• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!
  • Welcome to our archives. No new posts are allowed here.

Jury Duty For A Murder Case

rhinefire

rhinefire

DP Veteran
Joined
May 3, 2007
Messages
10,399
Reaction score
3,021
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Independent
Could you vote for the death penalty if you voted to convict a person of murder? I was called not too long ago and surprising myself I was hesitant about sitting on a jury for a murder trial then I thought I would be very troubled to vote on a death penalty sentence as I sat looking at the accused. It is very different when you are looking at the accused sitting 30 feet away.
 
I couldn't. I don't believe in the death penalty so I couldn't support condemning someone to death.
 
I personally could not, no.
 
I believe that the instincts of the public are correct on this issue: namely, that the punishment should fit the crime; i.e., that punishment should be proportional to the crime involved. The theoretical justification for this is that an aggressor loses his rights to the extent that he has violated the rights of another human being. If A steals $10,000 from B, he should be forced, not only to return the $10,000 (the "restitutionist" position, with which most libertarians would agree), but he also loses his rights to his own $10,000; that is, he should be forced to pay the victim $10,000 for his aggression. - Murray Rothbard

He murdered someone and he violated their rights.
 
rhinefire said:
Could you vote for the death penalty if you voted to convict a person of murder? I was called not too long ago and surprising myself I was hesitant about sitting on a jury for a murder trial then I thought I would be very troubled to vote on a death penalty sentence as I sat looking at the accused. It is very different when you are looking at the accused sitting 30 feet away.
Click to expand...

That'd be no problem for me at all. I'm not sure I'd vote for it, however. My deliberations with the other jury members would be to remind them that life in prison is a greater punishment. I believe it is. However, if most other people wanted the death penalty, I'd most assuredly vote for it.

The Ted Bundys and John Gacys of this world get much too easy an exit, in my opinion. Live in prison, locked in a cage for fifty years. Get beat up...be somebody's bitch. And then die alone in the prison infirmary without family and friends at your side. Much worse than execution.
 
MaggieD said:
The Ted Bundys and John Gacys of this world get much too easy an exit, in my opinion. Live in prison, locked in a cage for fifty years. Get beat up...be somebody's bitch. And then die alone in the prison infirmary without family and friends at your side. Much worse than execution.
Click to expand...
I find this a cowardly attitude to be honest. If you think someone should be violently raped, beaten to a pulp and left to die in an infirmary bed, you should argue for that to be the formally stated sentence, written, signed and agreed by government on your behalf. Relying on the corruption and incompetence of your criminal "justice" system to do the job for you (which is may of may not do) isn't worthy of civilisation.
 
HonestJoe said:
I find this a cowardly attitude to be honest. If you think someone should be violently raped, beaten to a pulp and left to die in an infirmary bed, you should argue for that to be the formally stated sentence, written, signed and agreed by government on your behalf. Relying on the corruption and incompetence of your criminal "justice" system to do the job for you (which is may of may not do) isn't worthy of civilisation.
Click to expand...

For the life of me, I can't figure out why you find my view on the subject cowardly. It may be vengeful or some other adjective. But cowardly??
 
rhinefire said:
Could you vote for the death penalty if you voted to convict a person of murder? I was called not too long ago and surprising myself I was hesitant about sitting on a jury for a murder trial then I thought I would be very troubled to vote on a death penalty sentence as I sat looking at the accused. It is very different when you are looking at the accused sitting 30 feet away.
Click to expand...


Yes I could, however just because I could doesn't mean I would.

Conviction and sentencing are normally two different phases of a case. First you convict, once that determination is made then you vote on the sentence. In a capital murder case you have a choice of life (with or without parole depending on the state) and death (depending on the state). I can vote for guilty on the basis of lack of reasonable doubt. In other words the State has proven their case that beyond a reasonable doubt the accused committed the murder. Fine not problem with that. On to the sentencing phase. Here is gets a little trickier and I'm now speaking of my opinion and not necessarily the law - to vote for death I have (IMPO) have to have met a standard of absolute certainty that the crime was committed in the manner presented in court. If I'm convinced, not a problem, I can vote for the death penalty (I mean my will to choose here). If the state hasn't met that burden then I would for life instead.



>>>>
 
MaggieD said:
For the life of me, I can't figure out why you find my view on the subject cowardly. It may be vengeful or some other adjective. But cowardly??
Click to expand...
You're talking about just sticking people in prison and hoping something bad happens to them. This means you don't have to think about the unpleasant details and keeps your hands clean. It doesn't necessarily work either but that's not your problem either. It's about what you imagine is happening to the criminals rather than what actually happens, meeting your revenge fantasies rather than actual punishment.

