• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!
  • Welcome to our archives. No new posts are allowed here.

"Dark" Entertainment

Goshin said:
As a society, we do seem more and more to let our eyes and thoughts linger on things that are malevolent, morbid or corrupt than was once the case.


There was supposedly a study once, that in good times people watched horror and crime movies more, but in bad times they wanted to see comedies and musicals... sort of like the happy people with no problems wanted to see something scary or horrifying or dark, while those whose lives were filled with sadness and struggle and disappointment wanted something to cheer them up.
Click to expand...

Strange that sort of the opposite seems to be taking place now as far as I can tell. Everything seems to have gotten "darker and grittier" in general since 9/11 and the onset of the recession.

Just look at the difference between Tim Burton or Schumacher's Batman movies and the Dark Knight, for instance.
 
To be frank, I don't think there's any irradicating our darker nature. It's part of being human.

Do I think this is bad? No. Look what people did when they didn't have creative outlets for their darker impulses. They went to hangings for entertainment. They tortured animals for fun. They stoned people as a group bonding activity.

I recall Neil Gaiman writing about a case where a man was standing trial for having cartoon child porn. He was ultimately acquitted, on the basis that no actual children were harmed, and that this sort of thing seems to curb some people's desire to do it to, you know... live children.

And I have to say, there seems to be a basis for that even with relatively normal people. The saturation level of the news makes it seem like violence happens constantly, but really, in the grand scheme of human history, it doesn't. We're getting less violent all the time in the long view.

This might be one reason why. So, play away.
 
SmokeAndMirrors said:
To be frank, I don't think there's any irradicating our darker nature. It's part of being human.

Do I think this is bad? No. Look what people did when they didn't have creative outlets for their darker impulses. They went to hangings for entertainment. They tortured animals for fun. They stoned people as a group bonding activity.

I recall Neil Gaiman writing about a case where a man was standing trial for having cartoon child porn. He was ultimately acquitted, on the basis that no actual children were harmed, and that this sort of thing seems to curb some people's desire to do it to, you know... live children.

And I have to say, there seems to be a basis for that even with relatively normal people. The saturation level of the news makes it seem like violence happens constantly, but really, in the grand scheme of human history, it doesn't. We're getting less violent all the time in the long view.

This might be one reason why. So, play away.
Click to expand...

But I think it's a bit asinine to argue that: "If they can't engage in it fictitiously then they'll do it in real life. Having it in a game or a book will ensure they do not commit the actual crime."

That's actually bull.

If they banned any and all violent video games I will NEVER leave the house one day to MURDER someone. If no one wrote crime stories would we suddenly be going out and raping, murdering and robbing people for fun? Nope. If no one wrote sex stories would people be running out to have more sex to make up for the loss? Nope.

People who DO these things are not functioning on the same level as people who find them being just entertainment in a game or in a story.

Please - I write some screwed up junk in my stories and I don't want people thinking that it's my 'real-life crime alternative' because it's not.
 
Aunt Spiker said:
But I think it's a bit asinine to argue that: "If they can't engage in it fictitiously then they'll do it in real life. Having it in a game or a book will ensure they do not commit the actual crime."

That's actually bull.

If they banned any and all violent video games I will NEVER leave the house one day to MURDER someone. If no one wrote crime stories would we suddenly be going out and raping, murdering and robbing people for fun? Nope. If no one wrote sex stories would people be running out to have more sex to make up for the loss? Nope.

People who DO these things are not functioning on the same level as people who find them being just entertainment in a game or in a story.

Please - I write some screwed up junk in my stories and I don't want people thinking that it's my 'real-life crime alternative' because it's not.
Click to expand...

Oh, the indignity! Sorry, that's what humanity was like.

It's not about what's happening this second. It's how you grow up, and how you see people indulging their dark side. Fact is, that kind of sadistic **** is what people did.
 
We've been creating "dark" entertainment for a very very long time. Hamlet is pretty freaking dark, wouldn't you say? Titus Adronicus is, too. How about Oedipus? Or the Illiad? This is not a recent thing. It's as old as time.
 
Gathomas88 said:
Sooo... I was searching around the web the other day, and I came across a trailer for the following game.

Steam - Plague Inc.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pSat_gLDXPc

It seems to basically be a global pandemic simulator. The twist, however; is that instead of being from the perspective of the people fighting the plague, it is rather made from the perspective of the plague itself.

That's right, your objective in this game is to try to wipe out the human race in the most time and resource efficient manner possible, using a custom tailored pathogen.

Here's a list of its primary selling points, to illustrate the point.



I'm sorry, but does all of this strike anyone else as being a bit... I dunno, horrible? :lol:

The sad part is that I'm actually rather curious to play it myself. It looks kind of interesting.

While it is arguably just "fun and games," I can't help but notice a bit of a trend here in modern media. Popular culture appears to be getting generally more dark, morbid, and unethical across the board.

Why is this, and does it bother anyone else?

Is it healthy for individuals and society in general to so freely revel in the darker aspects of human nature?

I suppose that it isn't anything new in the grand scheme of things. "Blood sports" of all kinds have been common throughout human history, after all, and I suppose it is better for the carnage we apparently crave to be simulated, rather than genuine.

However, it is sort of interesting to see how much more common this kind of entertainment has become in recent decades than it was in the early or mid twentieth century. It's like it's become acceptable to engage in fantasies of being a terrible human being all of the sudden.

Edit:

Additional examples.

Happy Wheels Highlights

Crusader Kings 2 Trailer

Dexer - TV Series
Click to expand...
In any wargame someone has to play the enemy. If this game is even halfway close to "real" (it's basic concepts and premises) then the CDC should require it for all it's members, especially field personnel.

There's nothing new in "blood sports" at all. Cowboys & Indians, Cops & Robbers, whatever children's pretend games like that you'd care to name, have been part of American childhood for at least a century. The only thing that's changed, as you've noted, is that it's now OK to be the bad guy. I'm not sure that's a bad thing. Later on, as adults, the new generation may actually be able to solve some of our social problems because they played "the bad guy" as children. You can't fix what you don't understand.
 
Last edited:
Gathomas88 said:
Sooo... I was searching around the web the other day, and I came across a trailer for the following game.

Steam - Plague Inc.



It seems to basically be a global pandemic simulator. The twist, however; is that instead of being from the perspective of the people fighting the plague, it is rather made from the perspective of the plague itself.

That's right, your objective in this game is to try to wipe out the human race in the most time and resource efficient manner possible, using a custom tailored pathogen.

Here's a list of its primary selling points, to illustrate the point.



I'm sorry, but does all of this strike anyone else as being a bit... I dunno, horrible? :lol:

The sad part is that I'm actually rather curious to play it myself. It looks kind of interesting.

While it is arguably just "fun and games," I can't help but notice a bit of a trend here in modern media. Popular culture appears to be getting generally more dark, morbid, and unethical across the board.

Why is this, and does it bother anyone else?

Is it healthy for individuals and society in general to so freely revel in the darker aspects of human nature?

I suppose that it isn't anything new in the grand scheme of things. "Blood sports" of all kinds have been common throughout human history, after all, and I suppose it is better for the carnage we apparently crave to be simulated, rather than genuine.

However, it is sort of interesting to see how much more common this kind of entertainment has become in recent decades than it was in the early or mid twentieth century. It's like it's become acceptable to engage in fantasies of being a terrible human being all of the sudden.

Edit:

Additional examples.

Happy Wheels Highlights

Crusader Kings 2 Trailer

Dexer - TV Series
Click to expand...



I ask my father once why the News was always about shocking and terrible content, and he said, it's human nature. When you think about it, if games, movies and the News were more about peaceful and positive events, we'd snooze thru them. It seems to be a chemical response that danger, horror and shocking events cause our adrenals to respond, which gets us excited.

It's a little immature and idiotic though, when we turn the whole menagerie of entertainment, culture and daily news into subjects, primarily about death and mayhem.
 
Chocolate said:
I kind of feel like you are being ignorant. do you really think this is a videogame sold? you can download this off the internet. it's disgusting you can play games like this about rape, beastality, incest, furries, scat, children. They are made by fat perverts for basement dwelling sickos. I think this post is useless it's like saying books are having more and more rape in them because some guy wrote in the bathroom of some gas station that he rapes woman. this is so stupid. I can't even believe you would post this

Every form of media has this. stop acting like it's common or accepted at all.

Oh also this thread is about the shift of popular media into a darker tone, not some random japanise underground rape game that 100 perverts downloaded off a virus infesation of a website. but thanks for contributing whatever it is you happend to contribute to this post?
Click to expand...
And you're criticizing someone else for stereo-typing?!? :lol:
 
Goshin said:
As a society, we do seem more and more to let our eyes and thoughts linger on things that are malevolent, morbid or corrupt than was once the case.


There was supposedly a study once, that in good times people watched horror and crime movies more, but in bad times they wanted to see comedies and musicals... sort of like the happy people with no problems wanted to see something scary or horrifying or dark, while those whose lives were filled with sadness and struggle and disappointment wanted something to cheer them up.
Click to expand...
I've seen similar comparisons from others and, as far as I know, it's never been debunked or proved wrong as the case may be. I've never been able to find the study (or studies) though. However, it does make a certain amount of sense - at least the lighter fare for bad times makes sense. When there are bad times in the real world, who wants to watch a movie to remind you of what you're trying to forget for a couple of hours?
 
Gathomas88 said:
Strange that sort of the opposite seems to be taking place now as far as I can tell. Everything seems to have gotten "darker and grittier" in general since 9/11 and the onset of the recession.

Just look at the difference between Tim Burton or Schumacher's Batman movies and the Dark Knight, for instance.
Click to expand...



Perhaps we are simply becoming more decadent. Wouldn't surprise me.
 
Gathomas88 said:
Strange that sort of the opposite seems to be taking place now as far as I can tell. Everything seems to have gotten "darker and grittier" in general since 9/11 and the onset of the recession.

Just look at the difference between Tim Burton or Schumacher's Batman movies and the Dark Knight, for instance.
Click to expand...

Sometimes that's accurate, but I am willing to bet its a confluence of influences which have done that. Nevertheless, I think we should also be reminded of the very interesting difference between film and literature that preceded or had been published during WWI and afterwards. When the highly-debated term "film noir" became prevalent all around the world, there was a number of cultural influences which were credited with fostering that environment.

We will see waves. Personally, I am hoping that the romanticism of a lot of pre-Pale Rider, Unforgiven westerns will make a comeback. ;) Actually, I'm hoping for westerns, period :p
 
Aunt Spiker said:
I've killed over 1,000,000 computerized people - technically, I'm guilty of genocide.

Germ warfare sounds like fun.
Click to expand...

It sounds intriguing...plague as seen from the plague's point of view. Is there a moral answer at the end...like what happens to the plague when everyone is dead? Does it just go into hibernation until things return to normal and there are people to infect again? That might explain why plagues do return after long intervals of time.

Stop killing all the computerized people, Aunt Spiker...there won't be anybody left for my nephews to find! :mrgreen:.

Greetings, Aunt Spiker. :2wave:
 
Goshin said:
As a society, we do seem more and more to let our eyes and thoughts linger on things that are malevolent, morbid or corrupt than was once the case.


There was supposedly a study once, that in good times people watched horror and crime movies more, but in bad times they wanted to see comedies and musicals... sort of like the happy people with no problems wanted to see something scary or horrifying or dark, while those whose lives were filled with sadness and struggle and disappointment wanted something to cheer them up.
Click to expand...

That was why Shirley Temple...RIP...was such a big hit during the Depression, I guess. People wanted to see happy children and forget their troubles for a while? Makes sense! Is there a difference in attitude now, and how does that fit with what we see today? It seems like there is more underlying anger today than the general resignation that people exhibited back then. Interesting...

Greetings, Goshin. :2wave:
 
Gathomas88 said:
While it is arguably just "fun and games," I can't help but notice a bit of a trend here in modern media. Popular culture appears to be getting generally more dark, morbid, and unethical across the board.
Click to expand...

Read Shakespeare, it's as dark as anything. :lol:

Hell, in Shakespeare's time, they would have shows were the whole point was to watch a dog get eaten by a bear. That's actual violence and cruelty.

So, no, it's not become more common. I'd say we've become much more ethical with our actions, and our entertainment has stayed around the same.
 
Your Star said:
Read Shakespeare, it's as dark as anything. :lol:

Hell, in Shakespeare's time, they would have shows were the whole point was to watch a dog get eaten by a bear. That's actual violence and cruelty.

So, no, it's not become more common. I'd say we've become much more ethical with our actions, and our entertainment has stayed around the same.
Click to expand...

I was saying that it had become more common in relation to our own more recent history.

The twentieth century in the West, by and large, has actually managed to be rather tame in this regard. That trend seems to be reversing itself now.

Thankfully, the violence in question is only simulated. However, I would still argue that it makes for an interesting cultural development to study either way regardless.
 
Gathomas88 said:
I was saying that it had become more common in relation to our own more recent history.

The twentieth century in the West, by and large, has actually managed to be rather tame in this regard. That trend seems to be reversing itself now.

Thankfully, the violence in question is only simulated. However, I would still argue that it makes for an interesting cultural development to study either way regardless.
Click to expand...

I don't even agree with that. For every Leave it to Beaver, there would be a bunch of pieces of entertainment that would qualify as "dark".

Society as a whole may have looked down upon them, but that society repression doesn't mean they didn't exist, or that the people who in public condemned such things enjoyed them as well.

The biggest change from then and now is access. We have access to so much more information than people did just 20 years ago. The internet is one of our greatest accomplishments and it touches every aspect of our society.
 
Your Star said:
I don't even agree with that. For every Leave it to Beaver, there would be a bunch of pieces of entertainment that would qualify as "dark".

Society as a whole may have looked down upon them, but that society repression doesn't mean they didn't exist, or that the people who in public condemned such things enjoyed them as well.

The biggest change from then and now is access. We have access to so much more information than people did just 20 years ago. The internet is one of our greatest accomplishments and it touches every aspect of our society .
Click to expand...

And this is leading to an explosion of not only "dark" material for general consumption that wasn't present in the past, but the general level of "darkness" in that material to grow progressively worse over time.

That was kind of my point in the first place.

Maybe this represents a legitimate cultural shift, and maybe it simply represents the results of a jaded society having to up the ante on shock value in order to offset the "diminishing returns" of an oversaturated media market.

As I said before, however; I think it is an interesting question in any eventuality.
 
Gathomas88 said:
Which is leading to an explosion of not only "dark" material for general consumption, but the general level of "darkness" in that material to grow progressively worse over time.

That was kind of my point in the first place.

Maybe this represents a legitimate cultural shift, and maybe it simply represents the results of a jaded society having to up the ante on shock value in order to offset the "diminishing returns" of an oversaturated media market.

As I said before, however; I think it is an interesting question in any eventuality.
Click to expand...

It's interesting for sure, I just don't think it's all that different from the past. We have much more access now, which means that we can see much more ****ed up **** people have created in an unfiltered way. We don't have to wait to go see a horror movie that's been touched by 200 different people; we can peak into the mind of one person and that can be scary. Though, I don't think people are creating in a different way now than people used to in the past.

Oh, and grammar tip, you're incorrectly using the semi-colon. :2razz:
 
Your Star said:
It's interesting for sure, I just don't think it's all that different from the past. We have much more access now, which means that we can see much more ****ed up **** people have created in an unfiltered way. We don't have to wait to go see a horror movie that's been touched by 200 different people; we can peak into the mind of one person and that can be scary. Though, I don't think people are creating in a different way now than people used to in the past.
Click to expand...

Well, again, I think it couple be argued that a lot of things have gotten a bit more "extreme" in general in the last few decades.

Something like the Passion of the Christ, Saving Private Ryan, or Saw, for instance, would've have been unthinkable in the 1950s.

Mainstream audiences simply wouldn't have tolerated it.

Oh, and grammar tip, you're incorrectly using the semi-colon. :2razz:
Click to expand...

I actually had an English professor in college who docked me every time I didn't do it that way.

It's just become a part of my writing style since then. :lol:
 
Gathomas88 said:
Well, again, I think it couple be argued that a lot of things have gotten a bit more "extreme" in general in the last few decades.

Something like the Passion of the Christ, Saving Private Ryan, or Saw, for instance, would've have been unthinkable in the 1950s.

Mainstream audiences simply wouldn't have tolerated it.
Click to expand...

Doesn't mean they wouldn't have secretly liked it, IMO. I think this trend is a good thing, repression in most circumstances is a bad thing.


I actually had an English professor in college who docked me every time I didn't do it that way.

It's just become a part of my writing style since then. :lol:
Click to expand...

That makes no sense. A semi-colon is used to separate two complete sentences, not give a pause when you are directly addressing the reader. Which is what you are basically doing when you use however.

I went to the store, however, I didn't buy anything. Is how it should be.

That's my English professor talking. :lol:
 
Your Star said:
Doesn't mean they wouldn't have secretly liked it, IMO. I think this trend is a good thing, repression in most circumstances is a bad thing.
Click to expand...

Maybe, and maybe not.

Constantly indulging in violence and negative "power fantasies" might not necessarily be healthy in the long run.

Only time will ultimately tell, though.

That makes no sense. A semi-colon is used to separate two complete sentences, not give a pause when you are directly addressing the reader. Which is what you are basically doing when you use however.

I went to the store, however, I didn't buy anything. Is how it should be.

That's my English professor talking. :lol:
Click to expand...

c17.jpg


Kidding! :2razz:

I'll have to do some research on the subject and see if there is any obscure justification for using a semi-colon in that way. I've honestly never really cared to look, and stuck with it out of force of habit more than anything else.

Thanks for bringing it to my attention. :)
 
Gathomas88 said:
Maybe, and maybe not.

Constantly indulging in violence and negative "power fantasies" might not necessarily be healthy in the long run.

Only time will ultimately tell, though.
Click to expand...

The one metric we do have is that actual violence has gone down over the past 50 years. Correlation does not equal causation, but we can safely say this stuff doesn't cause any real world violence.


Kidding! :2razz:

I'll have to do some research on the subject and see if there is any obscure justification for using a semi-colon in that way. I've honestly never really cared to look, and stuck with it out of force of habit more than anything else.

Thanks for bringing it to my attention. :)
Click to expand...

:lol:

All I know is that a semi-colon is used to separate two complete sentences without an and, or a but, or something like that.

Like

Jenny played in the baseball game; she pitched a no-hitter.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom