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How Jesus Became God

calamity

calamity

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I originally planned to post this in the RD Forum but quickly realized that would limit the conversation to Kool Aid BS. If we are not free to question the whole concept, then the conversation would be too limiting.

My idea here has us discussing all aspects of the Jesus myth. For instance how can a ragtag preacher of a death cult:
Jesus was a lower-class preacher from Galilee, who, in good apocalyptic fashion, proclaimed that the end of history as he knew it was going to come to a crashing end, within his own generation...
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end up becoming not just the proclaimed son of god, but God himself?

...his followers began to say that -- despite all evidence to the contrary -- Jesus really was the messiah sent from God. More than that, he was actually a divine being, not a mere human. And not just any divine being. He was the Creator of the universe. After long debates among themselves they decided that he was not secondary to the one God of Israel, the Lord God Almighty himself. On the contrary, he was fully equal with God; he had always existed for eternity with God; he was of the same essence as God; he was a member of the Trinity.

How did that happen?
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Yes. How? And, what's it matter--from a non-religious point of view. After all, if Christ had remained some nameless preacher from a little known cult, most of the past two thousand years would have played out completely different.

If Christianity were not a large and viable religion by the beginning of the fourth century, the emperor Constantine would almost certainly not have converted to it. If Constantine had not converted, masses of former pagans would not have accepted the faith in his wake. The empire would not have become predominantly Christian. The Christian religion would not have been made the official religion of the state. The Christian church would never have become the dominant religious, cultural, social, political, and economic force of the West. We never would have had the Middle Ages, the Renaissance, the Reformation, or Modernity as we know it. And most of us would still be pagans.

All these developments hinged on the declaration that Jesus was God.

How Jesus Became God*|*Bart D. Ehrman
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But, how did this happen. Why do a billion people believe that this Jesus man was actually God?
 
calamity said:
I originally planned to post this in the RD Forum but quickly realized that would limit the conversation to Kool Aid BS. If we are not free to question the whole concept, then the conversation would be too limiting.

My idea here has us discussing all aspects of the Jesus myth.
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Stopped reading after "jesus myth." Nothing worse than trying to debate someone who's already made up their mind.
 
Wessexman said:
If this is to be a sincere discussion, why frame it with the views of one rather controversial scholar?
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Feel free to throw in views of other less controversial scholars.
 
Peter Grimm said:
Stopped reading after "jesus myth." Nothing worse than trying to debate someone who's already made up their mind.
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In the absence of hard evidence to the contrary, it is a myth.
 
Peter Grimm said:
Stopped reading after "jesus myth." Nothing worse than trying to debate someone who's already made up their mind.
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You haven't already made up your mind that it isn't a myth?
 
calamity said:
:roll:
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Roll your eyes all you want. Maybe you should wonder why the religion that believed Jesus was just a man is only at 14 million while those who believe Jesus is God is at 2.1 billion and even if you count the 1.4 billion Muslims ho see Jesus as a prophet who preformed his miracles with God's power that is 3.7 billion people. So while you might ask how can 3.7 billion people could have been tricked to believe lie while just 14 million stuck with the "truth", Occam's razor would suggest you already have the answer
 
Crovax said:
Roll your eyes all you want. Maybe you should wonder why the religion that believed Jesus was just a man is only at 14 million while those who believe Jesus is God is at 2.1 billion and even if you count the 1.4 billion Muslims ho see Jesus as a prophet who preformed his miracles with God's power that is 3.7 billion people. So while you might ask how can 3.7 billion people could have been tricked to believe lie while just 14 million stuck with the "truth", Occam's razor would suggest you already have the answer
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Argumentum ad populum.
 
calamity said:
I originally planned to post this in the RD Forum but quickly realized that would limit the conversation to Kool Aid BS. If we are not free to question the whole concept, then the conversation would be too limiting.

My idea here has us discussing all aspects of the Jesus myth. For instance how can a ragtag preacher of a death cult:


end up becoming not just the proclaimed son of god, but God himself?


Yes. How? And, what's it matter--from a non-religious point of view. After all, if Christ had remained some nameless preacher from a little known cult, most of the past two thousand years would have played out completely different.



But, how did this happen. Why do a billion people believe that this Jesus man was actually God?
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Let's just say the miracles he performed were true. If a guy came to you walking across the water, turning water into wine, feeding thousands of people with a few loaves of bread and fish, then started healing the sick, lame and blind, while raising the dead, I bet the first thing you'd ask him is "what are you, God"?
 
He spontaneously became god. Just like the big bang spontaneously appeared out of nothing...
 
Manny said:
He spontaneously became god. Just like the big bang spontaneously appeared out of nothing...
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Probably not. The Big Bang broke through from another Dimension. Certain powerful people based in Rome pushed the Jesus is God idea, probably as a rallying cry to get idiots to fight for the empire.

Christians back then were like today's Muslim suicide bombers. Martyring oneself was the highest honor. Hell, Jesus supposedly did it, and he's God.
 
grip said:
Let's just say the miracles he performed were true. If a guy came to you walking across the water, turning water into wine, feeding thousands of people with a few loaves of bread and fish, then started healing the sick, lame and blind, while raising the dead, I bet the first thing you'd ask him is "what are you, God"?
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If someone did that, and it wasn't a magician's trick, I'd believe. But, we all know that Jesus doing those things was something which was written after he died. THe real man named Jesus did no such thing.
 
Crovax said:
Roll your eyes all you want. Maybe you should wonder why the religion that believed Jesus was just a man is only at 14 million while those who believe Jesus is God is at 2.1 billion and even if you count the 1.4 billion Muslims ho see Jesus as a prophet who preformed his miracles with God's power that is 3.7 billion people. So while you might ask how can 3.7 billion people could have been tricked to believe lie while just 14 million stuck with the "truth", Occam's razor would suggest you already have the answer
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A billion people believe in Hinduism, which has nearly half that many gods. Are you sure you want numbers to dictate what is real?

Atheists make up less than 4% of the global population, but yet all the evidence presented to this day supports their position over that of the other 96%.
 
calamity said:
A billion people believe in Hinduism, which has nearly half that many gods. Are you sure you want numbers to dictate what is real?

Atheists make up less than 4% of the global population, but yet all the evidence presented to this day supports their position over that of the other 96%.
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We are talking about how you think Jesus go elevated to God. Only the Abrahamic religions count as far as that is concerned. If Jesus didn't preform some sort of miracles then Judaism would be the predominate Abrahamic religion, yet they make up just .4% of Abrahamic religion followers
 
calamity said:
If someone did that, and it wasn't a magician's trick, I'd believe. But, we all know that Jesus doing those things was something which was written after he died. THe real man named Jesus did no such thing.
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How do we know what Jesus did, we weren't there?
 
calamity said:
I originally planned to post this in the RD Forum but quickly realized that would limit the conversation to Kool Aid BS. If we are not free to question the whole concept, then the conversation would be too limiting.

My idea here has us discussing all aspects of the Jesus myth. For instance how can a ragtag preacher of a death cult:
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First off Christ wasn't part of a death cult so i am not sure where this person gets this information from. In fact Christs overall message is the opposite of death and is mostly about life. So here is the first claim that has major issues.

end up becoming not just the proclaimed son of god, but God himself?
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No where in the bible does Christ ever proclaim to be God, but consistently adheres to the claim of being the Son or God and the Son of Man.
so here is the second claim that has no backing at all.

Yes. How? And, what's it matter--from a non-religious point of view. After all, if Christ had remained some nameless preacher from a little known cult, most of the past two thousand years would have played out completely different.
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3rd point Christ was not a preacher. He was not even a priest. He was not part of the Sanhedrin. he is commonly refered to in those days as teacher.


But, how did this happen. Why do a billion people believe that this Jesus man was actually God?
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Why do you believe the stuff you do? because someone presented enough evidence to convince you that it was true. The same goes for people that believe in Christ. They have seen heard or have enough information to believe that he is the Son of God.
 
grip said:
How do we know what Jesus did, we weren't there?
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We have writings from the people that either knew Jesus or his followers.

Matthew also know as Levi was a follwer.
Mark was an interpreter for Peter who was a follower of Christ.
Luke knew Paul who later in life knew the disciples.
Then John who was again a follower of Christ.

So all of the Gospels have their own perspective based on the writing but were all connected to Jesus in one way or another.
Luke also was a noted scholar and historian of high reputation.
 
calamity said:
Christians back then were like today's Muslim suicide bombers.
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Agnostics are child molesters.

As fun as it is to make comments that are completely ridiculous, extremely outrageous, and personally offensive, I prefer to stick with facts.

Speaking of facts, how many people did the Roman Christians kill?
 
calamity said:
Translation--"I can't handle the truth."
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Not everyone finds it amusing for very long, watching you kick against the pricks. As you continue to do so, it only stands to reason that for more and more people, it's just going to wear increasingly thin.
 
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