If you (and society as a whole) can't face up to explicitly ordering and arranging whatever horrific punishment you want inflicted upon criminals, maybe that punishment isn't as legitimate as you might like to imagine it is.
 
If a defendant can be proven guilty of murder, with no shadow of doubt whatsoever, and there is no apparent supporting emotional basis for killing (ie crime of passion), I can and do support the death penalty. Imo, when you go completely feral, and refuse to act according to the higher side of your humanity, you forfeit your rights to be treated as such.
 
I do whatever I can to get out of jury duty so it doesnt matter to me. I heard from someone that if you ask about jury nullification during the jury selection process its a surefire way of not being selected to the jury pool.
 
HonestJoe said:
You're talking about just sticking people in prison and hoping something bad happens to them. This means you don't have to think about the unpleasant details and keeps your hands clean. It doesn't necessarily work either but that's not your problem either. It's about what you imagine is happening to the criminals rather than what actually happens, meeting your revenge fantasies rather than actual punishment.

If you (and society as a whole) can't ly ordering and arranging whatever horrific punishment you want inflicted upon criminals, maybe that punishment isn't as legitimate as you might like to imagine it is.
Click to expand...

Being locked up in a jail cell for the rest of one's life isn't for sissies. And lots of sissies find that out. To repeat, I have no problem with the death penalty. I just happen to think that being locked up for life is worse. We're all going to die. Dying by lethal injection is far too easy.

Edit:

Of course, there's always this good news:

A new report from the American Civil Liberties Union, “A Death Before Dying: Solitary Confinement on Death Row,” contains a survey of the conditions on death rows across the country and offers a comprehensive review of the serious implications of subjecting inmates to solitary confinement. The report reveals that most death row prisoners are housed in tiny cells, ranging from 36-100 square feet, roughly the size of an average bathroom; 93% of states lock up their death row prisoners for 22 or more hours a day. The report is accompanied by a video featuring Anthony Graves, who spent several years in solitary confinement on Texas’s death row before he was exonerated and released in 2010. Graves described solitary confinement as “like living in a dark hole.” He wrote, “I saw the people living on death row fall apart. One guy suffered some of his last days smearing feces, lying naked in the recreation yard, and urinating on himself. I saw guys who dropped their appeals and elected to die because of the intolerable conditions. To sum it up, I saw a bunch of dead men walking because of the conditions that killed everything inside of them.”
Click to expand...
 
PoS said:
I do whatever I can to get out of jury duty so it doesnt matter to me. I heard from someone that if you ask about jury nullification during the jury selection process its a surefire way of not being selected to the jury pool.
Click to expand...

Pretty sad, really.
 
I think the phrase is "death penalty qualified"? I'm not. I oppose the death penalty, and just one reason, as Maggie has said, is that it's too easy.
 
rhinefire said:
Could you vote for the death penalty if you voted to convict a person of murder? I was called not too long ago and surprising myself I was hesitant about sitting on a jury for a murder trial then I thought I would be very troubled to vote on a death penalty sentence as I sat looking at the accused. It is very different when you are looking at the accused sitting 30 feet away.
Click to expand...

I would have no problem with that and could do my civic duty accordingly.

If you purchased someones home and closed on it and got the keys and went in to take occupancy and were immediately hit by a terribly foul odor causing a stench in the air, you would search it out. If you found a toilet filled with human waste - you would flush the toilet.

That is America and the society we live in. Some people are just five or six feet of stacked human waste and should be flushed away if all the facts are pointing to that. It is not fair to the taxpayers to ask them to spend up to $40 grand a year or more for the next fifty or so years to house that person.

I would not care if they were sitting five feet from me or if I had to witness the execution.... I would still be ready to perform my civic duty.
 
MaggieD said:
Being locked up in a jail cell for the rest of one's life isn't for sissies. And lots of sissies find that out.
Click to expand...
Yes, I'm sure you wouldn't last five minutes. That's evading the point I was making though.

MaggieD said:
To repeat, I have no problem with the death penalty. I just happen to think that being locked up for life is worse. We're all going to die. Dying by lethal injection is far too easy.
Click to expand...
You've not presented any real solutions though. If you think there should be a more "difficult" method of execution, why not present it? Again, sending people to prison and hoping the other prisoners do something nasty to them is hardly a solution.
 
rhinefire said:
Could you vote for the death penalty if you voted to convict a person of murder? I was called not too long ago and surprising myself I was hesitant about sitting on a jury for a murder trial then I thought I would be very troubled to vote on a death penalty sentence as I sat looking at the accused. It is very different when you are looking at the accused sitting 30 feet away.
Click to expand...

I would never vote to kill someone, under any circumstances. State Murder is still murder.
 
HonestJoe said:
Yes, I'm sure you wouldn't last five minutes. That's evading the point I was making though.

You've not presented any real solutions though. If you think there should be a more "difficult" method of execution, why not present it? Again, sending people to prison and hoping the other prisoners do something nasty to them is hardly a solution.
Click to expand...

I'm not for a more difficult means of execution. I think you're rather grasping to keep this dialogue going. I've been very clear on my views: Execution is too easy.

Oh, wait. Maybe I could go for solitary confinement as the worst possible sentence one could receive. I'd have no problem with that. IMO, the very worst part of the death sentence is that one is held on death row and in most prisons, that means solitary until the sentence is carried out.

So, yeah, that'd be my fallback. Again. I just think execution in and of itself is too easy.
 
MaggieD said:
I'm not for a more difficult means of execution. I think you're rather grasping to keep this dialogue going. I've been very clear on my views: Execution is too easy.

Oh, wait. Maybe I could go for solitary confinement as the worst possible sentence one could receive. I'd have no problem with that. IMO, the very worst part of the death sentence is that one is held on death row and in most prisons, that means solitary until the sentence is carried out.

So, yeah, that'd be my fallback. Again. I just think execution in and of itself is too easy.
Click to expand...

So what do you want torture?
 
RGacky3 said:
So what do you want torture?
Click to expand...

What is so hard to understand my position? In my opinion, it is far more difficult to spend thirty years locked down in a prison...to have time to think about what might have been...to miss one's children growing up...to miss family and friends...to lose almost any freedom of action except perhaps to take a leak...to contemplate one's sins...to die alone in a prison infirmary...than it is to get a shot and go to sleep. Jesus. It's not rocket science.
 
MaggieD said:
What is so hard to understand my position? In my opinion, it is far more difficult to spend thirty years locked down in a prison...to have time to think about what might have been...to miss one's children growing up...to miss family and friends...to lose almost any freedom of action except perhaps to take a leak...to contemplate one's sins...to die alone in a prison infirmary...than it is to get a shot and go to sleep. Jesus. It's not rocket science.
Click to expand...

No it's not rocket science, but its also not really thought through, so your opposition to the Death penalty is that it's not hard enough? So you're prefer psychological torture.

I oppose the Death penalty because I dont' believe anyone (especially not the state) has the right to take the life of another person.

So Your you have no problem With killing someone, you'd just rather them suffer in other ways.

Whether or not it's more difficult, or painful, shouldn't come into it at all, unless you're as vengeful and sociopathic as those that push for the Death penalty.

But you're wrong anyway, Death row inmates try everything, to prolong their life and not get executed.
 
If I feel the person deserves it, then I have no problem with voting for it. There are sicko's out there that do not deserve to live. Is it easier on them? Probably. Do I care about that? Nope. I figure I would rather do what is easier for me to have to deal with than their thoughts or whatever. IMO its much better to put them to death and forget about them than to let them live and possibly find one of the many cracks and/or loopholes that exists in our system that could end up them getting back on the street again which puts them in a position of committing the same crime again.

Yeah, might be nice to think that they are getting what amounts to torture by keeping them alive and subject to other sicko's but in the end I prefer finality to vengence. Of course I also believe that our system should be more oriented towards dealing with problems and not just hiding them away.
 
RGacky3 said:
No it's not rocket science, but its also not really thought through, so your opposition to the Death penalty is that it's not hard enough? So you're prefer psychological torture.

I oppose the Death penalty because I dont' believe anyone (especially not the state) has the right to take the life of another person.

So Your you have no problem With killing someone, you'd just rather them suffer in other ways.

Whether or not it's more difficult, or painful, shouldn't come into it at all, unless you're as vengeful and sociopathic as those that push for the Death penalty.

But you're wrong anyway, Death row inmates try everything, to prolong their life and not get executed.
Click to expand...

Just a note here but not having the death penalty would really only be worth it if we lived in a utopian type society where no one commits atrocities OR such people can be "corrected" every single time with 100.00% effectiveness.
 
Kal'Stang said:
Just a note here but not having the death penalty would really only be worth it if we lived in a utopian type society where no one commits atrocities OR such people can be "corrected" every single time with 100.00% effectiveness.
Click to expand...

Given that most of the world, InFact all of the civilized world doesn't practice the Death penalty and condemns it, I'd say you're empirically wrong.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom