
 
Spanking, sparingly applied, is effectivefor major offenses.
Wait until your father or mother gets home isnt. Imo.
Consistency is very important.
 
GottaGo said:
Spanking, sparingly applied, is effectivefor major offenses.
Wait until your father or mother gets home isnt. Imo.
Consistency is very important.
Click to expand...

To the bolded- oh so true. If you don't have the spine to do it yourself, it should never be threatened.
 
Here is my take on my own children

I do what I can to avoid spanking and instead use other forms of discipline. I know my kids and I spend a lot of time figuring out what makes them tick. Because if that I both spend a lot of time having a good bond building time with them. In that bond they respect me because they know that we have a deal. I let them be who they are unjudgmentally and because they know I am there for them, they respect and appreciate me. If they do or prepare to do something out of bounds then I discipline them but it is rare because the rules are consistent and they understand why they are there and I put them there out of concern for things like their safety.

The result is that my kids are exceptionally moral (to the point they confront me about stuff they disagree with), happy, imaginative, comfortable with themselves, and all are achieving their goals (school, karate, and ballet)

As the kids grow they may adopt life styles that aren't my preference but if I gave then a will towards compassion and strength they will very likely be fine anyway.

In terms of respect for adults in general, they tend to unless that adult does something questionable and honestly I council them to question the motivations of authority before going along with anything. They generally do that.

If my kids do wrong to a random adult though, I will call them out and they know that.

So many here seem to confuse respect with fear. Children need to respect adults but adults need to be worthy of respect in the eyes of a child too. It's a two way street and many forget that. Just telling a child do this or you're in trouble teaches them nothing, it's ok with an infant but not a child. No child, unless that child has had their spirit broken will respect just because and nor should they.
 
Last edited:
lizzie said:
This shows that you have a poor understanding of the concept, then.
Click to expand...

Yea, because spanking teaches so much. Pfffffft. Teaches that mom and or dad cant be trusted. My parents NEVER spanked me. I turned out great thanks to their parenting regardless of what you may think of me based on an internet forum.
And my parents took me everywhere with them. Resturants, movies, friends of theirs homes, funerals, weddings and never once did I make them regret it.
 
stonewall50 said:
I was just listening to "this American life" and it was about "bad" kids. There were some horror stories on this one, but that isn't what I want to discuss. I want to know how y'all feel about discipline.

I believe firmly in spanking. I am sure plenty of people object, but I know that almost everyone I grew up with was spanked. Of course the most important part is that it is a consistent punishment. I think what we see now more and more is inconsistent punishment.

I worked as a teacher and counselor and the amount of disrespect for elders is really high it seems. I think the reason is a lot of parents stand up for their children, take their kids word over the teacher/counselor/coach assuming their kid is god's gift, and then undermine any consistency in discipline that could be made. Anyway. Let me know.


Ps

If there is a better section for this I'm sorry. I wasn't sure where to put it.
Click to expand...

I'm a retired teacher, and have also encountered the sorts of parents you describe. "My child said he didn't do it, and he never lies, so you're just wrong." or "You're singling him out because of (insert any sort of physical characteristic here)" Then there was the parent who admitted that she could not control her 10 year old. What's she going to do when he's 15? Holy crap!

That said, corporal punishment is generally not as effective as simply rewarding good behavior and taking away privileges for bad behavior. A parental swat on the 2 year old butt during a melt down might help, but beyond that, it's just not effective.

We used to use corporal punishment at school as well, back in the days of mammoth hunters or so. It didn't work very well at school either, despite the stories old timers like me like to tell.

I can still remember the last time my mother swatted me on the butt. I don't know how old I was, but old enough to have a BB gun, which wasn't very old back in the '50s. I had a bottle of BBs in my back pocket, glass of course since plastic bottles were yet to be invented. It brought a whole new meaning to the phrase, "it hurts me more than it hurts you."
 
My philosophy on parenting is very different than most peoples as I don't believe punishment/criticism/consequences and rewards/praise are effective in getting kids to do what we want. I believe children do their best with unconditional love, respect and the opportunity to make their own choices even if those choices are mistakes. A parent that controls a child in my mind conveying to their kids that they love them conditionally; that is, only when they achieve or behave in the way the parents desire. I believe that children learn to make good decisions by actually making decisions, not by following directions by their parents. I believe it is important for a parent to expand the mind of their children by helping them solve problems, providing them with choices, and to learn how to use reason. That when a child misbehaves before lets say bedtime stories that their behavior should be discussed, and the reasons for the behavior addressed, instead of addressing the problem by robbing of them their bedtime stories that only conveys to the child that their reasons are not important and they will do what the parent wants or else they will do without whatever they enjoy in their lives. I don't believe that is treating the child as a human being deserving of respect, but treating them like they are insignificant and not worthy enough to listen to and understand. I try to avoid punishments if at all possible because I feel it is damaging to a child and serves no great purpose in getting them to understand how to be a good person that has compassion, empathy and the ability to respect their fellow human beings.

I also want to say I would never spank my child and I consider it abuse.

I could of course say more, but that is enough for now. Anyway, just my two cents.
 
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CRUE CAB said:
Yea, because spanking teaches so much. Pfffffft. Teaches that mom and or dad cant be trusted. My parents NEVER spanked me. I turned out great thanks to their parenting regardless of what you may think of me based on an internet forum.
And my parents took me everywhere with them. Resturants, movies, friends of theirs homes, funerals, weddings and never once did I make them regret it.
Click to expand...

It teaches them to fear their parents and the idea that to avoid pain they have to obey whatever the parent demands of them. Hardly a message a loving parent wants to convey to their children, imho.
 
My philosophy (as a non-parent) is that children need to understand that they are not in charge of their own lives. They need to have well laid out rules and expectations and there need to be consequences when they fail to live up to those expectations. Whether those consequences are "time outs", loss of privileges, or corporal in nature is up to the parent, so long as the child is properly taught that the rules are the rules, whether we like them or not, and one has to expect and be willing to endure the consequences of not obeying them.
 
CRUE CAB said:
Spanking shows you have lost control.
Click to expand...

I cannot agree. I was spanked. Sparingly. My father and mother still have my respect. And I am well disciplined. Hell i didn't drink or smoke or dip or chew (tobacco cause im not an idiot) until I turned 21. Didn't break laws. I was raised to believe in law and order and ethics and morals.

Beating is a sign of lost control. Just like driving...spanking shouldn't be done angry. Just ask Sheriff Andy Taylor.
 
stonewall50 said:
I cannot agree. I was spanked. Sparingly. My father and mother still have my respect. And I am well disciplined. Hell i didn't drink or smoke until I turned 21. Didn't break laws. I was raised to believe in law and order and ethics and morals.

Beating is a sign of lost control. Just like driving...spanking shouldn't be done angry. Just ask Sheriff Andy Taylor.
Click to expand...
I drink little, never smoked (anything) never got in any trouble till after I was 18 and out of the house. Mom and dad never laid a hand on me.
My wife's brothers were beat mercilessly and all are alcoholics, almost unemployable, violent people that look for a fight every chance they get. I am sure there is a middle f the road, but I will stick to what I was taught.
 
CRUE CAB said:
I drink little, never smoked (anything) never got in any trouble till after I was 18 and out of the house. Mom and dad never laid a hand on me.
My wife's brothers were beat mercilessly and all are alcoholics, almost unemployable, violent people that look for a fight every chance they get. I am sure there is a middle f the road, but I will stick to what I was taught.
Click to expand...

:) well sure there is a middle. I don't agree with merciless beatings. That is abuse. And I've seen it done and I know the results. But almost 90% I would guess of the kids I was raised with and went to school with were spanked. And most were good kids and ended up good. I know 1 kid who got no discipline and ended up a wife abusing, drug using and dealing, raping, stalking, and attempted murdering psychopath.
 
stonewall50 said:
I was just listening to "this American life" and it was about "bad" kids. There were some horror stories on this one, but that isn't what I want to discuss. I want to know how y'all feel about discipline.

I believe firmly in spanking. I am sure plenty of people object, but I know that almost everyone I grew up with was spanked. Of course the most important part is that it is a consistent punishment. I think what we see now more and more is inconsistent punishment.

I worked as a teacher and counselor and the amount of disrespect for elders is really high it seems. I think the reason is a lot of parents stand up for their children, take their kids word over the teacher/counselor/coach assuming their kid is god's gift, and then undermine any consistency in discipline that could be made. Anyway. Let me know.


Ps

If there is a better section for this I'm sorry. I wasn't sure where to put it.
Click to expand...

I've never had any children, so what I might have done I don't know. What I think I would have done is probably to spank them when they were little -- swats on the behind -- for things they were doing that scared the crap out of me because they were dangerous. I'd imagine it would be rare enough that a spank and a "monster voice" would make a lasting impression.

To me, once a child is, maybe, four or five years old? If a parent has laid and continues to lay consistent groundwork, spanking shouldn't be necessary. During my own upbringing, I was spanked just a few times that I remember -- under ten, probably. And the fact I remember them shows the impression they made at the time. (My dad slapped me once and profoundly/profusely apologized. He felt terrible. I probably deserved it. I think I was about 15.)

Mom had to gather her own switch for judicious punishment; dad was abused by his alcoholic father.

I have shirt-tail family that counts to three and dad takes off his belt. His little boy is about 5. I think he's a neanderthal.
 
CRUE CAB said:
Yea, because spanking teaches so much. Pfffffft. Teaches that mom and or dad cant be trusted. My parents NEVER spanked me. I turned out great thanks to their parenting regardless of what you may think of me based on an internet forum.
And my parents took me everywhere with them. Resturants, movies, friends of theirs homes, funerals, weddings and never once did I make them regret it.
Click to expand...

Some kids don't need disciple such as spanking, time out or anything more then a stern talking too. Others will push the line just to see what Mom or Dad will do, and nothing less then a swat on the butt will cure them of the habit.

It's not a matter of 'trust', most kids know that certain actions will get them a 'punishment', and will still do it.

I got my share of spankings, and it didn't violate the trust with my parents, and I turned out pretty good myself. I did learn that certain actions had bad repercussions, something that seems to be seriously lacking with a lot of kids these days.
 
GottaGo said:
Some kids don't need disciple such as spanking, time out or anything more then a stern talking too. Others will push the line just to see what Mom or Dad will do, and nothing less then a swat on the butt will cure them of the habit.

It's not a matter of 'trust', most kids know that certain actions will get them a 'punishment', and will still do it.

I got my share of spankings, and it didn't violate the trust with my parents, and I turned out pretty good myself. I did learn that certain actions had bad repercussions, something that seems to be seriously lacking with a lot of kids these days.
Click to expand...
I look at how people allow their children to dress and how the parents dress and act in public to see what the kids are going to do.
When we went out, my parents and me, I dressed like my dad. Suit, tie, polished shoes, hair combed. Now you go out to decent restaurants and and kids dress like its romper room and dad dresses like he just did a tune up on the old truck.
 
The currently popular parenting methods are focused on trying to get kids to do what we say. While following these popular parenting methods, many parents find themselves in a state of continual stress and frequent conflict with their children, resulting in unhappy parents and traumatized and stunted kids. One problem with just trying to get kids to do what we say is that this may conflict with other, more ambitious goals we have for them. Most parents say that they want their children to be happy, balanced, independent, fulfilled, productive, self-reliant, responsible, functioning, kind, thoughtful, loving, inquisitive, and confident. Few parents would beam at overhearing another adult say about their child: “Boy, that child does everything he’s told and you never hear a peep out of him.” But that is exactly the kind of outcome that popular parenting methods work towards, at the cost of those truly positive qualities. Demanding obedience and delivering corporal punishment, in which I view as leaning towards abuse, teaches kids that they are not individuals and they must succumb to the will of others. It also teaches our kids that violence is a good way to handle problems. Are these the messages we want to ingrain in our children? That violence solves problems, and that we do not own ourselves...that we are not individuals?
 
CRUE CAB said:
Yea, because spanking teaches so much. Pfffffft. Teaches that mom and or dad cant be trusted. My parents NEVER spanked me. I turned out great thanks to their parenting regardless of what you may think of me based on an internet forum.
And my parents took me everywhere with them. Resturants, movies, friends of theirs homes, funerals, weddings and never once did I make them regret it.
Click to expand...

As I said, it is highly dependent on the child. I required a firm hand to keep me from self-destructing or being an intolerable little bitch of a girl. One of my sisters is naturally complaint and very sweet-natured. She didn't need much in the way of hands-on discipline. It doesn't matter to me that you were the perfect child whose parents never needed to use the same form of discipline that I had. If we get what we need, we are fortunate. I got what I needed, and for that, I am grateful.
 
tacomancer said:
Here is my take on my own children

I do what I can to avoid spanking and instead use other forms of discipline. I know my kids and I spend a lot of time figuring out what makes them tick. Because if that I both spend a lot of time having a good bond building time with them. In that bond they respect me because they know that we have a deal. I let them be who they are unjudgmentally and because they know I am there for them, they respect and appreciate me. If they do or prepare to do something out of bounds then I discipline them but it is rare because the rules are consistent and they understand why they are there and I put them there out of concern for things like their safety.

The result is that my kids are exceptionally moral (to the point they confront me about stuff they disagree with), happy, imaginative, comfortable with themselves, and all are achieving their goals (school, karate, and ballet)

As the kids grow they may adopt life styles that aren't my preference but if I gave then a will towards compassion and strength they will very likely be fine anyway.

In terms of respect for adults in general, they tend to unless that adult does something questionable and honestly I council them to question the motivations of authority before going along with anything. They generally do that.

If my kids do wrong to a random adult though, I will call them out and they know that.

So many here seem to confuse respect with fear. Children need to respect adults but adults need to be worthy of respect in the eyes of a child too. It's a two way street and many forget that. Just telling a child do this or you're in trouble teaches them nothing, it's ok with an infant but not a child. No child, unless that child has had their spirit broken will respect just because and nor should they.
Click to expand...

Henrin said:
My philosophy on parenting is very different than most peoples as I don't believe punishment/criticism/consequences and rewards/praise are effective in getting kids to do what we want. I believe children do their best with unconditional love, respect and the opportunity to make their own choices even if those choices are mistakes. A parent that controls a child in my mind conveying to their kids that they love them conditionally; that is, only when they achieve or behave in the way the parents desire. I believe that children learn to make good decisions by actually making decisions, not by following directions by their parents. I believe it is important for a parent to expand the mind of their children by helping them solve problems, providing them with choices, and to learn how to use reason. That when a child misbehaves before lets say bedtime stories that their behavior should be discussed, and the reasons for the behavior addressed, instead of addressing the problem by robbing of them their bedtime stories that only conveys to the child that their reasons are not important and they will do what the parent wants or else they will do without whatever they enjoy in their lives. I don't believe that is treating the child as a human being deserving of respect, but treating them like they are insignificant and not worthy enough to listen to and understand. I try to avoid punishments if at all possible because I feel it is damaging to a child and serves no great purpose in getting them to understand how to be a good person that has compassion, empathy and the ability to respect their fellow human beings.

I also want to say I would never spank my child and I consider it abuse.

I could of course say more, but that is enough for now. Anyway, just my two cents.
Click to expand...

My parenting style was a mix of both your philosophies. I believe in forming a strong bond with my kid based on mutual respect, with the understanding that I have final say in most important decisions. I don't believe in spanking or most kinds of punishment, with the exception of temporary loss of privileges. I was strict when I had to be, certain things were non-negotiable and I cut a lot of slack on the smaller unimportant things. I let her stumble and fall and pick herself right back up, all the while lurking a few paces behind to help if she ever needed it. I mean this both literally and figuratively. My kid is now the most well-adjusted 19 year old I know, who recently thanked me for the way I raised her, especially when I was strict and uncompromising. We're not just mother and daughter but the best of friends now. She's the greatest success in my life.
 
Kids learn what they live. The most important thing that any parent can provide a child is example.

Oh, and they don't listen to what you say, at least not much. They mostly watch what the adults in their lives do.
 
Arcana XV said:
My parenting style was a mix of both your philosophies. I believe in forming a strong bond with my kid based on mutual respect, with the understanding that I have final say in most important decisions. I don't believe in spanking or most kinds of punishment, with the exception of temporary loss of privileges. I was strict when I had to be, certain things were non-negotiable and I cut a lot of slack on the smaller unimportant things. I let her stumble and fall and pick herself right back up, all the while lurking a few paces behind to help if she ever needed it. I mean this both literally and figuratively. My kid is now the most well-adjusted 19 year old I know, who recently thanked me for the way I raised her, especially when I was strict and uncompromising. We're not just mother and daughter but the best of friends now. She's the greatest success in my life.
Click to expand...

That is similar to my goals too. I want my children to be free thinkers and completely comfortable with themselves over whatever life may throw at them.
 
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